Jeff's never ending WIP's

[Jeff]

How it looks.

 

Fingers should wrap around the saber, always, if they don't then the model just isn't presentable enough to be used, imo.

 

I feel a model shouldn't have weighting issues personally before its released to the public.

 

Then don't use it, these aren't released to the public, they are WIP (it's in the title of the page) in an obscure thread that about a dozen people follow. Not to mention you and I have had PM's about the weights on the hands, why are you bringing it up in here. I mean I can just not release anything, it's not going to bother me I'll save time by not posting this stuff. 

[The Punisher]

How it looks.

 

Fingers should wrap around the saber, always, if they don't then the model just isn't presentable enough to be used, imo.

 

I feel a model shouldn't have weighting issues personally before its released to the public.

Then don't download the models and do it yourself.

[Xioth]

You start to sound like an ungrateful prick to be honest.

I'm allowed to criticize things.

 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing something when it's not done well, no offence.

 

Everyone is just like "well you should just be happy it exists at all", thats not how it works, what might be okay for one person might not look the best to another person, I've never once gone out of my way to be rude to you, or to Jeff, but I have an opinion and I am going to share it, if I feel like a port wasn't done as well as it could have been, I'm going to say so, and there's nothing wrong with that, and if you people have a problem with criticism then in all honesty, you shouldn't be on the internet. You also don't have to port models yourself, but all I'm saying is, if you're gonna port something, at least port it with effort put into it, because then later on, you have people like me, AshuraDX, and others criticizing models, so it's better to do it right the first time, not that it's done wrong, it's just not done as well as it could be, and the reason why is because I know Jeff can do much better.

 

I am not an ungrateful prick, this website can't handle criticism, I'm going to criticize others work, and just because I don't know how to port or just because I don't know how to do it myself, doesn't give me any less right to criticize then any of you have the right to.

 

I have been attacked over and over again and people think I'm an asshole when all I ask is for a bit of an effort. "Well just do it yourself." Yeah, okay, true, I could do that. But why not just do it well enough so people don't have to worry about "doing it themselves". Why not do what everyone would like to do, as opposed to just focusing on whatever you're cool with.

 

I promise you, if I was an experienced modeler, I would take requests from randoms every day doing whatever model they wanted whenever they wanted. I know not everyone is like that, and I'm not asking them to be, but for attacking someone for having an opinion on a model is just stupid. Sure it'd take a long time but knowing that I was pleasing everyone and giving people what they wanted would just keep giving me motivation to continue doing them.

 

I was actually extremely surprised that almost no one does modeling requests, hell, people barely do port requests.

 

We want to grow this community and make it as big and as large as it can possibly ever be, why are we settling for "ok"? We could have far superior models then what we already do if people pushed themselves. I'm not saying it's not difficult as is, I'm sure it's very difficult and taxing, BUT, when it's finally done and when you've put all that effort into it, you've really shown what you can do, and show that you're really putting effort into all your models, and its going to pay off. Sure there will be criticisms, but thats NORMAL, there'll always be criticisms, but there will be a lot less to complain about when there... well, isn't much to complain about. But we encourage too much... well, encouragement, when, if we don't like something, we should be allowed to say "needs work" and then telling why it needs work, and for people like me, thats saying "well you should work on the hands a bit, could be better", and that does NOT make me an asshole. People like me being people who don't understand blender or 3ds Max, or XSI.

 

In my humble opinion, yes, when something isn't weighted correctly, it wasn't done right, thats my opinion and people can't stop me from feeling that way, there's no right or wrong in that, and to say someone is wrong for thinking that the model isn't presentable enough because of weighting issues, is, well, wrong. You shouldn't put someone down for constructive criticism.

 

But at the same time when you ask people to get into modelling and porting, you ask them to take hours and hours out of their day everyday to do this, when they're just starting out, some people don't have the time to EVER learn how to do these things, and some people, even with tutorials, can't figure them out.

 

Looked over every tutorial on this website and others, and not once have I even begun to figure out how to do any of it, not even the tiniest bit of it. Hell I have trouble even OPENING UP a model in blender, and this is after studying multiple tutorials over and over and over, I have no idea how to do it, and I doubt I'll ever figure it out, whether in 10 years or 20 years, I still am adamant I'll have absolutely no idea how to use blender to even PORT let-alone model. You guys think I haven't tried? Haven't tried as HARD as I could to figure out these programs? I just can't... I have tried and tried and tried, I've looked up video tutorials and all the tutorials on here and I just can-not figure it out.

 

You people need to start taking criticism, and stop taking it to heart when someone criticizes your work.

 

For now on, I am not going to hold back, if I think something isn't done correctly, I am going to speak up about it, and if you don't agree with that, thats on you, you can call me an ungrateful prick or an asshole all you want, its not going to change me or my opinion.

[Noodle]

Looked over every tutorial on this website and others, and not once have I even begun to figure out how to do any of it, not even the tiniest bit of it. Hell I have trouble even OPENING UP a model in blender, and this is after studying multiple tutorials over and over and over, I have no idea how to do it, and I doubt I'll ever figure it out, whether in 10 years or 20 years, I still am adamant I'll have absolutely no idea how to use blender to even PORT let-alone model. You guys think I haven't tried? Haven't tried as HARD as I could to figure out these programs? I just can't... I have tried and tried and tried, I've looked up video tutorials and all the tutorials on here and I just can-not figure it out.

 

Perhaps the problem is that you're trying to start with something that's not as easy as it would seem. All the knowledge I've gotten with blender so far has been through watching very basic youtube tutorials, like how to make a barrel or how to make a low-poly model. Noone should try to port or model without knowing the very basics.

[Daedra]

I'm allowed to criticize things.

 

You people need to start taking criticism, and stop taking it to heart when someone criticizes your work.

 

Just look at TLJ for that. Could you imagine if Rian started being negative towards those who didn't like TLJ? It's the same thing with anything. When someone creates something to allow other people to use/see/whatever, you're not going to get everyone to like what you make. Heck I'm sure people dislike some of my mods released here too. That's just life. However, there are three ways to go about it if you're the person who dislikes it. You can A. Move on and forget about it. B. Just be totally negative and offer no insight as to why you dislike the said creation. and C. Stay positive about it, offer some constructive criticism to the creator from your view and keep polite. From what I see, you went with the polite constructive route.

 

The mentality is pretty bad though. You're right there too along with everything else. You offered constructive criticism which would be a wonderful opportunity for the creator to hone their skills and refine them for more epic models in the future. You could have just said "it sucks", but you made sure to be nice about it. I don't really see an issue with anything you've said honestly. Personally, I like when someone gives me some feedback on what's wrong with the mod I'm working on - something that I probably would have overlooked myself, such as a missing shader or missing texture, anything really. That way, with the help of others, my mod can be 100% as best as it can be for what it is.

 

You're not alone anyway. All anyone seems to say is "do it yourself", even when you're not offering constructive criticism. It basically translates to "I'm going to be a jerk and not listen to you so I'll bat your claims off by telling you to do it, instead of taking your claims in my stride".

 

[Noodle]

With all things said and done people should just move on, lest we derail this thread with pointless drama and bickering. 

[TheWhitePhoenix]

But at the same time when you ask people to get into modelling and porting, you ask them to take hours and hours out of their day everyday to do this, when they're just starting out, some people don't have the time to EVER learn how to do these things, and some people, even with tutorials, can't figure them out.

 

Looked over every tutorial on this website and others, and not once have I even begun to figure out how to do any of it, not even the tiniest bit of it. Hell I have trouble even OPENING UP a model in blender, and this is after studying multiple tutorials over and over and over, I have no idea how to do it, and I doubt I'll ever figure it out, whether in 10 years or 20 years, I still am adamant I'll have absolutely no idea how to use blender to even PORT let-alone model. You guys think I haven't tried? Haven't tried as HARD as I could to figure out these programs? I just can't... I have tried and tried and tried, I've looked up video tutorials and all the tutorials on here and I just can-not figure it out.

Okay, I was going to respond to your essay with another essay, but I've decided to save myself the headache and focus on this particularly instead cause this just irked the hell out of me.

 

So...you have time to essentially leave an essay of pointless talk and saying "I'm not gonna hold back and let you all know what I think" but you don't have time to essentially learn how to model, and you claim to have tried...? Have you not seen Maui's tutorial on how to frankenstein with a basic JKA model? Blender is so easy to install and use, it's not even funny. I myself use it for personal modeling and frankensteining all the time. And that's just the basic use.

 

 

 

It seems to me that you haven't tried enough or just don't actually care enough to actually make time to learn the basics, so you have to be smug and basically nitpick small details in ported models when the amount of work that @@Jeff & @@The Punisher go through to make sure the models are reduced to 10K Verts without turning it into a low setting JKA Model LOD (which looks VERY UGLY, I might add) is just astounding. In the end, you come off as the reason why Jeff and Punisher don't post anymore cause there's a difference between a nitpicker and someone who's actually giving constructive criticism. I'll even toss Ashura a bone: He can be the harshest when it comes to criticism, but at least he is open and honest about it.

 

And guess what: THAT is what I think. You can actually start improving by actually learning how to use Blender from here or you can continue doing what you do and never improve yourself. You can take it or leave it. That's all I have to say.

[Jeff]

@@Lord Of Hate This has nothing to do with criticism,  you and I discussed the hands on Scourge not being weighed in a PM, in which I said "As far as the hands they take a long time to weigh, and to be honest it never bothered me, so I don't think I'll be touching that up." I only got bothered because I gave you an answer, but you're still bringing it up in this thread. 

[Xioth]

Okay, I was going to respond to your essay with another essay, but I've decided to save myself the headache and focus on this particularly instead cause this just irked the hell out of me.

 

So...you have time to essentially leave an essay of pointless talk and saying "I'm not gonna hold back and let you all know what I think" but you don't have time to essentially learn how to model, and you claim to have tried...? Have you not seen Maui's tutorial on how to frankenstein with a basic JKA model? Blender is so easy to install and use, it's not even funny. I myself use it for personal modeling and frankensteining all the time. And that's just the basic use.

 

 

 

It seems to me that you haven't tried enough or just don't actually care enough to actually make time to learn the basics, so you have to be smug and basically nitpick small details in ported models when the amount of work that @@Jeff & @@The Punisher go through to make sure the models are reduced to 10K Verts without turning it into a low setting JKA Model LOD (which looks VERY UGLY, I might add) is just astounding. In the end, you come off as the reason why Jeff and Punisher don't post anymore cause there's a difference between a nitpicker and someone who's actually giving constructive criticism. I'll even toss Ashura a bone: He can be the harshest when it comes to criticism, but at least he is open and honest about it.

 

And guess what: THAT is what I think. You can actually start improving by actually learning how to use Blender from here or you can continue doing what you do and never improve yourself. You can take it or leave it. That's all I have to say.

How much time that was put into something does not make it immune to criticism, if there is something wrong, I have a right to comment on it, no matter how small it is, it's not nitpicking, it IS constructive criticism. When the hands don't wrap around the saber it's going to stick out like a sore thumb, and I can't honestly see how someone can see it and be like "Oh yeah, but he did his best", because I find it very, very hard to believe a normal-sized model can't have his hands wrapped around a saber when, even with what I do know, which is basically nothing, that he can. That pretty much any normal-sized model can, provided their hands are actually hands and not claws or something.

 

That is something worth pointing out, it's something worth bringing up, just because you guys think it's okay, doesn't mean that no one has the right to say anything about it.

 

I'm not being smug, you all just don't want people criticizing people's work and you wanna put people down for voicing their opinions unless they're someone who knows what they're doing. I guarantee if I was an experienced modeler and I said the same exact thing, you'd all be agreeing with me right now, but since I don't have the experience to do so, you like to act like it's wrong for me to comment on it since "I can't do any better, so I shouldn't say anything."

 

"Do it yourself" is a way to get out of doing work, I understand this is a past-time, not a job, no one is "owed" a model or such, but thats like saying "hey can you do me this favor", "no, do it yourself", if that happened you'd be calling that dude an asshole right off the bat, and if he had friends with him saying the same thing, that'd be borderline bullying. But we're on JKHub, where thats just okay to do, its an excuse to make someone look like a douche just because they asked for more, for improvement, and you shouldn't put someone down for asking for improvement. IMO, I'd be happy, it'd give me more opportunities to improve my skills while making tons of people happy that I'm putting these top-class models out.

 

I am excellent with adding support for certain things, I work with what I get, every model that I've been given, I've re-uploaded onto moddb and added all kinds of support for Tulak Hord, going above and beyond for people who might want more out of the model, doing way more then I'd ever HAVE to do, because it's what PEOPLE what, not what I want. NPC support, SP support, all these things are quick and easy for me, and I am great with stuff like that, I've even figured out how to add effects to weapons and change their colors, but when it comes to modeling, nothing, absolutely nothing, has helped me, because I straight up can't comprehend it. It doesn't mean I'll ever give up or that I'll ever stop trying. But in all honesty it is rather overwhelming.

 

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, what I said was true.

 

I am honest, I'm not nitpicking, what I pointed out were legitimate criticisms.

[Xioth]

@@Lord Of Hate This has nothing to do with criticism,  you and I discussed the hands on Scourge not being weighed in a PM, in which I said "As far as the hands they take a long time to weigh, and to be honest it never bothered me, so I don't think I'll be touching that up." I only got bothered because I gave you an answer, but you're still bringing it up in this thread. 

No, I responded to something Ashura said, because it seemed like he wanted to do work on it. (At the time, though our convo did prompt me to ask him, which again, shouldn't be a problem that I simply asked a question.)

 

Then Punisher said about how the model works in SP, and I was saying there was nothing wrong with the model functionally, but that the hands weren't weighted correctly, and that its kinda hard to overlook something like that when it's pretty obvious and would stick out, to me anyway.

[Xioth]

This is getting really out of hand.

 

Let's just all agree to disagree, you guys think it's nitpicking, I think it's constructive criticism, no more arguing because it's just turning into a "who's right, who's wrong" thing, I was just trying to make a point.

 

But of course I am gonna stick up for myself when called an "ungrateful prick".

[Penekowski]

Be grateful that we still have people that care enough to get shit done for this 15-year-old game instead of bitching for the tiniest details. Jeez, these people get on my nerves.

 

With that being said, can you please port Darth Desolous Jeff? The ps2 version would be great. don't worry about LODs/optimization or hand weighting/soundpacks. I can get that part done

[Xioth]

Be grateful that we still have people that care enough to get shit done for this 15-year-old game instead of bitching for the tiniest details. Jeez, these people get on my nerves.

 

With that being said, can you please port Darth Desolous Jeff? The ps2 version would be great. don't worry about LODs/optimization or hand weighting/soundpacks. I can get that part done.

I am grateful that we do, but I'm not gonna praise everything I see. If ya'll are gonna keep it up, so am I. I'm going to be adamant in my opinion, I am not wrong, and I wasn't wrong in anything I said earlier.

 

I'm gonna give criticism on things, as I should, as YOU or anyone should.

 

You are acting like babies, god forbid, I said the hands weren't weighted well, sacrilege. THE HANDS AREN'T WEIGHTED WELL! They just aren't, I'm not gonna say it's a perfect model when it isn't.

 

This website needs a reality check.

 

The sad part is, Jeff wasn't even that upset, notice how he and I were having a civil conversation instead of getting angry and insulting one another. I respect Jeff and the work he does, I just wish he (and pretty much everyone else), strived their absolute hardest to do their best work on everything, big or small, so then we wouldn't have to "bitch", in the first place.

 

If you try your best and work the hardest on models instead of just doing what you're happy with, then you're making people happy while making yourself better, with every little thing you do, you're slowly improving yourself over time, and thats worthy of praise. Not just anyone can port, it's a hard feat for sure, but the reason why I got so bent out of shape is because people are just happy leaving it all messed up weight-wise and whatnot.

 

People are just like "It functions, deal with it", er... no? Thats just stupid and is holding us ALL back, its the mindset that everyone should praise everything thats holding us back.

 

I saw no one talking to Ashura even when everyone else was praising it, they were honest about it, thing is, they were pointing out even tinier details then I was, ones that were barely visible and didn't stick out, and yet when I point out a clearly visible flaw in the model, everyone jumps on me like I'm a douche for pointing it out? No. I criticized the model, get over it, the hands are messed up, its noticeable, it sticks out, thats all I said, and all I'm saying.

[AshuraDX]

Forgot about this, does that mean you're going to end up fixing up the Scourge model yourself?

 

Jeff mostly makes these for stuff he feels like playing with in multiplayer and it kinda sucks for us SP players who just feel like acting out battles by themselves.

Sorry, i'm not interested in fixing up any ports.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

"This website needs a reality check."

So says the guy who keeps making unnecessary essays while acting like what he claims we are acting like.

There's a reason why the meme called REEEEEEEEEE exists.

[Tompa9]

I have to buy popcorn for this reading  

[TheWhitePhoenix]

I have to buy popcorn for this reading  

Would you like some butter with your popcorn, Tompa?

[Tompa9]

Would you like some butter with your popcorn, Tompa?

 

For sure mate! Take a seat, young Phoenix 

[Xioth]

"This website needs a reality check."

 

So says the guy who keeps making unnecessary essays while acting like what he claims we are acting like.

 

There's a reason why the meme called REEEEEEEEEE exists.

Because you guys started with me, I did nothing wrong and all of a sudden I wake up and am barraged by comments. Stop it.

[AshuraDX]

Stop it.

 

After reading through this mess, I'd agree with that.

 

[Pickles256]

I'm allowed to criticize things.

 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing something when it's not done well, no offence.

 

Etc.

And we have the right to criticize your opinion

[Xioth]

And we have the right to criticize your opinion

Yes, but you don't have the right to insult me and barrage me with tons of messages saying that I'm a shithead for criticizing someone's work.

 

Just because you think it's okay doesn't mean everyone else will, and you shouldn't make them feel like shit for doing so.

 

It's over and done with now, last message was sent hours ago, drop it.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

And we have the right to criticize your opinion

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I could type more ^, but it would be infinite and would probably crash the site because Pickles is on the mark.

[Mandalorian]

@@Lord Of Hate This has nothing to do with criticism,  you and I discussed the hands on Scourge not being weighed in a PM, in which I said "As far as the hands they take a long time to weigh, and to be honest it never bothered me, so I don't think I'll be touching that up." I only got bothered because I gave you an answer, but you're still bringing it up in this thread. 

have you tried to use the auto weighting tools in the data transfer tab options? It is a good way to do it. I usually use that and then use the weight paint tool and then the vertex weighting manually.

[diogocs195]