Jedi: Fallen Order

[Hudaw]

JKA's saber-to-saber combat isn't good from a design perspective. There's no way to communicate to the player HOW it works except by a little bit of patience and a little bit of luck, all things equal. Now that may not be the case upon deeper inspection, but the system isn't actually explained to the player, and that's where it really fails. Because you can't explain it. Replicating that now would just lead to a lot of frustration. You can't put mechanics in the hands of players when you're not going to explain how they work. 

I'll probably play JFO once, but it doesn't engage me that much. It looks like it'll be a four-hour game like TFU. That doesn't really interest me that much. 

But to hear people thundering on as though Disney looked down and said "NO DISMEMBERMENT" is absolute insanity. There are exactly two Star Wars games with consistent dismemberment, and they're both TFU games. Even in JKA it's sporadic. The idea that this game needs dismemberment to be good is an incredibly shallow thought. Dismemberment won't save this game. 

[Noodle]

But to hear people thundering on as though Disney looked down and said "NO DISMEMBERMENT" is absolute insanity. There are exactly two Star Wars games with consistent dismemberment, and they're both TFU games. Even in JKA it's sporadic. The idea that this game needs dismemberment to be good is an incredibly shallow thought. Dismemberment won't save this game. 

 

I agree, even in the films lightsabers only dismember in crucial parts (mostly duels), when you see Luke striking Jabba's thugs you don't see limbs flying around, nor in TCW when the separatists are slashing through clones.

[dg1995]

I don't think JFO will be a 4 hour game because this game has been in development for 3-4 years.(In contrast to TFU 2 that had less than 1 year development probably due to Lucasarts losing a lot of money for FRD Battlefront 3 and Indiana Jones and the Staff Of Kings PS3/Xbox 360 that both were canceled)

 

As for dismemberment it makes me laugh that people say "Jedi Knight 2 and JA had dismemberment !" because dismemberment in these games are as unrealistic as hell.

[ShakeThatSalt]

Looks potentially promising for a single-player game story-wise. The combat on the other hand is kind of a big yikes... 

 

I'll probably still pick it up though if the reviews on the story are decent. 

[dg1995]

If they used the JA combat then the whole media and gamers would bash it for being unfair and cheap by today's standards.(In JA , ai was also pretty cheap and used one hit kill moves by reading the players input.)

 

Even the multiplayer of JA was as unbalanced as hell which is why the community of JA prefer to play movie battles 2 instead of JA multiplayer.

[Circa]

I think if you go into it not expecting it to be a new Jedi Knight game with similar combat, you'll enjoy it. Unless you're one of those that instantly hates anything Star Wars created after 2005.

 

I think it looks really cool. They said it's not as linear as the videos had shown, but obviously it'll still be fairly linear compared to a full open world game. Looking forward to it.

[General Howard]

Personally, I'm actually looking forward to the combat, for once. The fact that we're actually gonna get a combat system that actually shows a hit connector/detector, instead of it just looking like the weapons clash and connect.
You'd have thought that games with any sort of respectable combat system, would have this sort of feature implemented by default, considering we're in 2019, now.

But the footage they showed of Cal, duelling with the NEW Purge Trooper and the weapons actually connecting properly, gives me a lot of hope for lightsaber duels in the game and what it means for the future of STAR WARS games that include lightsaber combat/duels.

[Mizore]

I think if you go into it not expecting it to be a new Jedi Knight game with similar combat, you'll enjoy it. Unless you're one of those that instantly hates anything Star Wars created after 2005.

 

I do not expect a Jedi Knight combat, but I would like it, because it is still one of the best melee combat systems to date.

[dg1995]

At very least we should be grateful that Star Wars is getting a new Jedi action game. SW could end up like other franchises that won't ever get any proper video games anymore.(For example Indiana Jones , Dune , 007 , Star Trek etc.)

[dg1995]

A new gameplay video is out.(Just search since I don't wanna look it)

 

BTW those people that are just calling this game's lightsaber combat awful remind me of those OT fans that love to hate every SW thing that came after 1983.(But at least they are better than those other guys that wanted to play as a Hutt instead of a white male human.)

[GLTh3Pr0]

(But at least they are better than those other guys that wanted to play as a Hutt instead of a human white male .)

 

There's no reason to mock people just because they want to play an alien for once.

[Mizore]

BTW those people that are just calling this game's lightsaber combat awful remind me of those OT fans that love to hate every SW thing that came after 1983.(But at least they are better than those other guys that wanted to play as a Hutt instead of a white male human.)

 

I don't think it's bad, but I wanted them to based on Jedi Academy lightsaber combat. But it seems that Jedi Academy is already too old unfortunately.

[dg1995]

JA combat works well when you are fighting lightsaber wielding enemies. But JFO is set between episodes 3 and 4.(Dark Times) The time where the heroes should fight stormtroopers 99 percent of the time since Jedis and dark jedis are rare in that era.

 

-Imo JA combat isn't a good when you are fighting stormtroopers because majority of the time stormtroopers just stand in 1 place and shoot.

Why they just stand and shoot ? That's because if they had more movements getting them would have been too annoying.(Then you would have stormtroopers keep firing at you while running backwards which would look stupid.)

 

-Also button mashing lightsaber combat(Which was in Episode 1 & 3 games and TFU 1&2) works better when fighting stormtroopers in Jedi Action games:

 

1.You don't have to aim your blows to actually hit enemies. When you are in range, the playable character can blow the attack without any problem.(In JA sometimes attacking a standing stormtrooper is a little annoying since you just want to cut them like butter and your attacks may not hit them.)

2.Button mashing lightsaber combat also has faster attacks which is an advantage.(In JA there were some times when the stormtroopers instantly killed me for firing at the same time that I pressed the attack button.)

[Mizore]

JA combat works well when you are fighting lightsaber wielding enemies. But JFO is set between episodes 3 and 4.(Dark Times) The time where the heroes should fight stormtroopers 99 percent of the time since Jedis and dark jedis are rare in that era.

 

-Imo JA combat isn't a good when you are fighting stormtroopers because majority of the time stormtroopers just stand in 1 place and shoot.

Why they just stand and shoot ? That's because if they had more movements getting them would have been too annoying.(Then you would have stormtroopers keep firing at you while running backwards which would look stupid.)

 

-Also button mashing lightsaber combat(Which was in Episode 1 & 3 games and TFU 1&2) works better when fighting stormtroopers in Jedi Action games:

 

1.You don't have to aim your blows to actually hit enemies. When you are in range, the playable character can blow the attack without any problem.(In JA sometimes attacking a standing stormtrooper is a little annoying since you just want to cut them like butter and your attacks may not hit them.)

2.Button mashing lightsaber combat also has faster attacks which is an advantage.(In JA there were some times when the stormtroopers instantly killed me for firing at the same time that I pressed the attack button.)

 

I agree, but I would make the story suit the gameplay, not the other way around, so if the funniest thing is the combat between lightsaber wielders, then I would choose a period where the lightsaber wielders are very common. It is that if I have to choose between the combat between lightsaber wielders of Jedi Academy or the combat between a lightsaber wielder and gunners of The Force Unleashed, I prefer the former, although the ideal would be both.

[z3filus]

JFO is set between episodes 3 and 4.(Dark Times) The time where the heroes should fight stormtroopers 99 percent of the time since Jedis and dark jedis are rare in that era.

 

bolded part:

 

Not really, Sth Inquisitors are hunting the remaining Jedi with Darth Vader. Check the animated series and comics. 

[dg1995]

You mean those lame ones that have lightsaber choppers ? Those are imposters.

[GALACTUS]

You mean those lame ones that have lightsaber choppers ? Those are imposters.

The inquisitors still existed in the Expanded Universe. Jerec being a good example.

[GamerRedNeck]

Honestly, it looks alright but not good enough for me to want to get at launch.  And definitely not on Origin.  

[dg1995]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:23 AM, GamerRedNeck said:

Honestly, it looks alright but not good enough for me to want to get at launch.  And definitely not on Origin.  

Well, I have a good news for you. JFO will be released on steam.(But it still needs Origin)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1172380/STAR_WARS_Jedi_Fallen_Order/

[GamerRedNeck]

On 10/30/2019 at 4:01 AM, dg1995 said:

Well, I have a good news for you. JFO will be released on steam.(But it still needs Origin)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1172380/STAR_WARS_Jedi_Fallen_Order/

Yeah.  Already pre-ordered.  I still feel a little dirty for giving EA money (and pre-ordering no less), but I'll take it...for now.

[Mizore]

Has anyone already played JFO? How does it compare to Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast?

[GamingPrince83]

1 hour ago, Mizore said:

Has anyone already played JFO? How does it compare to Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast?

I'm halfway through the game and so far i think it's a very good game. I think it's one of the best Star Wars games every. But i have to say that the Lightsaber combat is not as fun as in JO/JKA.

[Mizore]

18 hours ago, SaberBlade83 said:

I'm halfway through the game and so far i think it's a very good game. I think it's one of the best Star Wars games every. But i have to say that the Lightsaber combat is not as fun as in JO/JKA.

Yes, from what I've seen I agree with you. It seems a solid game but a pity that they have not been inspired by the lightsaber combat of Jedi Knight. Thanks for the comment.

[dg1995]

I played it. Imo the game is good and in story is better than JO and JA but it has it's own issues:

 

1.It has exploration parts that no one wants in jedi type games. This is a main reason on why underwater swimming and rope climbing  were rarely in Star Wars movies and JK and TFU games.

2.It's combat has some nice ideas but it has lots of issues and balance issues.(Played on hardest difficulty)

Quote

1.Some enemies don't even feel pain at all when you are attacking them during their attack animations.(It feels like you are punching Superman a moment before he punches you. Enemies should feel a pain at very least when you are attacking them by a lightsaber.)

2.When a group of enemies attack you, they can attack you from different directions and cancel your attacks with every hit. It also has this issue that they can stuck you in a corner that can allow them to kill you easily.

3.Enemies can stuck you with their constant attacks without anyway for you to escape.(Which results in either losing lots of HP or dying.)

4.Refilling HP puts you in disadvantage which can get annoying Sometimes.

5.Last bossfight has a death move that can kill you even when your HP is full.

6.XP system is annoying. The game takes your XP from you when you die And gives them to the enemy that killed you. It has this issue that all of it will be lost when you are killed by another enemy when you have a tiny XP.
This system doesn't make the game really harder or more challenging. It just encourages players to kill enemies near the meditation circles and just respawning them until you get the amount of skill points that you need. This system just makes the game annoying.

Instead of this they should have made it like TFU where you won't lose any XP when you die but gave players less XP when defeating enemies and gave players some XP when opening chests.(It annoyed me that chests where just character reskins)

7.Enemies have some invisible boundaries defined for them. When they reach the boundry, they will just walk back which by using this you can kill them easily.

8.When you die in bossfight battles the game teleport you back to the meditation circle forcing you to have some unnecessary walking.

9.The enemies that have you XP will have a glowing yellow light around them that can confuse you when they are attacking with an unblockable move.

10.The game doesn't have any way of telling you if you can handle some harder enemies at the first of the game.(So you end up getting killed sometimes due to this.)

3.you can't skip cutscenes and there is no fast travel option so RIP to replay value.

4.Stuttering issues.

imo TFU and JK have far less issues in their gameplay compare to JFO.

[Circa]

I suppose I'll give a little review of it.

Overall I really liked it. I generally hate games with dodge/roll combat and enemies with giant health bars, but I played it on the lowest difficulty and it wasn't bad at all. A lot of the bosses were still difficult but not to the point where I was having a bad time like if I were playing Dark Souls.

The story is pretty good. You basically go on an investigation adventure, which is always a good time to me. It had a lot of little easter eggs here and there about the overarching story of the Empire but it did really well at keeping out of the trilogy storyline. That's one thing that really drives me crazy with a lot of Star Wars content, they try too hard to relate it back to Luke's story in the films and ends up being too close to those events. A big example of that is The Force Unleashed, which this game is already compared to in a lot of ways. I'm glad Fallen Order didn't really have that problem. My main problem will have spoilers: 

Spoiler

Cal runs into Vader at the end. It's like a horror scene and does a really good job at showing how little and weak Cal is compared to Vader, despite you feeling really powerful up until that point. My problem with it is, Cal should have died there. There really wasn't a reason for him to live, because we know he has to die soon after that anyway. They probably set it up for a possible sequel, which is kind of just silly and lazy. If there is a sequel, he'll have to die in order for him not to be relevant during Rebels or the OT.

The character development and writing was really well done. Each character is really unique and I didn't hate anyone really. Greez was a great character who grows to care for his crew.

Seeing Dathomir was epic. A planet we've never seen in a game before and felt just like it did from Clone Wars. Seeing Ilum and the crystal cave was really cool (plus that really cool easter egg that I'll mention later). Kashyyyk and the Shadowlands returning from KOTOR was awesome (they even made Tach monkeys canon!), though the Wookiee models were pretty bad looking, graphically. The new planets were really cool and felt like they definitely belong in Star Wars.

Combat was fine. Like I said, not a fan of that style of combat system because it gets really boring after awhile and doesn't feel immersive. However I think they did it well enough to make it enjoyable and not stale. My main complaint of the mechanics is that it would delay between dodging and attacking sometimes, which made it hard to react quickly. I found myself yelling at Cal to ATTACK after dodging but he wouldn't do it fast enough. The force powers were perfect, in my opinion. Nothing was overpowered or made you feel like a god. It was extremely grounded in what we see in the films and was relative to what a Padawan could probably re-learn and learn in a matter of months. I think the craziest one was the repulse ability and even that was very simple compared to the TFU repulse.

My favorite easter eggs were ones that related to the Clone Wars and prequel era. The crashed Venator on Zeffo was one of the coolest parts of the game, especially if you hunted for all of the collectibles. You find out what happened to the Jedi general and Padawan on that ship when Order 66 was executed. The force echoes are a really cool feature in the game, and they shine in this ship wreck. The best easter egg though, by far, I'll say in a spoiler tag: 

Spoiler

After you do what you need to do on Ilum, you end up leaving in quite a hurry because the Empire followed you there and have begun an invasion. You never are told to go back to Ilum via the story, however you do always have the option to go back if you want, particularly post-game. Each time you go to a planet, it shows the planet in space like most Star Wars media does. It looks like a normal ice planet before, but if you return to the planet a second time and each time thereafter, it shows the beginnings of construction and dismantling of the entire planet, in the shape of a giant trench stretching around the diameter of the globe. It's very clearly the beginnings of what will be known as Starkiller Base, as seen in The Force Awakens. It was highly speculated that Starkiller Base was made from Ilum back when a canon book showed the stats of each planet and both Ilum and Starkiller were identical. It wasn't confirmed as such until this game, as far as I know. It makes perfect sense though: Ilum was almost entirely made of kyber crystal; Starkiller Base (and the Death Stars and Final Order Fleet) had lasers that were powered by kyber crystals. What better planet to choose? It was also a sacred and mostly hidden planet by the Jedi, which Palpatine would have wanted to destroy anyway, but instead morphed it into a death machine. That also means that the base had started construction many decades before it actually became operational, which when we all saw The Force Awakens, we all rolled our eyes at this new death star that seemingly came out of nowhere. At least we know it had been one of Palaptine's big projects behind the scenes that didn't get to be used until after his death and during his hiatus. Picture of both Starkiller Base and Ilum from post-game:

The big question a lot of people have, especially in this community, is whether or not Jedi Fallen Order compared to Jedi Outcast or Academy or even The Force Unleashed. My answer is mostly a dismissal of the question entirely. It's a completely different genre of game. It's much more similar to The Force Unleashed overall, but still very different. I played the new God of War a few months before playing this game, and that's essentially what this is: a Star Wars God of War. Nearly every mechanic and design choice is the same, save for one: the meditation save points, which are straight from Dark Souls (and probably the worst and outdated feature, in my opinion). I know a lot of you are strictly PC players, so you haven't played God of War, but if you ever get a chance (and you should, it's stellar), you'll definitely see where they drew inspiration from.

This game shouldn't be compared to Jedi Academy, at all, if we're being fair, outside of lore. There's no doubt that Jedi Academy has the best lightsaber combat mechanics to this day, but this game didn't even attempt to copy it, and I think that's good for what they went for in the end. I'd rather have any future Star Wars game that attempts to copy Jedi Academy actually be a Jedi Knight sequel or remake, rather than a new series. That's what makes the JK series so special.