Porting Discussion

[Onysfx]

NOT YET! *Kicks ass*

AAAAAAAAAGH! MY LEGS! I'M BURNING WITH THE FILES!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

 

Anakin, help me, HALP ME!....oh wait...

[ChalklYne]

Clouded this Hub's future is...

[eezstreet]

yaller f-in weird

[MoonDog]

After 11 pages of discussion, a full compromise was made, and the most un-vague rule ever created was enacted into existence.

 

 

 

• Any content illegally ported from another game will be denied if reported if discovered by our staff or if reported by another user.

 

Good job guys. So glad all the discussion didn't go to waste.

[eezstreet]

After 11 pages of discussion, a full compromise was made, and the most un-vague rule ever created was enacted into existence.

 

 

 

Good job guys. So glad all the discussion didn't go to waste.

so much this

[Link]

I cannot believe that you guys of all people don't see through what we're trying to say without saying it directly >_> 

 

Mods with content stolen/ported can be reported by the original author as being a copyright breach will be taken down.

 

What does that mean for your file? It'll go through as we cannot check every file for direct permissions granted. If a legit concern is raised by the copyright owner, it'll be taken down.

 

Is that more clear?

[ChalklYne]

I didnt think you had to break it down in lamens but yeah go ahead XD

 

First time I read it I was like hrmmmm 

[Agent Jones]

if discovered by our staff or if reported by another user

Witch hunt coming in 3...2...1...

[Szico VII]

The staff cannot check every file for every possibility of ported content. It is simply not possible. We are not omniscient - we cannot know whether a sound included in a file is actually a rip from Star Wars battlefront, we don't have an all knowing database reference program that will do this for us. We don't know if a model has been ripped from another game or if it is original work. It will be picked up if the particular staff member has a particular interest in the infringing porting media and has the background knowledge to make this link, but this would have to be a specific recognition. It is just not possible to know.

 

The only realistic way of dealing with this, given the limited resources of the site, is to allow other users who have copyright complaints or hosted/ported content of theirs which they has slipped through the net, to give them the opportunity to express these concerns and then the file would be taken down. We have to advise all modders not to submit ported content to protect the site, however we know here and there there will undoubtedly be some ported content, and we have to attribute the responsibility of submitting such files to the authors, not the site staff.

[Circa]

tl;dr

 

Submit what you want. If we don't catch the ported content, perhaps others will. If it's brought to our attention that a file contains ported content, it will be removed if those people can provide evidence.

[minilogoguy18]

I just hate the ones who port and say that it's their work, like the guy who submitted the CW darth maul and savage oppress.

[Szico VII]

Cases dealing with fair use and porting can be complex, as decisions are based on individual circumstances and judgements. This can be a very difficult area of copyright law.

 

You guys seem to want a rule that covers everything - no such rule can exist. The best option is a fair use-style policy which allows mild incidental use of ported/copyright content but also allowed people the option to request their copyright be removed. For single sound inclusions or the odd texture, then that might be considered fair use. A whole map or texture set and or model would usually not be a fair use, particularly if credit is not attributed correctly.

 

 

[eezstreet]

I'm not saying that the staff should be all-knowing and automatically take down any and all ports that they shall find with their all-knowing powers of deduction and search and time-bending. That's not what I'm implying at all and I think you all are missing the point entirely.

 

I'm saying that there was absolutely no progress made on the stance on porting, which was really the key issue here. Instead of a detailed description of what's allowed, all we get is "Ported content is not allowed." Okay? But what about ripped content from the movies? What about sounds vs. models? What about retextures? Is ported content now not allowed period?

 

See where I'm getting at here? All that was done was shift the burden of responsibility onto the uploader of the content, instead of enacting a specific set of rules as to what's allowed and what isn't. This accomplishes nothing, and these sort of policies (from my POV) were universally agreed upon.

[Szico VII]

You cannot make a set of rules that will define accurately all ported content. This is why fair usage law was created. See here:

The final stance is still under discussion but I suspect it will be an "officially no porting is allowed" except under fair use (i.e entire ports of any type of media would not really be acceptable, but the odd texture/sound/mesh should be ok) and the final decision will be made at the hands of the staff (or potentially the justice system, but hopefully nothing like that would ever happen)

 

The burden of responsibility SHOULD be on the user as they are one who have decided to include ported content and as we, the staff, are not in a position to make complex legal decisions that would hold up in an actual court. The submitter must take responsibility for using such content at their own risk.

 

In addition, of course if someone who owns the original work wants it removed they should have the absolute right to request that this happens.

 

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p27_work_of_others

[eezstreet]

I made a very simple stance on this issue, one that worked perfectly, and now it seems it has been ignored without a real reason.

 

Content which is 100% ported = disallowed

Content which contains some ported content = allowed

 

Instead we get this weird "oh porting is okay but only if the copyright holder doesn't say anything and its determined that you did most of the work and yeah it's cool and all that" etc

which was the problem to begin with.

 

Also, this is an international site, so citing one country's laws isn't really correct imo, especially since it varies wildly between UK and US.

[Circa]

I made a very simple stance on this issue, one that worked perfectly, and now it seems it has been ignored without a real reason.

 

Content which is 100% ported = disallowed

Content which contains some ported content = allowed

 

Instead we get this weird "oh porting is okay but only if the copyright holder doesn't say anything and its determined that you did most of the work and yeah it's cool and all that" etc

which was the problem to begin with.

That is what we're saying. That's the whole "fair use" thing Szico was explaining.

 

[Szico VII]

"The final stance is still under discussion but I suspect it will be an "officially no porting is allowed" except under fair use"

 

A rule such as the one proposed by eezstreet is equally prescriptive and cannot be applied to every piece of copyright. Would you be happy if someone took a piece of your work and changed one texture so it was 99% ported?

 

I suspect not.

 

The UK law is an example of how this kind of issue is managed in the UK, and a system which realistically is what we would have to use. You cannot make a set prescription that covers all types and variety of port/copyright which can be universally applied to any situation.

Whichever way you look at it there will be some decision over whether the material should be removed left up to the site staff. This would of course take strongly into account whether there was a request for removal and how much of the included material was ported. In the event of a legal challenge, obviously our decision would be overruled by whichever legal authority was sending the papers and so we would of course take it down rather than risk such action.

 

Its a risk of being sued or C&D'd vs being able to host creative mods to the communtiy vs. rights of copyrights and original owners to their work.

[eezstreet]

That is what we're saying. That's the whole "fair use" thing Szico was explaining.

That's not what the rules say. They say all ported content is disallowed.

[afi]

If ported/stolen sounds/music/gfx are not allowed you have to delete 90% of the mods on this page.

[Szico VII]

I'm sure I said the final stance is still under discussion....there will never be an "ultimate" stance as it will be subject to change and review over time. Sure, the main rules page doesn't have a specific meaning there yet, but we'll get it there soon.

 

And @...thats why we need a fair use criteria.

[Agent Jones]

If ported/stolen sounds/music/gfx are not allowed you have to delete 90% of the mods on this page.

That's right. Grab your pitchforks and torches, peasants!

[ChalklYne]

I would assume something like HS Stormtrooper should be ok with it's sounds... just try to avoid things like this XD

[TheWhitePhoenix]

That is what we're saying. That's the whole "fair use" thing Szico was explaining.

Say you wanna post a reskin of Hapslash's Anakin with custom sounds and retextures. If you have permission from him, that's okay. Custom sounds and retextures are okay too. Let's say the custom sounds are like say, Atton Rand's voice work from Kotor II, but the model is from JKA. That's what I'm guessing to be a file that's is okay if it's a model. Sound improvement files are a little more riskier, but still allowed. Correct me if I made any misassumptions.

[Szico VII]

Without going into it too much, provided consent was gained and there was only a few short clips of voicework (rather than it running into the minutes) id imagine that would be classed as fair use.

[eezstreet]

So what if it's a ported mesh, but custom sounds + textures?

Furthermore, what if it consists of ported content, but from a variety of different sources, each source being used enough to classify as fair use?

Example: Extreme Weapons Pack. Has tooons of guns, all of them being retextured after being ported from a variety of games. There's at least 40 guns in the pack, some are custom, sone are ported but nothing is just 100% ported. How would you classify this?