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Mert-K

Is it weird to lose interest in the series?

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I'm not sure how to feel about the franchise anymore. Ever since Disney bought it and all the decisions that followed, I'm losing appetite to the series to the point where I have no more desire to go to The Last Jedi. Is it just me?

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I'm not sure how to feel about the franchise anymore. Ever since Disney bought it and all the decisions that followed, I'm losing appetite to the series to the point where I have no more desire to go to The Last Jedi. Is it just me?

No, it's not just you. I myself don't have an interest in seeing it and would rather hear reviews from some who would as well as clips on the internet. If I do watch it, it'll be either on DVD, Blu-Ray or some movie website.

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I, myself, would like to see the Last Jedi, but I can see why someone wouldn't. TFA was crap IMO, Rogue One was a little better - I actually found some parts to be quite funny (I think that's what TFA was missing, too serious, no comedy relief as well as no original plot.)

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No, it's not just you. I myself don't have an interest in seeing it and would rather hear reviews from some who would as well as clips on the internet. If I do watch it, it'll be either on DVD, Blu-Ray or some movie website.

You’d rather hear someone else’s opinion before deciding on your own first? That pretty much guarantees you will share the first opinion you hear.

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You’d rather hear someone else’s opinion before deciding on your own first? That pretty much guarantees you will share the first opinion you hear.

No, I mean hearing how it's received, then deciding for myself.

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I'm a Star Wars fan through 'n' through, so I'll always have a desire for the franchise, however it's received elsewhere, 'cos it's in my blood (personal reasons). But the one thing that does annoy me, is all this political correct BS. As soon as that comes into play, it downgrades anything it touches. I wasn't that big of a fan of TFA, overall (it doesn't even hold a candle to the Prequels.. Or the Original Trilogy, for that matter), due to its un-originality.

Having said that though, it has increasingly grown on me over the past coupla' months. Mainly due to the back-story and the events leading up to TFA. If you've read any of the Star Wars Aftermath books (particularly "Empire's End"), you'll know.. As it goes into details about "Operation Cinder" and the "Battle of Jakku". Which is another reason why I'm incredibly excited for Battlefront II (which is only about 8 days away, now). There's a number of videos on YouTube, that summarise those events ('Star Wars Explained' is a good start).. But overall, that's actually made me appreciate TFA, much more. But I'm booking my TLJ opening night tickets, tomorrow. I've become quite hyped for the new movie as of late, especially after reading so many theories, online about who such and such a character is, as well as having my own theories. But I do firmly believe I know who/what Snoke is.

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I'm a Star Wars fan through 'n' through, so I'll always have a desire for the franchise, however it's received elsewhere, 'cos it's in my blood (personal reasons). But the one thing that does annoy me, is all this political correct BS. As soon as that comes into play, it downgrades anything it touches. I wasn't that big of a fan of TFA, overall (it doesn't even hold a candle to the Prequels.. Or the Original Trilogy, for that matter), due to its un-originality.

Having said that though, it has increasingly grown on me over the past coupla' months. Mainly due to the back-story and the events leading up to TFA. If you've read any of the Star Wars Aftermath books (particularly "Empire's End"), you'll know.. As it goes into details about "Operation Cinder" and the "Battle of Jakku". Which is another reason why I'm incredibly excited for Battlefront II (which is only about 8 days away, now). There's a number of videos on YouTube, that summarise those events ('Star Wars Explained' is a good start).. But overall, that's actually made me appreciate TFA, much more. But I'm booking my TLJ opening night tickets, tomorrow. I've become quite hyped for the new movie as of late, especially after reading so many theories, online about who such and such a character is, as well as having my own theories. But I do firmly believe I know who/what Snoke is.

Admittedly, some things actually grew on me too from TFA. I used to think the Crossguard Lightsaber was illogical, but after some of the schematics were released, it made sense to me on how it could work. Hell, I'd say that it would work for both the Expanded Universe and Normal Continuity. The X-Wings were another thing that grew on me, albeit I think they should've been the T-85's we keep hearing about instead of the 70s as I think the T-70 should've taken on a hybrid appearance of Ralph McQuarrie's concept art and the final product T-65, with the the T-85's taking on the appearance we know the T-70 for. Also, the T-70s should've been named the T-75, IMO. Finally, I'll say that originally I thought Kylo Ren was a brat, but then he became someone from these movies I might actually sympathize with and like.

 

But even those three weren't enough to stop me from losing my interest. Not to mention, yearly Star Wars stuff gets old real fast. Think of it as it becoming the Call of Duty for movies. You get tired of the series after a while and the series as a whole burns out.

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Used to be a avid fan of the series. Ever since the Old Republic was ousted by Disney, I have lost a lot of my interest in the series. I don't hate TFA, I just think it's a little bland. 

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I stick to a restricted selection from the EU, or Legends if you prefer the new labeling - we're still free to enjoy the old content over the new. Haven't watched Rogue One, and I'm not planning to, but TFA just didn't stick with me, and I don't expect the future movies to do either.

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I'm fond of Star Wars mainly for nostalgia reasons. When I was a kid, I loved it because of the cool, flashy firefights and laser swords. As a result, I became convinced that Star Wars was cool, at an age when it's very easy to become convinced of such things. So I still like it today.

 

But as I've gotten older, seen good movies and read good books, and started my own journey as a writer, there is also a part of me that has come to see past the cool battle scenes--and realize that, beyond the "cool" factor, the franchise doesn't have much substance. Sure, the story is okay, and the amount of world-building is certainly impressive, but a lot of the characters and concepts presented are pretty simplistic, and therefore not as satisfying or compelling as they could be. It's true that I've found a lot more substance in certain branches of the franchise, such as the novels--Matthew Stover's novelization of RotS makes Anakin's switch to the dark side MUCH more believable than the movies do--but since the franchise started with the movies, I think the movies should be the reference point for judging the franchise as a whole. And from a writing standpoint, the movies are just okay. Definitely cool, and kind of entertaining if you don't think too much, but not very compelling or satisfying in terms of storytelling.

 

Even so, I think I will always be fond of SW. It's associated with my childhood, so it will always feel like a safe, familiar haven to return to. I can compare it to learning languages. I'm decent at speaking/understanding Spanish, but I'll never understand it the way I understand English. Just as I will always feel most comfortable with English, since it was my first language, I will always feel most "at home" with SW (and Pokèmon, and Harry Potter), no matter how many incredible movies or books I experience later in life.

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Sure, the story is okay, and the amount of world-building is certainly impressive, but a lot of the characters and concepts presented are pretty simplistic, and therefore not as satisfying or compelling as they could be. It's true that I've found a lot more substance in certain branches of the franchise, such as the novels--Matthew Stover's novelization of RotS makes Anakin's switch to the dark side MUCH more believable than the movies do--but since the franchise started with the movies, I think the movies should be the reference point for judging the franchise as a whole. And from a writing standpoint, the movies are just okay. Definitely cool, and kind of entertaining if you don't think too much, but not very compelling or satisfying in terms of storytelling.

 

I think your analysis is fundamentally wrong. There's a beauty in simplicity and Star Wars is without doubt one of the best examples of classic story telling in the 20th century, that's why it's universally liked across the globe. It's got the key story points, which many franchises lack, that resonate within people no matter the race or culture. I know this must be cliché to a lot of people here, but if you haven't I recommend you to read Campbell's book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" or at least see a quick summary of it. It's a book that explains certain archetypes that are common in western mythology and how some of the greatest stories follow this structure. 

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I, myself, would like to see the Last Jedi, but I can see why someone wouldn't. TFA was crap IMO, Rogue One was a little better - I actually found some parts to be quite funny (I think that's what TFA was missing, too serious, no comedy relief as well as no original plot.)

The Force Awakens literally feels like they ripped the story off of the older movies  <_<

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My interest dropped sometime between TFA announcement and TFA release. I didn't want to go to that movie, and boy I wish I didn't.

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I think your analysis is fundamentally wrong. There's a beauty in simplicity and Star Wars is without doubt one of the best examples of classic story telling in the 20th century, that's why it's universally liked across the globe. It's got the key story points, which many franchises lack, that resonate within people no matter the race or culture. I know this must be cliché to a lot of people here, but if you haven't I recommend you to read Campbell's book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" or at least see a quick summary of it. It's a book that explains certain archetypes that are common in western mythology and how some of the greatest stories follow this structure.

 

I skimmed over a summary of Cambell's book, so correct me if I misunderstood anything. I've heard ideas before that are similar to his, in other sources about archetypes that were probably influenced by his work. I found it particularly interesting that Lucas apparently acknowledged Campbell's influence on the SW franchise. The story certainly follows the "monomyth" pattern that Campbell describes.

 

In my opinion, as an admittedly young and inexperienced writer, is that 1) it is impossible to write a story without archetypes, and 2) there are creative and un-creative ways to use them. I recognize that SW uses archetypes to connect with its audience (Luke as the Reluctant Hero, Obi-Wan as the Wizard in the sequels, etc.), and I don't fault it for that. I just think it wasn't terribly creative in the way it used those archetypes. It played them pretty "straight," so to speak, throughout most of the movies, and I didn't see a whole lot of individuality in the characters, beyond their archetypal roles. It's fine for a character to be an archetype, but if they don't have many unique traits beyond that, they end up kind of boring. Luke, for example, doesn't have much of a personality beyond his "Reluctant Hero" tendencies.

 

As an example, imagine if Disney spent tens of millions of dollars to create a movie called "The Knight and the Princess," featuring an all-star cast and spectacular special effects, and also featuring--you guessed it--a knight and a princess. For the sake of connecting with its audience, it uses archetypes we're very familiar with, especially in Western culture: a courageous knight who sets out on a journey to defeat a vicious monster and rescue the captive princess. Audiences will understand the story very quickly (which is a good thing), because they're so well-accustomed to those archetypes. But this strength is also the story's weakness: we've heard this story so many times that it will be boring, unless something creative is done with the plot or characters to set it apart. Without a creative twist, any discerning viewer will see it as "just another fairy tale." Maybe there is some value in the simplicity of such a story, but is it really worth millions of dollars to keep telling the same story, without variation, over and over again?

 

It's that variation that's necessary to add interest to a story, to make it compelling, and to give it an identity of its own. Do you see this kind of variation in the characters and story of the SW franchise? Or do you see it as valuable specifically because it seems to stick so close to its archetypes, without adding much variation?

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It's that variation that's necessary to add interest to a story, to make it compelling, and to give it an identity of its own. Do you see this kind of variation in the characters and story of the SW franchise? Or do you see it as valuable specifically because it seems to stick so close to its archetypes, without adding much variation?

 

I do think it's valuable that it sticks to the archetypes without a quirky twist. Episode IV is a classic fantasy film that was created as a response to the nihilistic mood that the industry had in the 70s. In a way, Star Wars proved at the time that a fantasy film could be successful. 

 

I always try to see these things from an historic perspective. When people get tired of classical storytelling, they tend to create stories with 'twists', and when those become tiresome, people go back to producing classic stories. Think about this, would Shrek be considered as much an original masterpiece (as it was in the 2000s) if it was released now? Every movie nowadays seems to try to 'subvert' the classics, even Frozen went this way with the 'not so good charming prince', so I would think that if a movie, like the example you mentioned, was released now that had an heroic character on a journey, similar to the stories of old, it would have the potential to be very well received. And following the same logic, I don't think the same story would have been received well at the end of the 90s. It all depends on the cultural context. 

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I'll only have real interest when Takeshi Kitano or Coppola make a Ben Kenobi movie with minimal star wars tropes, just him living as a recluse and hanging out with Qui Gon Jinn's force ghost, maybe taking a road trip to visit Yoda...all the fanboys would of course go to war with their keyboards on the internets.

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I do think it's valuable that it sticks to the archetypes without a quirky twist. Episode IV is a classic fantasy film that was created as a response to the nihilistic mood that the industry had in the 70s. In a way, Star Wars proved at the time that a fantasy film could be successful. 

 

I always try to see these things from an historic perspective. When people get tired of classical storytelling, they tend to create stories with 'twists', and when those become tiresome, people go back to producing classic stories. Think about this, would Shrek be considered as much an original masterpiece (as it was in the 2000s) if it was released now? Every movie nowadays seems to try to 'subvert' the classics, even Frozen went this way with the 'not so good charming prince', so I would think that if a movie, like the example you mentioned, was released now that had an heroic character on a journey, similar to the stories of old, it would have the potential to be very well received. And following the same logic, I don't think the same story would have been received well at the end of the 90s. It all depends on the cultural context.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that about the cultural context of the first film. Also interesting to think of the very act of subverting clichès as a clichè of its own. From this perspective, returning to classic storytelling would, in some cases, be more original than coming up with another quirky twist.

 

But I do think there's a difference between being quirky and writing archetypes with depth and complexity. You don't have to subvert a character type to make the character interesting. It seems to me that Obi-Wan in the sequels is an example of failing to add complexity to an archetypal character. Every human alive has at least one flaw in their personality, abilities, etc. Giving characters flaws in stories, then, is an important part of making them relatable and believable. But I can't see any flaws in Obi-Wan's character. Instead, he seems to be little more than the archetypal Wise Old Man, as described by Carl Jung. Lucas wouldn't have needed to mess with the archetype to make him interesting (making him the Wise Old Burglar, or Wise Handicapped Man, for instance). It would have been interesting enough to add flaws within the constraints of the archetype instead--maybe he's distracted by regrets, or pacifistic to the point of being passive, etc. These things would add detail without subverting any archetypes. But Obi-Wan in the sequels seems to be just a cardboard cutout of his archetypal role--no more and no less. To me, that makes him less than interesting.

 

Do you see more depth in the SW characters than I do? Just to reiterate, I can accept that there's value in the franchise sticking close to the archetypes it's chosen. It only bothers me if a character isn't given additional detail, beyond their surface-level archetypal role.

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I'm fond of Star Wars mainly for nostalgia reasons. When I was a kid, I loved it because of the cool, flashy firefights and laser swords. As a result, I became convinced that Star Wars was cool, at an age when it's very easy to become convinced of such things. So I still like it today.

 

But as I've gotten older, seen good movies and read good books, and started my own journey as a writer, there is also a part of me that has come to see past the cool battle scenes--and realize that, beyond the "cool" factor, the franchise doesn't have much substance. Sure, the story is okay, and the amount of world-building is certainly impressive, but a lot of the characters and concepts presented are pretty simplistic, and therefore not as satisfying or compelling as they could be. It's true that I've found a lot more substance in certain branches of the franchise, such as the novels--Matthew Stover's novelization of RotS makes Anakin's switch to the dark side MUCH more believable than the movies do--but since the franchise started with the movies, I think the movies should be the reference point for judging the franchise as a whole. And from a writing standpoint, the movies are just okay. Definitely cool, and kind of entertaining if you don't think too much, but not very compelling or satisfying in terms of storytelling.

 

Even so, I think I will always be fond of SW. It's associated with my childhood, so it will always feel like a safe, familiar haven to return to. I can compare it to learning languages. I'm decent at speaking/understanding Spanish, but I'll never understand it the way I understand English. Just as I will always feel most comfortable with English, since it was my first language, I will always feel most "at home" with SW (and Pokèmon, and Harry Potter), no matter how many incredible movies or books I experience later in life.

 

I think that's also what disgusts me in a way. Star Wars is cemented in my childhood and Disney now has me by balls due to nostalgia. I'm fond of what it was, the EU/Legends and I want to let Star Wars be just that. It is a nice world, that is sadly tainted.

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Sorry to necro the thread, but just my two-pence:

I was born in the early 90's, so i missed the OT hype, not to mention that my country was in the Soviet Union just a couple of years prior, so the hype was mostly wasted anyway.

In the mid-80's and the 90's, when western (pop)culture poured in en force, it was easy to jump on the hype train for anything that was western, especially if it was something extremely popular already, so a lot of the older kids got into SW, and even if you didn't see ANH, you knew who Darth Vader was, even if only by appearance. Additional stuff (books, comics, audioplays) was only available in the bigger countries, like Russia or Ukraine (maybe the former Easter Block countries), whereas in Moldova, we mostly had just the movies and knock-off toys. So my love for the old EU came in the late 2000s, when i was in mid/ highschool, and it mostly came from videogames and the internet, not the comics or novels (this is the reason why i don't have an issue with Luke being the way he is in the NT).

When TPM came out, it felt like some kind of blessing, because we, the kids that missed the OT, had a chance to legitly become part of the crowd (that's why i liked, and still like TPM, even though it's actually a rather dull movie). Then came Clones, and i was 'bought' but the clone armors (as i got older, i got more and more disgusted with the movie because of the terrible cgi's, and obviously the boring plot, and the clone action only beginning at the end of the movie, and lasting only for some 10 minutes, if not less - the cg TCW annoyed me because the clones were drama-queens, and the series focused more on Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, and Ahsoka than on the clones, i wanted something closer to Republic Commando, focused on the clones, and showing exactly why the clones are supperior to the droids and are supposed to be pro-soldiers). RotS was alright, but the pacing felt off, and the cgi's were again an issue for me, plus some of the characters' choices were dumb as fuck!

The New Trilogy, i don't like. On the one hand, i was glad that they moved away from excess cgi toward real props and more balanced use of cgis, i was also glad to hear technobabble (can't have sci-fi without it!), but the whole recycling of the OT, and the overal blandness, sjw propaganda, and pointless fan-service are just repulsive.

Rebels and Rogue One i liked, because they felt more like the OT. Yes, they have their faults, no point denying it, but they were still better than the NT.

As to Disney buying the franchise, yes, it was a factor that pushed me away from it, but i tried to console myself with the thought that disney has, and still does, deliver actually entertaining and quality-made products. Problem here is that these products have to be original-made, and not bought from someone else, because otherwise, as someone already mentioned here, they just turn it into some bland pile of crap. And disney is a megacorporation bent on taking over the world, just look at all the proof, both in the media-market, real-estate, and other domains. So once disney bought SW, nuked the old EU (even though i only cared for a part of it), and started to deliver products of mediocre (the NT) or questionable (BF2 with all the scandals) quality, i just lost my interest.

To me, Star Wars was not just cool, it was a way to belong to a group (something that i've had trouble doing since i was a teen), and the whole spiritualist conflict between the jedi and the sith made the franchise stand out from among other sci-fi-fantasy mixtures because it was done in a very smart and original way (no technomagic, no god-level magic powers, no orcs and elves!), not to mention that i always was a sucker for spiritualist topics and philosophy (which is the main reason i love kotor2). The new direction does nothing for me, and frankly, not even the old EU is as fun anymore, because if you are to look at it, it's actually really repetitive - the sith want to take over the galaxy, they want to destroy the republic and the jedi, they create interstellar empires, the jedi fight and (in 98% of the cases) defeat them. Anything beyond that is either one-shot (doc Aphra), unpopular (Yuzhaan Vong), or irrelevant. Most other characters (i.e. non-jedi/ non-sith) are only important if they have any kind of connection to the said jedi/ sith, but otherwise, only exist to create a semblance of a functional universe. This is also something that made the OT so great - the universe didn't revolve around force-users, even though they were a big deal.

Well, time to move on.

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the cg TCW annoyed me because the clones were drama-queens, and the series focused more on Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, and Ahsoka than on the clones, i wanted something closer to Republic Commando, focused on the clones, and showing exactly why the clones are supperior to the droids and are supposed to be pro-soldiers).

 

Have you ever watched clone wars 2003 serie ? It may fill that void for you.

CloneWarslogo.JPG

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Have you ever watched clone wars 2003 serie ? It may fill that void for you.

CloneWarslogo.JPG

Yes indeed, i love the traditionally animated Clone Wars :)

But it's barely enough, if you think about it :P

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Some of you have very interesting personal stories that I would like to go through but at the moment I will be focusing on my own.

I have lost my interest in Star Wars a long time ago, probably way before many of you did. For me it was around the time of the Prequels.
Now I have to admit that I was a bit biased and had expectations of how the prequels would be like, especially after I knew about the Thrawn saga. I had hoped that that the Clone Masters which Zahn introduced were the main antagonists and that we would see Z95-Headhunters, Victory class star destroyers and Dreadnoughts, and that Anakin Skywalker would be revealed to be a young Republic navy starfighter pilot.

Of course this could never happen but still I was not happy when Anakin was introduced and that we had Tantooine appear yet again. (for a backwater planet a lot of galaxy altering events take place here or individuals come from it).

What stories we did get in the Prequel Trilogy was not much to my taste as I felt that the movies pandered to much to children with silly characters and antics. I always felt that the movies should primarily to teens, young adults, and up.
I also found some of the dialogue really cringe worthy.

The Clone Wars despite playing an important role in the movie sage were just not my thing and as there was more and more focus on this part of Star Wars I started to drift away from it, looking into older Star Wars material.

At the time I had already been reading some of the comics Dark Horse had been publishing including the Classic Star Wars re releases and of course the Thrawn trilogy comic variations and I played games like the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games and Yoda Stories. Sadly I could never get into X Wing and Tie Fighter (I own X Wing Alliance but have never played it)

I now started to look into other pre 1999 material such as the West End RPG modules and other books. I am actually kind of disappointed that I checked out the Han Solo Adventures by Brian Daley only a few years ago instead of a decade or fifteen years ago. Good thing they still hold up.
I am kind of curious now about the non official Hungarian Han Solo books that according to Hungarian readers are just as good as the Brian Daley ones.. (they were published by a Hungarian publisher that was holding the Star Wars book license and who made use of a loophole in the contract)

The two Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic games were sort of the last Star Wars gasps for me, these days whenever I read or play Star Wars it is usual more than a decade or two old, or even older.

What does Star Wars mean for me? Well I did grew up watching the movies during my pre teens, several years after Return of the Jedi had already been released, and while I loved the movies for the adventure and the action and the space battles it did not have such an impact on me as it had on some of the people here, for example regarding spirituality.

Actually I have always been more of a Trekker (I know fighting words here on this forum) than a Warser but I always respected Star Wars for the entertainment it brought and I always wished that Star Trek was as well supported regarding merchandise and video games like Star Wars was. Star Trek has some good stuff of its own now but not in the quantities of classic Star Wars.

I have watched Star Wars The Force Awakens and Rogue One together with my sister who did watch the original movies in the theaters but I have always been a more hardcore nerd than her and my brother who never were that interested in the franchise other than the movies.


Edit: the franchise, both old and new does suffer from being somewhat formulaic. A lot of storylines being about the Jedi or the Sith, and before that the various Imperial Remnants and the occasional super weapon.
The Old Republic sometimes seems to be that on steroids.

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