Maps made out of models, Lightmap aswell

[Guest KENNITHH]

So in the past few months I've been chatting with a guy called Nick in the Soldier of Fortune II community (I'm from there aswell)

 

And as we want to improve the graphics of the game , in this case maps , we search for ways that haven't been tried before or have been tried but cancelled.

 

Well mainly he stumbled onto something awesome which I knew about vaguely as I read it before on TrueCombatElite's forum by Damien.

What it briefly is is a map completely made out of models work and then bake the lightmap onto the model in 3dsmax or any other 3D Programming tool that allows this.

This results in very nice shadows but it is a tedious way.

 

Same thing can be done when your map made in GTKRadiant is done and in BSP format, import the map into a 3D program and bake your lightmap on it and export the model, import the model with the lightmap on it in GTKradiant and recompile.

 

I copied a part of our Skype conversation and put it here for additional info, he was going to make a tutorial but no promises, we'll have to see:

 

[26-3-2016 15:09:09] Nick : I create my models inside 3DS max, i mean the map (broken down in models), then uv unwrap them, create the texture. I then create a copy of the whole map. I then select each model separately, and apply a new uvw unwrap, where I downscale de UVW to 20%, so i can fit 25 objects on one light map. Once i'm done, i bake lights, and exports the model for GTK. I create the shader for the textures where the textures are scaled down aswell 5*5

the reason I use 5*5 instead of 2*2 or 4*4, it's because you can only scale the texture in the shader, and not offset it, so if you scale down a texture, the middle texture is centered, if you do a 4*4, the middle texture is split in 2. I could offset the texture in photoshop, but I found out that 5*5 gives good results anyways, so i stick to it

 

 

 

 

 

- Nick's maps in chronological order

 

@@Nick

 

- Nick's profile

https://jkhub.org/user/3195-nick/

 

- TrueCombatElite forum post by Damien (images are missing)

http://www.truecombatelite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2116&start=60

[Fuse294]

That last one looks perfect for a team deathmatch, Blasters only.

[mrwonko]

That's pretty neat, though yes, very tedious. Ideally you'd still place light_junior throughout the map to create a proper lightgrid so the "dynamic" lighting works (on playermodels, first-person weapons etc.), but the amount of work gets pretty obscene. I suppose with a plugin they could be exported as well? They're basically evenly spaced light probes.

[eezstreet]

This is fascinating. How are LODs and vis handled?

[mrwonko]

I can't imagine there being LOD. Typically you'd handle vis by placing antiportals, not sure if that happened here, far too few people know about proper vis setup.

[Guest KENNITHH]

@@eezstreet, I have no idea about the LOD but I think it won't have any as the .ase model will "turn into some kind of "brushes"" when its compiled.
But when using a model_static (not sure how it is in JK) you can use LODS as they get loaded into the map but also can be removed while misc_model can't.
Hope that makes sense?

 

About the VIS.. I was testing something a few days ago like a complete CSGO map as it is in CSGO, imported as a whole model in 3dsmax and export it as an .ASE then used as misc_model, which actually worked great as it keeps the UV pos etc ^^

 

 

but then I kinda stopped cause the map was a bit shitty for this test but I shouldve continued.. The idea was to also export the structures like walls etc as actual brushes and turn those into caulk to block VIS. I might be trying this this weekend but it's just I've been doing all bits and pieces of different stuff instead of focusing on 1 thing lately

 

EDIT: I compiled this map above now with the whole map as an .ase model and then brushwork as caulk to hide stuff, but that didn't work as I thought, unless you seperate it in multiple ase files probably

[minilogoguy18]

I like where this thread is going. It would be so rad if I could use Softimage for all the art and then just use Radiant for all the tech that would help me out a ton cause Radiant is seriously lacking in tools when it comes to 3d compared to a high end 3d package.

[ensiform]

You should not be using model statics for map geometry in place of regular model. They should be used sparingly for simple objects like the flag stands are. You can bake lods with regular models too afaik with certain q3map2 options.

[minilogoguy18]

I'm LOD-ing everything now a days, it may bloat the size of the pk3 but performance is much better. Every modeler and mapper here needs to hop on board and make LOD's for everything.

[Guest KENNITHH]

@@ensiform, are you saying misc_models can also have LODS? 

 

Oh one more thing I found some days ago, that tool I mentioned  before Wall Worm Model Tools, its main purpose is to make CSS/CSGO maps in 3dsmax. The thing is , those maps can be converted to our format of a .map.
Now what I actually wanted to say is it also has this tool called Brushify, which turns models into brushes (not a pro in exactly how but it does). This means that those .map exporters or via another route, you should be able to get those stuff as brushwork in a .map format. Hope that makes sense? As lots of those .map exporters that are around the net don't actually work for most stuff

 

Here's a link to it : https://wallworm.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

[Ramikad]

@@ensiform, are you saying misc_models can also have LODS? 

 

To my knowledge, only misc_model_static, and perhaps other dynamic models, like misc_model_breakable, but not sure.

[ensiform]

@@ensiform, are you saying misc_models can also have LODS? 

 

Oh one more thing I found some days ago, that tool I mentioned  before Wall Worm Model Tools, its main purpose is to make CSS/CSGO maps in 3dsmax. The thing is , those maps can be converted to our format of a .map.

Now what I actually wanted to say is it also has this tool called Brushify, which turns models into brushes (not a pro in exactly how but it does). This means that those .map exporters or via another route, you should be able to get those stuff as brushwork in a .map format. Hope that makes sense? As lots of those .map exporters that are around the net don't actually work for most stuff

 

Here's a link to it : https://wallworm.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

They can have LODs if you manually make different LOD versions with _1 etc.  But just walking at a further distance away doesn't use them I'm pretty sure its only for different settings giving lower LODs.

 

Since when can you convert displacements to Quake 3 map format though?

[Xycaleth]

Models baked into the map (misc_models) won't have LODs baked in as well. The BSP format doesn't support such a thing. The only way you can get LODs is by using misc_model_static.

[Guest KENNITHH]

Yeah as I thought Xycaleth, thanks for the enlightenment.

 

Since when can you convert displacements to Quake 3 map format though?

​You cant do that, only as a model. Well, actually you can with MilkShape but it gets ugly

But I was mainly talking about the walls and such, I shouldve made myself more clear

[Archangel35757]

@@ensiform, are you saying misc_models can also have LODS? 

 

Oh one more thing I found some days ago, that tool I mentioned  before Wall Worm Model Tools, its main purpose is to make CSS/CSGO maps in 3dsmax. The thing is , those maps can be converted to our format of a .map.

Now what I actually wanted to say is it also has this tool called Brushify, which turns models into brushes (not a pro in exactly how but it does). This means that those .map exporters or via another route, you should be able to get those stuff as brushwork in a .map format. Hope that makes sense? As lots of those .map exporters that are around the net don't actually work for most stuff

 

Here's a link to it : https://wallworm.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

 

 

The guy (from Argentina) who made the .map exporter (and others that are on Sourceforge-- targeting SoF2 but work also for JK2/JK3...) for 3ds Max is one of my contacts on Skype.  If there are problems with the .map exporter then we need to document what needs fixing so I can send it to him.

 

@@KENNITHH -- there were some scripts for GMax (and it's Tempest mapping plugin) that created a Brush Modifier... not sure if it could be modified to work in 3ds Max.  Also there was the free Game Level Builder scripted plugins that allow you to create Quake 3 mapping geometry and export to .map format:

 

http://www.maple3d.com/MainFrameGLB3Page.htm

[Tempust85]

Sorry for the necro.

 

So I'm currently experimenting with models in my SP map using misc_model_static and unfortunately, LODs do not work except for geometry quality settings. How hard would it be to add LODs working based on player distance @@Xycaleth?

[Ramikad]

How do they not work? They seem to work fine for me, switching correctly in relation to the player's distance. I'm not sure about the lighting though.

 

r_lodbias 0 to 3 should confirm you that the LODs actually work, as it's basically the same as the Geometry Quality setting. Try playing around with r_lodScale and r_lodCurveError, as they control the distance at which the objects show their lower quality LODs.

[Xycaleth]

I'm not sure why LODs wouldn't be working with misc model static. This entity just adds a bit of information saying "draw a model here". The game then draws the model there. The LODs should work as usual as you would expect for MD3 models.

[Smoo]

So in the past few months I've been chatting with a guy called Nick in the Soldier of Fortune II community (I'm from there aswell)

 

And as we want to improve the graphics of the game , in this case maps , we search for ways that haven't been tried before or have been tried but cancelled.

 

Well mainly he stumbled onto something awesome which I knew about vaguely as I read it before on TrueCombatElite's forum by Damien.

What it briefly is is a map completely made out of models work and then bake the lightmap onto the model in 3dsmax or any other 3D Programming tool that allows this.

This results in very nice shadows but it is a tedious way.

 

Same thing can be done when your map made in GTKRadiant is done and in BSP format, import the map into a 3D program and bake your lightmap on it and export the model, import the model with the lightmap on it in GTKradiant and recompile.

 

I copied a part of our Skype conversation and put it here for additional info, he was going to make a tutorial but no promises, we'll have to see:

 

[26-3-2016 15:09:09] Nick : I create my models inside 3DS max, i mean the map (broken down in models), then uv unwrap them, create the texture. I then create a copy of the whole map. I then select each model separately, and apply a new uvw unwrap, where I downscale de UVW to 20%, so i can fit 25 objects on one light map. Once i'm done, i bake lights, and exports the model for GTK. I create the shader for the textures where the textures are scaled down aswell 5*5

the reason I use 5*5 instead of 2*2 or 4*4, it's because you can only scale the texture in the shader, and not offset it, so if you scale down a texture, the middle texture is centered, if you do a 4*4, the middle texture is split in 2. I could offset the texture in photoshop, but I found out that 5*5 gives good results anyways, so i stick to it

 

 

 

 

 

- Nick's maps in chronological order

 

@@Nick

 

- Nick's profile

https://jkhub.org/user/3195-nick/

 

- TrueCombatElite forum post by Damien (images are missing)

http://www.truecombatelite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2116&start=60

beautiful

[Tempust85]

How is sof2's fork of OpenJK going these days? Some neat progress was done last I looked.

[Guest KENNITHH]

How is sof2's fork of OpenJK going these days? Some neat progress was done last I looked.

 

I have no idea, Ensiform is working on it atm, you should ask him what he has done

 

But if you saw pictures of weapons and stuff, thats our mod, I've been working on some maps and mainly effects now so slow progress on our little mod

[Langerd]

So in the past few months I've been chatting with a guy called Nick in the Soldier of Fortune II community (I'm from there aswell)

 

And as we want to improve the graphics of the game , in this case maps , we search for ways that haven't been tried before or have been tried but cancelled.

 

Well mainly he stumbled onto something awesome which I knew about vaguely as I read it before on TrueCombatElite's forum by Damien.

What it briefly is is a map completely made out of models work and then bake the lightmap onto the model in 3dsmax or any other 3D Programming tool that allows this.

This results in very nice shadows but it is a tedious way.

 

Same thing can be done when your map made in GTKRadiant is done and in BSP format, import the map into a 3D program and bake your lightmap on it and export the model, import the model with the lightmap on it in GTKradiant and recompile.

 

I copied a part of our Skype conversation and put it here for additional info, he was going to make a tutorial but no promises, we'll have to see:

 

[26-3-2016 15:09:09] Nick : I create my models inside 3DS max, i mean the map (broken down in models), then uv unwrap them, create the texture. I then create a copy of the whole map. I then select each model separately, and apply a new uvw unwrap, where I downscale de UVW to 20%, so i can fit 25 objects on one light map. Once i'm done, i bake lights, and exports the model for GTK. I create the shader for the textures where the textures are scaled down aswell 5*5

the reason I use 5*5 instead of 2*2 or 4*4, it's because you can only scale the texture in the shader, and not offset it, so if you scale down a texture, the middle texture is centered, if you do a 4*4, the middle texture is split in 2. I could offset the texture in photoshop, but I found out that 5*5 gives good results anyways, so i stick to it

 

 

 

 

 

- Nick's maps in chronological order

 

@@Nick

 

- Nick's profile

https://jkhub.org/user/3195-nick/

 

- TrueCombatElite forum post by Damien (images are missing)

http://www.truecombatelite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2116&start=60

You mean making maps like Unreal Tournament 4? -I mean,, it is the newest engine.. but i mean making maps.. First creating everything with cubes,shapes to create clip brushes.. sketch of the map. But all of them would be only blocking player and enities but later we would turn them to be invisible. And later on we would create whole map using models. 

 

http://kotaku.com/watch-sketches-turn-into-an-unreal-tournament-map-1691093242

[yo_kirknight]

I need help on converting bsp to obj

[Morabis]

I need help on converting bsp to obj

 

As far as I know for that you need to convert the bsp file to .map format first then that one to .ase and finally there is an online tool where you can convert .ase to .obj. 

[mrwonko]

No, you convert directly from .bsp to .ase. When converting from .map, you also need to take the step to .bsp first.