Porting Discussion

[Omicron]

Might be , but whoever approved that file must have missed that it's a ported model and it can be hard to tell

got any examples ? I havn't seen ported models here yet

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1640-new-vegas-ncr-veteran-armor/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1477-general-grievous/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1497-death-watch-maul/ <==Not ported from a videogame, but still taken without permission

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1498-savage-opress/ <==Same as above

http://jkhub.org/files/file/501-predator/

 

There are possibly others as well, but those were the main ones that came to mind. I don't have much against ports, but you probably do, as they can lead to legal issues and such. :/

[eezstreet]

Says nowhere in the rules that ports aren't permitted.

And frankly the rules are kinda insane anyway.

And a little birdie told me that Cael hates these rules.

 

/me runs

[AshuraDX]

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1640-new-vegas-ncr-veteran-armor/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1477-general-grievous/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1497-death-watch-maul/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1498-savage-opress/

http://jkhub.org/files/file/501-predator/

 

There are possibly others as well, but those were the main ones that came to mind. I don't have much against ports, but you probably do, as they can lead to legal issues and such. :/

 

allright

I didn't know we hosted the predator model here

 

where are those models from if they are not from a game (Savage and Maul) ?

 

I cant believe someone let that grievous pass O.o

about that fallout model... I thought this was a model from a mod for fallout ? It's not ?

[Omicron]

allright

I didn't know we hosted the predator model here

 

where are those models from if they are not from a game (Savage and Maul) ?

 

I cant believe someone let that grievous pass O.o

about that fallout model... I thought this was a model from a mod for fallout ? It's not ?

Opress:

http://tf3dm.com/3d-model/savage-opress-39959.html

 

Can't find where the maul one is from, but a few people said it was a port in the comments

 

the Fallout model, I think used textures from a mod.

[AshuraDX]

@@Omicron the Clone wars models are ported from Star Wars - Clone Wars Adventures (a free to play MMO-something)

the Savage Opress model was ripped from that game , uploaded to that site you posted and apearently ported to Jedi Academy

[Circa]

Says nowhere in the rules that ports aren't permitted.

And frankly the rules are kinda insane anyway.

And a little birdie told me that Cael hates these rules.

 

/me runs

 

The rules clearly state: Do not post illegal or harmful content. Ports are illegal.

 

What rules are insane? He didn't like that we enforced things without the rules backing them up, which is why we amended the rules. We change them because people were abusing certain rights they had. We had many complaints.

 

I wasn't aware those ports were still being hosted, even after they were pointed out that they were ports. The other ones I didn't even know existed. They will be removed.

 

[Omicron]

Hmm, my skin will probably have to not get approved, as I think the model is from KotOR, but the textures I made.

[AshuraDX]

Hmm, my skin will probably have to not get approved, as I think the model is from KotOR, but the textures I made.

I'll check that out , thanks !

I just took down the files you pointed out , thanks for your help !

[Kualan]

Out of curiosity, what General Grievous model was ported/taken down? I had seen the New Vegas/Savage/Maul models on the Hub, but I thought the only Grievous that had been made for JKA was the Mars Marshall model.

[Syd0w]

Out of curiosity, what General Grievous model was ported/taken down? I had seen the New Vegas/Savage/Maul models on the Hub, but I thought the only Grievous that had been made for JKA was the Mars Marshall model.

The Grievous model that was taken down was ported from SWBF2, I believe it was uploaded by a guy named "grievous"

[Kualan]

The Grievous model that was taken down was ported from SWBF2, I believe it was uploaded by a guy named "grievous"

 

Ah yes, the image from the Hub's former file page for it is still viewable on Google. I vaguely remember seeing that model now - have to admit, unlike the Savage and Maul ones, I had no idea that Grievous was a port at the time.

[eezstreet]

The rules clearly state: Do not post illegal or harmful content. Ports are illegal.

Not illegal if you have permission from the original copyright holder. I'm not arguing that these downloads did, but it's ridiculous to use a blanketing principle like that as the basis for your judgment.

And I'd like to point out that lots of large mods use ported content in some shape or another, and there is a large quantity of models which use ripped sounds. Why don't you clamp down on models with sounds whose audio is ripped from the movies, hm? It's the same principle at that point. No, it's not the same as a model where the model itself is completely ripped, that's a little bit different.

 

Imo, if the textures themselves on the model are totally different, like they are on that New Vegas model, then I don't see it as a real problem.

The problem with porting is that JKFiles went about the C&D received by BioWare completely wrong, they should have placed the burden of truth and legal responsibility upon uploader of the file, instead of dancing around and trying to hunt down files which appear to be ported.

 

 

What rules are insane? He didn't like that we enforced things without the rules backing them up, which is why we amended the rules. We change them because people were abusing certain rights they had. We had many complaints.

Like..the rule that dictates that you need photographic evidence for permission to go through. Not only is this type of thing easily forged (in MS paint no less), it's an unnecessary hassle on legitimate people, and it detriments the quality of the site when downloaders need to see "Oh, I got permission from them, don't worry" when this could be clearly not the case.

 

Four weeks is a completely arbitrary amount of time, also.

 

Files don't need readmes, that's just ridiculous and one of the things that Cael complained about specifically. Do I really need to include a file inside of my zip that tells who I am, what the file is called, what the version is, and possibly the file size and the date are? All of that is easily accessible from the site and bears no repeating.

[MoonDog]

The rules clearly state: Do not post illegal or harmful content. Ports are illegal.

 

This rule does appear to be selectively followed. Example: The JK Outcast rip thread is lauded and acceptable, because apparently it has a "cool" factor that justifies overlooking grossly ripped copyrighted content.

 

As eez pointed out, there are models and or maps that use ripped sounds and or clips from movies. Another example of something being okay if it's "cool" enough, or held up on a pedestal by the sycophantic masses that occupy the JK scene.. 

[Syd0w]

Since a lot of work goes into sound design, it's pretty much like ripping a model.  Not to mention maps that use music from the SW soundtracks, and its funny when people get mad about music packs or duel music mods when you can download every single map out there and practically get all of the SW soundtracks.

[eezstreet]

Since a lot of work goes into sound design, it's pretty much like ripping a model.  Not to mention maps that use music from the SW soundtracks, and its funny when people get mad about music packs or duel music mods when you can download every single map out there and practically get all of the SW soundtracks.

Yeah, I agree. If the same sorta thing exists for sounds, I don't see why models are treated any differently. It's hypocrisy on behalf of the community.

Now I'm not saying that ported models/sounds/whatever should be the basis of all future mods...I myself am guilty of using ported weapon sounds. But they're a great tool for someone in that particular situation, where they're already putting in the effort of making a map/TC and the only thing that exists to make is sounds...unfortunately it's pretty difficult to get quality sounds without expensive equipment.

[Jango40]

are you shitting me? Now I can't download these things?...

[eezstreet]

also

 

[AshuraDX]

@@eezstreet You got a valid point about the sound files , I have to agree there

I used ported or better recorded(record gameplay via fraps->convert2mp3->split the recording in appropiate clips, which is about the same as just taking the soundfiles straight from the game) sounds aswell for 2 of my models

 

I'll get a discussion on this started with the other staff members

[minilogoguy18]

Now you got me wondering, I'm working on getting Kain in game as we speak and I had planned on just using the voice recording sessions since there's no background noise to filter out but now I think it may keep my model from being hosted.

[therfiles]

Now you got me wondering, I'm working on getting Kain in game as we speak and I had planned on just using the voice recording sessions since there's no background noise to filter out but now I think it may keep my model from being hosted.

 

Like @@AshuraDX said, we're going to review our current policies and hopefully establish some strict guidelines on porting to help our members wade through this "legal gray area". We do not want our policies to hinder someone from creating original work, so please, do not feel threatened by these developments. We are definitely open to suggestions and discussion. But please, do not stop creating original content because of this issue. We hope to have it resolved ASAP!

[Syd0w]

Now you got me wondering, I'm working on getting Kain in game as we speak and I had planned on just using the voice recording sessions since there's no background noise to filter out but now I think it may keep my model from being hosted.

Wouldn't worry about it that much.  I think they'd realize that banning ripped sounds would effectively destroy the site.

[minilogoguy18]

Well some companies (like the old LucasArts) were very protective of the sounds, even more so than the rest of the assets, a reason why no sounds can be found in the assets for SWBF1 or 2.

[eezstreet]

But how different are sounds and models from being ported? How is that any different? They're both created by people who worked hard to produce them. That's what I'm getting at here. You can't simply say "oh, sounds are okay but models are not okay to port". That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I think the line ought to be drawn pretty clear here - straight-up ports (without proper consent, i.e. the Grievous model) ought to be banned or heavily restricted, and stuff that uses ported/recorded (they ARE one and the same...just because something isn't directly ported doesn't change the principle) sounds or models ought to be alright.

 

I don't agree with the idea of making this sound specific, I just think that stuff like duel music packs and things of that nature ought to be treated the same as a Grievous model being hosted on this site. What's the difference between a Kenobi/handmade model that uses ripped sounds and a Fallout New Vegas model that uses original sounds and new textures? There isn't one. Both of them use ripped/ported assets, so there ought to be no difference there.

[eezstreet]

I'm sorry Caelum, plz don't smite me into oblivion

[therfiles]

Great points, @@eezstreet! I totally agree with you.

 

We have to understand that this a very charged, controversial issue. While the suggestion you posted is great, some members feel that all porting is a violation. But if we did that (no ported sounds, etc, all has to be original content), @ is definitely right, that a lot of our downloads would have to be removed. We have to find a balance between the "remove all of it" approach and keeping our community healthy and constructive.

 

Perhaps a flagging method would work? Putting a little flag by mods that use ripped content and crediting it (mods already submitted wouldn't have to go back and do this, as it would be a major hindrance, and many mods have been hosted here on permission status)