State of the Community?

[Jedi_Mediator]

I've been away from the JK community in general for a long time--my big gaming/modding days were in my teenage years. But recently I've been taking a peek at the community again and thinking about doing a bit more modding--specifically making maps with interesting features and new "gametypes."

 

So I was wondering, what are things like in the JK community nowadays? Do people still play custom maps? Are mods more common on JK2 than JA, or vice versa? Are people still making maps with the goal of getting them on servers, or just as a form of art? I'd like to know what I'm getting into if I'm going to start mapping again.

 

I've looked around on the JA server list and seen a lot of ffa3, ffa5, etc. I've also seen a lot of servers filled with all bots and no humans. I know this is a pretty old game, so it's natural for players to diminish, but it's clear to see that JKHub is still quite active. I'm just wondering if I can still find that level of activity in the game itself--and if I can find a demand for the type of maps I want to make.

 

I know these are pretty broad questions, and possibly difficult for individuals to answer. Any responses are appreciated. Even if custom maps aren't very popular anymore, I'll probably still do a bit of mapping anyway, just as an artistic outlet. But having your maps actually played is a pretty nice bonus, too.

 

(P.S. - I felt this belonged in this forum, but feel free to move to Modding Discussion if needed.)

[swegmaster]

not many people are doing mapping, because assumably they think its too hard, i'm just starting to learn mapping and listening to the mapping tutorials from the legendary Rich Diesal: https://jkhub.org/mapping/richdiesal/richdiesal.htm 

[minilogoguy18]

Yeah, we need more mappers, I'd definitely could use your help once again with Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight.

[Ping]

People still play ESL 1v1 fairly regularly, check it out here: http://play.eslgaming.com/classicgames/pc/jkja/open/ladder-1on1-saber-europe/rankings/

[eezstreet]

Most people don't map with the intention of their maps being on mainstream servers, they map for a mod.

 

The Dark Forces 2 mod would be a great place to start since most of that architecture is very blocky.

[afi]

I'm mapping for quake live race now which is fun, cause people are actually playing the maps on servers, which never really worked for me in JKA. And if people play custom maps in JK then it's either a personal clan map or stuff like SIth Council, Jedi Council or Jedi's Home so there's not really a demand for new maps.

[~Mortyrshell.]

I've been away from the JK community in general for a long time--my big gaming/modding days were in my teenage years. But recently I've been taking a peek at the community again and thinking about doing a bit more modding--specifically making maps with interesting features and new "gametypes."

 

So I was wondering, what are things like in the JK community nowadays? Do people still play custom maps? Are mods more common on JK2 than JA, or vice versa? Are people still making maps with the goal of getting them on servers, or just as a form of art? I'd like to know what I'm getting into if I'm going to start mapping again.

 

I've looked around on the JA server list and seen a lot of ffa3, ffa5, etc. I've also seen a lot of servers filled with all bots and no humans. I know this is a pretty old game, so it's natural for players to diminish, but it's clear to see that JKHub is still quite active. I'm just wondering if I can still find that level of activity in the game itself--and if I can find a demand for the type of maps I want to make.

 

I know these are pretty broad questions, and possibly difficult for individuals to answer. Any responses are appreciated. Even if custom maps aren't very popular anymore, I'll probably still do a bit of mapping anyway, just as an artistic outlet. But having your maps actually played is a pretty nice bonus, too.

 

(P.S. - I felt this belonged in this forum, but feel free to move to Modding Discussion if needed.)

I'm in pretty much the same situation.  I played countless hours from 2003-2007 and made countless maps, some good and popular, but most garbage.  After coming back a few weeks ago I saw a complete lack of custom maps so decided to start making them again, even if there isn't much demand.  I think there isn't much of a demand due to consolidation of the few players into a few popular servers.  They can't afford to reject people who don't have the maps.

 

I make maps now as a form of art.  I find myself spending much more time in GTKRadiant than in JKA.  My first few maps were just uploaded, but I don't expect many downloads due to their simplicity.  My maps are made for BaseJKA (grapple really ruins them) as I despise the inaccuracy of JAPlus hits and damages, but I've only seen one server running Base which actually had people in it.

 

As for the community:  I've had a good laugh at the old school issues still being present.  Lamers are still frowned upon and even kicked/banned even though the populations can't afford it.  KTs are a hoot to still see.  Elitism and online egos (OMG I'll change my name to Padawan while training so as not to ruin my good name!) are still present even though they are unjustified with the lack of competition.  It's like nobody has grown up and matured even though the majority of players I talk to have been playing for a decade or have just returned.

 

Overall it is still a good game.  I just wish this had taken off as an esport.  Theoretically it still could as it is a unique game.  There are no modern alternatives with this level of skill requirement (and lightsabers!).

 

And if people play custom maps in JK then it's either a personal clan map or stuff like SIth Council, Jedi Council or Jedi's Home so there's not really a demand for new maps.

Pretty much this.

[zＯrg]

I would like to play Naboo Hills (those were the days...) for T/FFA again and Destroyer for Siege... everyday!

[Ramikad]

I would like to play Naboo Hills (those were the days...) for T/FFA again and Destroyer for Siege... everyday!

 

Ah, the good old days... I used to fly and hide my ship in the small lake, but the Targeting Computers of the other players would still pick me up.

[Circa]

We used to have an abundance of mappers throughout the community until the last few years. Now it's extremely rare to see any at all. This is one reason many mods are at a standstill because mods need maps and the mappers to create them.

 

There are a few mods here that could really use some more mappers.

 

• Jedi Knight: Enhanced is one, especially for the JKA side. We were wanting to create a couple more missions for this project.

• The Dark Forces 2 mod was really needing some mappers, as that's it's main focus, to recreate those levels from the game.

• The Star Wars Saga mod (my personal favorite and nearly dead project) really needs some mappers that are active to help me out with it.

 

and a few others.

 

As far as the community goes: it's 2016. Jk2 was released in 2002, JKA in 2003. It's a miracle there are any servers at all with people in them. But there are still a bunch that have fairly constant activity. And they have to be really picky these days with what maps they use, because if a new player tries to connect while they're on a custom map, then that's one less prospective recruit for their clan, or frequent visitor. Some clans and groups still use them, but it's when a lot of members are online for an event or just wanting to mess around in other maps.

 

My clan usually played on custom maps more than base ones, but we also weren't too focused on recruiting or inviting new players.

[~Mortyrshell.]

Making maps is easy. Making good maps is not, and requires passion. It's difficult to have passion knowing nobody will play your map because they're afraid to leave out the few people who play this game.

 

I speak from experience. I used to play a lot and made plenty of maps in the old days. Now I can't get past the basics and leave everything lazily unfinished.

 

I also see a lot of servers these days don't allow downloads. What's up with that?

[Ramikad]

Making maps is easy. Making good maps is not, and requires passion. It's difficult to have passion knowing nobody will play your map because they're afraid to leave out the few people who play this game. I speak from experience. I used to play a lot and made plenty of maps in the old days. Now I can't get past the basics and leave everything lazily unfinished. I also see a lot of servers these days don't allow downloads. What's up with that?

 

I can think of a couple of things concerning auto-downloads, namely the ridiculous download speed (unless that was on my end only), and that (unless it's somehow been fixed) apparently you can get the Rcon password of a server if its auto-download is active.

[afi]

Yes, you can download the rcon password from the server. But that should be fixed on most mods. Similar reason why voting is disabled on many servers.

[Merek]

not many people are doing mapping, because assumably they think its too hard, i'm just starting to learn mapping and listening to the mapping tutorials from the legendary Rich Diesal: https://jkhub.org/mapping/richdiesal/richdiesal.htm

Depends on who you ask, for some it may be they just lack the time to learn all the skills and techniques to make even a small map. I mean GTKRadiant doesn't exactly make anything you do in it to be easy especially with all the bugs you're going to encounter. We just need a new, better mapping editor.

[Archangel35757]

Has anyone tried to use the 3ds Max .MAP exporter? In regards to modelling things were close to dead, but @@DT85 and I started to work on fixing the 3ds Max dotXSI exporter (as the Softimage released version was dorked/broken and unable to export valid animations; and the valid Raven exporter only worked for Max5) ...but we finally got the exporter fixed... and I can see a revival of modelling/animation. @@mrwonko made Blender exporters as well. There's a coding team still working to enhance GtKRadiant and with the new mapping code that @@UniqueOne is doing in his warzome mod, and @@Xycaleth working on the new OpenJK renderer (Rend2, normal mapping, etc)... I think there will begin a new rennaisance of mapping-- even if it's just people pushing their limits and artistic ability.

[Circa]

People have been making maps in Radiant for years. It's not hard, it just takes motivation to learn how to use it to get what you want, just like any other program. 

 

I think the main reason people don't want to map anymore is because either everyone expects to see a modern-2016-looking map in this old old game, and either give critiques in that regard, OR the people learning to map expect to be able to make something like that, and simply can't.

 

Getting JKA to look better is a good thing and all, but I'm always left asking if it's worth waiting for. I've heard so many modders leave because they're waiting for others to make JKA look like a modern game before they make any more content. It's silly to me. Just make content for the game as is, or move on to something else.

 

(that turned into more of a rant than I wanted)

[SomaZ]

One of the problems I ran into was the lack of good tutorials for using models in gtk radiant. I haven't found any tutorial about limitations or pro and contras for md3 or ase models. Right now its just trial and error for me porting my map. AshuraDX helped me with some good tips to get some things working. Like exporting brushes as ase and check their material entries to find out how to use shaders on ase models (though I'm not sure if this works as intended in my case, but I will check that). But I can understand that this is kind of off-putting for someone who want's to start mapping. Also because there are so many map editors that are much easier to use and allow much easier fine tuning for the final result. (e.g. UE4, Unity, Cryengine)

 

The reason for me, why I started modding for this old game, is the rend2 development. I played a lot of JK2 and JKA as a teenager and I'd love to see, younger people enjoying these games as much as I did. Graphics are a major part of convincing people to play something. I saw that the development for rend2 was cancelled and wanted to enhance this. I'm always looking for a good challenge. Now that Xycaleth is working on it again, I can't wait for the finished renderer. So I started helping him in multiple ways. Bug reports, essential feature requests and right now porting one of my small ue4 maps with rend2 support. I also started working on the vanilla parity of rend2 (my refractive shading prototype).

 

So, enough of me. Main reason I see for the "revival" is OpenJK. Multi-Platform (damn, this runs on my raspi3 ), lots of fixes and a very nice and helpful community behind it. Modeling for this game has never been easier, since the blender and 3dsmax plugins are updated kind of regularly, tools that convert fbx to md3 and so on. Imo mapping is not very popular because of nearly all the tutorials (at least on this site) are for sabers or characters. The GTK Radiant tutorials I found on the internet, are horribly readable. Nearly all of them look like from the 90th (and that's probably because they are). I'd love to see some well organized tutorials regarding mapping with focus on using models for details or other stuff (Maybe I will make one, when my port is finished).

 

Nevertheless, community is going well and is growing (that's how I feel about it). And welcome back to JK modding.

[zＯrg]

If you're looking for some maps, I made a few long time ago. Maybe they can give you some ideas. They aren't popular, but original:

• Sigma: The Combined World (1.1) : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/57087/
  
• Forgotten Imperial Outpost : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/56306/
  
• Wasteland... : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/61028/
  
• Silent Duel : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/76593/
  
• Small Valley : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Duel/65868/
  
• Island Duel : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Multiple%20Gamemodes/61471/
  
• Glassmap (v2) : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/75755/
  
• The Lighthouse : http://mrwonko.de/jk3files/Jedi%20Academy/Maps/Free%20For%20All/65059/ [PS. it's my best map to this day]
  

 

I remember my first map in Radiant. Just two rooms, one placed higher than the other, connected with a corridor, one room has a retracting floor trap. And no lighting. That's it. Radiant isn't that bad. Scripts and lighting - that's hard to comprehend. Scripting is even meaner than shaders.

[MagSul]

I'd love to see some well organized tutorials regarding mapping with focus on using models for details or other stuff (Maybe I will make one, when my port is finished).

 

More mapping tutorials is never a bad thing! 

[Archangel35757]

what we need are "Next-Gen" mapping techniques for Rend2. Just little small maps that get across the technique. Also, some techniques using @@UniqueOne 's enhancements in his warzone coding mod...

[Acrobat]

It sucks we lost so many tutorials and old threads when map-craft went down. Used to be able to find just about anything on that site.

[Circa]

Can't you still see them on archive.org?

[Lazarus]

I've been away from the JK community in general for a long time--my big gaming/modding days were in my teenage years. But recently I've been taking a peek at the community again and thinking about doing a bit more modding--specifically making maps with interesting features and new "gametypes."

 

So I was wondering, what are things like in the JK community nowadays? Do people still play custom maps? Are mods more common on JK2 than JA, or vice versa? Are people still making maps with the goal of getting them on servers, or just as a form of art? I'd like to know what I'm getting into if I'm going to start mapping again.

 

I've looked around on the JA server list and seen a lot of ffa3, ffa5, etc. I've also seen a lot of servers filled with all bots and no humans. I know this is a pretty old game, so it's natural for players to diminish, but it's clear to see that JKHub is still quite active. I'm just wondering if I can still find that level of activity in the game itself--and if I can find a demand for the type of maps I want to make.

 

I know these are pretty broad questions, and possibly difficult for individuals to answer. Any responses are appreciated. Even if custom maps aren't very popular anymore, I'll probably still do a bit of mapping anyway, just as an artistic outlet. But having your maps actually played is a pretty nice bonus, too.

 

(P.S. - I felt this belonged in this forum, but feel free to move to Modding Discussion if needed.)

 

Hey Mediator, long time no see. I hope you pop by more frequent!!! Long time since map-craft