AngelModder

We could sure use a mapper . God knows i'm not one, yet i'm doing all our maps.

Thanks. But yea I'd love to help once this is done. Alright so a quick question, maybe I'm just an idiot and have been spoiled by the old q3map2gui by norman, but uhm when I run my .bat file to compile using wzmap.exe it runs fine except it all ends up timing out because it can't find any of my textures or shaders.

I never was an expert at .bat files... But here is what mine is...

"C:\Users\Lil One\Documents\WZMap\wzmap.exe" -meta -v "C:\Program Files (x86)\LucasArts\Star Wars Jedi Knight Jedi Academy\GameData\base\maps\JH3-TE.map"

"C:\Users\Lil One\Documents\WZMap\wzmap.exe" -vis -v "C:\Program Files (x86)\LucasArts\Star Wars Jedi Knight Jedi Academy\GameData\base\maps\JH3-TE.map"

"C:\Users\Lil One\Documents\WZMap\wzmap.exe" -light -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8 -v "C:\Program Files (x86)\LucasArts\Star Wars Jedi Knight Jedi Academy\GameData\base\maps\JH3-TE.map"

Bassicaly as I fail at bats how do I tell it "hey dipshit here is his base folder so you can read the textures and shaders"... XD

Well for me in this map :

 

 

designing maps is hard.. not many maps are well designed.. in my opinion none of my map are like that and i am sitting on them some time..

Id say your cloud city story maps were pretty damn well designed... I mean I dnk how they look in gtk ofcourse but in game the quality was great and a lot of fun!

I'm not exactly fimiliar with WZ. Untill this I'd never even heard of it to be honest. Got nothing against the idea but I need to finish JH3 first.

Well... For a dying engine, I'd have a hard time making a better case for a modding community hanging on and keeping it afloat. Even with what was lost, you're making a map that's up with the top mappers of all time. You're creating interest in the process of making a map, you're giving us something to anticipate, to weigh in on, to be a part of and to enjoy.

 

I think when SJC disappeared for the last time, it kind of hit me hard that such a mapping titan had moved on. A lot of times since then there were brave and bold starts to big projects, but few ever reached the light of day. I know you have the capacity to see this through, and I know I will see paradise one day

Thanks mate, tbh I never liked SJC. His map's were very pretty, but technically speaking were not well designed. Any who that's just my opinion on him. I don't consider myself one of the greats, I still see others like Szico etc and go "wow". I know I can do that quality given the right theme, but I still find myself learning new things.

Any ways i will do my best to keep you all involved with  the actual creation process. I have a member who is willing to do a sneak peak video shortly before the maps release. However I wonder would you all like maybe a video of my own going over the design process? 

Just a nightly update. Some work being done on the swimming pool. Anoek worked her ass off too tonight. She's working on the training sections and trial sections of the map. She's learning allot as she goes along. At times I feel bad as I expect her quality to match up to mine and she sufferes the stress of it. But she is progressing amazingly. I really hope that by the time she is ready to show you all her section that you will all show her some love! She works her ass off to learn everything much quicker then most of us did. Any ways here is a pic... Gonna do some caustics and other cool effects.
Public Swimming Pool!

The versions posted on here are fairly old and may have been compiled with intel c++, so that may be the reason you crashed (if you have an amd cpu).

 

The latest version (no longer using intel c++) is available on our assets repo, in this folder (the only file you should actually need if you downloaded the older version is WzMap.exe): https://github.com/Stoiss/WZassets/tree/master/WARZONE_TEST_BUILD/WzMap

Thanks mate! It is a brilliant step for some of us larger map makers !

So ran a few test, atleast as far as the q3map2 64 bit version that comes with gtk 1.6 is concerned Func groups and lights count as entities. I mean duh a light is an entity but apprently the coders removed the bit that use to make them not count against your overall count limit. The fix is sadly shader lighting. They don't get counted up etc untill Light compile. Func groups apparently are considered entities to it, however I am unsure if they will make you break the limit or are just ignored.

Afaik lights don't count as ents, unless you keep them (forget how, but I've seen it somewhere). Pretty sure func_groups are just for in-editor grouping

I always thought the same, however perhaps it's a problem with the latest q3map2? It seems that the newest 64 bit one DOES count them against you... :/ The proof is in the pudding, I removed a bunch of lights and the max entity error stopped and let me continue compiling.

Wait... light enities are counting as the nities as well?? I thought whole 3rd stage is for them...

How many lighting enities You have comparing to shaders that are light sources? 

 

And also .. light entity ..how exactly does it works?? Making lighting with the shaders doesnt create any entities just the lightning right?? I am confused right now...

How many Func_groups You have? I use them many times but they are pissing me off because when i just want to copy a brushes from func_group's and i end up with multiple single brush func_groups.. 

I had WAY to many light entities and func groups, about 4000 lights and 1300 func groups because of the same thing as your self. I solved by replacing a lot of my repetitive lighting such as the swoop track's blue side lighting with shaders. Turns out light entities do count, however shader lighting doesn't as they are not added up and inserted into the entity list until the 3rd stage "lighting". So while you will always have some uses for entity lights, they sadly do add to your count and you're better off to use shader lighting.

Small update -  The map is back on track after having to rework to overcome some different compiler errors. Nothing to worry about. Any who here is a couple shot of the public sector of the map. Just so I don't get a few folks saying this doesn't look like JH at all, please read some of the prior posts. The idea has been expanded on using a tram station to take you to a more public side of this cloud city like structure. This section is the public area's including a Casino, Swimming Pool and intense training!

Most of those smaller doors are just fake aesthetics's but some one does scream at you and tell you to go away if you try to go in! XD I've never been a fan of fake doors but in spots like this it's a nice detail and a bit of fun interactivity. 
It's still a little rough lighting wise. The final product will clean this up.

Alright so I went to compile tonight and hit the max map entities error. So ok i've got a lot of func groups, I ungrouped them all, still hit the error, ok next largest group was the lights... erased them all it goes away... O_O... now for those of you REALLY familiar with this engine, lights are not suppose to count against you during compile... So, wtf?

Basically through all of my many years of experience I am truly for once stumped.... Why the fuck are my light entities counting against overall entity count during my meta compile. Yet every source says they don't, that they are filtered out as a separate thing. I've tried the Wzmap.exe, that pos just crashes constantly since I don't have the compatible cpu socket apparently...

I wont even try to hide it, by most favored project and possibly my crown jewel hinges on figuring this out... The sense of desperation is high, every moment of my free time I've given up into this project (which is day and night atm literally I sleep 3 hours and get up and keep going between work) is falling apart in front of me because of some  random wtf situation...

So has any one figured out how to use it and it not just instantly crash?

but, but...they have them temples and enclaves...

Well... Now they have homes and hot dog stands! Oh and a bar! XD Obi will be pleased!

In-game:

• Entity limit is 1024, but players, lightsabers and bodyque take up around 100 entities or so, so the functional limit is more like 900.
• Lights do not count, they are removed during compilation of the map.
• ref_tag, info_null, target_position, info_notnull do not count, they are removed after the map is loaded by the game.
• worldspawn and weather entities do not count, it's not treated as an entity by the game and aren't spawned.
• NPC_Spawner (and all derivative types) are removed from the entity list after they have finished spawning all of their NPCs.

q3map2/Radiant:

• Entity limit is 2048
• Everything counts, including worldspawn, lights, and func_group

There might be a version of q3map2 that is compiled to have higher entity limits, maybe @@UniqueOne's wzmap has a higher entity limit?

It would be great if so. I'm going to see what exactly I have minus lights and the other non count ones. I know I have quiet a few func groups, kind of stupid for them to count imo but w/e.

So during compile I got that old damn Max map entities bs. Easilly solved by just undoing some func groups and or combining them. The question is though which entities count against this list. I know light entities and Misc models don't count against the IN game entity max, but what about compile time? I was always under the assumption that Lights don't count against you? >.> Will really suck if I have to switch over to full shader lighting as I just never have personally liked it's effect some times and it jacks the light compile through the damn roof...

So if any one has a definitive list of which ones DONT count against the max map entity list during compile that'd be helpful for the future.

never personally understood the Jedi Home bit tbh, but hey, quality new maps, so why complain?

Because Jedi need homes too

This. Though I did manage to BSP compile a huge 128000 x 128000 map a long time ago (can't remember the height, maybe 32000 or 64000). If the calculations are correct (64 = 1.80 m), that amounts to about 3.6 x 3.6 km. I seem to remember it took me 13 minutes of running from the south-east corner to the north-west corner of the map

yea I've done some like desert style simple maps on request a few times. They just wanted a giant sand box, dunes with a few rock models etc. Named simply the dune sea. was 5 layers of the same piece stretching as far as you're allowed to in each direction in radiant X & Y Abut 512 -768 max for the dunes and just simple teleports to the north east south and west sections which were just the same terrain pieces rotated around. No need for blending, just simple shade angled sand. I want to say it was 28000 brushes when finished but took only like an hour to fully compile with a bounce 8. Granted the overall lighting scale was set to 4 to give the shadows a more blurry effect over the dunes. One of those times lowering the quality had a visual advantage.

The problem with a parachute in JKA, is that there are not many maps with such vast terrains. 

Vast terrains are a PAIN in JKA's engine.

O_< Little do they know there pack has already been spread out to other sources and modified like crazy... >.>

Sleek and boring. I say have BOTH sections in there. Sleek and with pipes. Details.. its all in the details.

 

 

 

And AngelModder, you forgot rgoer and mslaf. I'm still in contact with Raven. He works for UbiSoft in Quebec. I started playing JK2 with my 2 year old son on my lap. Sometimes I would let him take the controls...lol My son is 15 now. He loves JK but prefers CS GO. He has followed my footsteps. He maps CS GO levels. Go figure.... trailing off... back on topic. I like what you have done so far. Please port to JK2.

It's been a very long time since I've put any thing into JKO. I'm not sure I remember all of its limits etc. However for you good sir and a love of the still going JKO community I will do my best to port as much of the project as I can to JKO. Will suck a little bit on the note entities and compiling but I agree it would be a worth move and honestly a nice tip of the hat to all corners of the JK community.

As far as the swoop track is concerned that shot is before a lot of the details have gone in, just the general theme really was being displayed. Since then jump pads, obstacles guidance arrows on the walls and some piping has been added. Not the extreme huge piping as seen in the first draft but some piping none the less.

I've tried to set up boobytraps that players can use against each other, explosive conduits, oil slicks, fire, explosions, and of course blast-able barriers, even the walls deflect and bounce shots fired so shooting at your opponent is as dangerous to you as it is to others etc.

A small update status. I have managed to as mentioned get the map back down to around 11k brushes via some ase's and cleaning up of my work. Like many I get into idea's and just rush build, then I go back and refine and reappraise my concepts. As many of you may have noted along the way, what you first see is usually just the first draft. I'm constantly tweaking my work. Never fully satisfied. XD Any who the map is back to compiling normally and fine! And FPS is holding solidly on all systems so far. I set my cap at 250 and generally never go lower then about 190 with a couple of area's open plus a reflective surface near by.

I've tried to keep in mind not every one can use D glow and see or play around reflective surfaces. Hence the reflections will be enabled for those who want them by a plug in PK3.

Ohhh, I think that swoop track blends very seamlessly with the rest of the map. I approve.

 

Also, thank you for your hard work and commitment to a job well done. Your optimization process is really remarkable, your knowledge of the game engine itself is legendary, and I can't wait to see this gem released!

I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any means. I feel in many ways I didn't properly exploit the resources at my disposal at the peak of there existence. Sadly many tutorials were lost when Map Craft went down, and losing contact with Darth G hit me to a even a personal level. :/ Still miss the old man.  However gaining early tips from Him, Lk, Lazarus, Raven and Ydnar really helped me later on with this project.

As I sit here with my gf though trying to teach her the techniques she needs to complete the training section of the map I am quickly reminded of my own impatience and desire to reach an end product before I even know the right questions to ask. :/

Odd too be in that situation. I never reallt properly thanked any of them for the patience and guidance they gave me. Much less I didn't even appreciate it at the time as such folk were in some ways common place to learn from at the time. Or atleast so I thought.

I to often am reminded this is a dying engine, and a dying game. I suppose in many ways this is a tribute to what it can do and what has come before me. Without the insight of others, the practice of others, myself and infact all of us would not be able to create what we are now. The hindsight of those before us must not be overlooked. They pushed the limits that set our goals today.

From what I see, the goal of this project is merely to show that it is possible to transfer the assets of Jedi Outcast to Unreal Engine 4.

And because most of the assets are taken 1:1 from the original game, we can't expect that the whole thing will automatically transform into a better looking map.

The whole revising can be done later, when the main goal is done.

 

Personally, I think this is a great project. There is so much potential. It would be interesting to see every map reimagined into a modern engine.

And by the way, is it possible to put all the maps from a mission seamlessly together? I mean, for example, Kejim has two chapters, Kejim Base and Kejim Post.

 

Putting both together would make a complete map.Technically speaking yes, however in radiant it would be a logistical nightmare and in ue4 even worse, sections would need moved and rerouted as when you bring the maps together and connect them rooms from one would be going into the other rooms etc

Sadly Raven's designers didn't work from a blue print first as many of us more modern developers do. They just built with goals driving the layout.

Had a slight problem with the old Max edge error during meta compile. Not a problem or worry though, I'd been meaning to go through and make a lot of my columns, stairs, light fixtures etc models any who. So this just pushes me into it. Dropped the maps brush count from around 16k to just a little over 11 k with a bit of old elbow grease. Decreased it's physics calculation by 48% Which means better fps for you and less work for the compiler on my end. I love ase's. Another perk is when mofo's de-compile your map ase's get erased so they can't steal your pretty stuff!

Welllll I decided to make a quick few dozen changes to the concept of the swoop tracks look!!!

It might just be me but I feel the swoop tracks draw away from the whole Jedi Temple asthetic.

This is why people should read what I've typed up more often. This map expands on the original idea of JH(s). Meaning? Well you'll get the normal enclave area but then outside it's doors from the courtyard on you will be submerged into a more cloudcity feel. Incorporating cloud city also means bringing in aesthetics such as industrial area's at times as well as the sleek white designs we know and love from cloud city.

So this is part of what would be the public area of this sections. This whole facility as a fan fiction (perhaps my own personal feel of shadows description of the original JH after speaking to him) is a Cloud City Bespin like structure during the Republic era before or after the original trilogy. The enclave is just a section of this facility given to the Jedi to build a small enclave.

I feel it only makes sense that as politicians etc come to visit the Jedi for w/e reason they would need a place to chill. hence the hotel lobby and hotel cantina leading to the swoop track.