tbh

[eezstreet]

This site and its staff are kinda ridiculous.

The amount of off-topic bullshit that allows to occur in threads has reached maximum capacity, and people seem to be under the impression that the rules don't exist at all. I've seen blatant disrespect from people, frequent thread hijacking, and various other nonsense. Various people (it's more than one, and I'm not listing names because frankly, I don't feel like having this thread being fucking derailed like a million others) have caused threads to be pointlessly derailed, and yet the staff does absolutely nothing about it. No slap on the wrist. Remember when Ory'Hara was banned? I do. Does anyone remember that?

 

It seems like the staff has their priorities all wrong. Instead of focusing on getting the community stable, we see voting on new backgrounds, "featured pictures", asinine tutorial categories, "tutorial days", and all kinds of other random crap getting thrown around, instead of enforcing the rules. And I mean, what about the Porting Discussion? The community brought up very valid points to the moderators, and everyone more or less agreed on one set of rules, only for the staff to just slightly rewrite their rules.

 

I remember a discussion long ago (before JKH launched even) where people discussed the possibility of the nonsense (at the time it was called the Spam Forum) forum leaking out into other areas of the forum and causing people to become disgusted with the site. Does anyone else remember that?

[Futuza]

Although your point is entirely valid, it doesn't really bother me (most of the time) since it tends to stay in the nonsense thread and only occasionally leaks out in breaks that last for like 1 or 2 posts, most of which are usually just in good fun.  However, if you want the forums to be more serious, yeah the moderators are going to have to be a lot more harsh.  If someone even goes off topic posting a image macro, for example, in a thread where someone is asking help with programming at least a warn is necessary.  The only real way to control this sort of thing is to be very harsh, which is something I don't really like all that much.  You guys are too fun.

[therfiles]

Frankly, your points are valid. It's true. We get off-topic a lot. Immaturity and foolishness can sometimes get the better of us. But this is a hobby, something we do in our recreation. We come here to celebrate the JK series, to keep it alive. To keep posts and behaviors in finely marked areas is absolutely ridiculous. We all love the JK series - that's what pulls us together. If this nonsense is really what we are blaming on pulling us apart and ruining this forum, then perhaps there is a deeper issue, something we should address. To expect the staff to go through each topic with a fine tooth brush, pruning every single off topic post ceases to make this a community - where personalities and ideas overlap to create a comprehensive joy of modding, of gaming. It becomes a place where no one enjoys being, where no one wants to share, to contribute, to hang out. And if we lose that, that which makes this community worth bookmarking, worth checking daily, then why are we still posting? Seriously.

 

And to be blunt, we all get off-topic. To point your finger at a list of names, or groups of people, is absolutely ridiculous. Are there members who act more ridiculous then others? Absolutely. Does that mean they are the enemy the deserves to be destroyed? Certainly not. There has been lots of drama recently. Will simply banning and slapping the wrists of the offenders fix the problem? No! Because that stigma of anger and unease will always linger. Resolving conflicts as peacefully as we can is the staff's first priority.

 

We've got one prominent rule here at JKHub: Don't be a jerk. As staff, our goal is to facilitate healthy conversation. We crack down hard on innapropriate and offensive content, because that's just stupid. Hurting others and making their stay here undesirable is just plain cruel. Do we split topics as it is needed? Sure. As much as we could? Of course not. Because if you tamper too much with the discussion, you lose the heart and message behind it.

 

And yes. We could focus on rooting out the bad members and over-moderate every post that someone took the time to type. Our, we could focus on making this place better. Involving the community, in proposed events like Tutorial days, competitions, and working together to find a new background image draw us closer together. Ripping threads apart and censoring our members for every "excess" word they type does not.

 

In short, you can criticize us for not banning every offender, for not viciously deleting every off-topic post. In the end, such acts hurt the community far more than it helps it. And honestly, we're open to practical suggestions. We are all volunteers, and there are certainly things we can improve.

[ent]

What do you offer?

[Shadzy]

This may damage my ability to have some kind of rapport with you @@eezstreet but some of your points is making you think this forum is the Microsoft Technical Support forum or something.

 

1. Things going off-topic - Whilst this point is valid, I also believe in a little moderation would go along way in organisation. Saying this though, its an open forum, peoples efforts can be appreciated with more than just one word, and whilst ''serious'' topics shouldn't go derailed, we are not machines, we are humans! At the end of it if the OP did not want spam in a thread made, this could be announced, maybe its an idea for threads regarding technical issues or something or coding/modding/skining issues that spam is not needed (Point made by the OP), maybe this stuff can be regulated but that's about the height of it, without restricting posts etc.

 

2. Feedback given to moderators in that thread - All feedback needs to be adapted in the manner depicted? Its not possible that feedback is not the food for thought for when the change comes about in that/another form, so its met!?! I am sure JKHub know what to input into the Rules to make sure that it is all uploaders responsibility especially when you pointed it out the first time?

[eezstreet]

All I'm saying is that I think the amount of sheer offtopicness and questionable decisions is really damaging this site's integrity. I can't go a day without seeing immaturity ruin threads.while I'm perfectly ok with some threads being a little off topic at times, there are truly tons of times where it would be much better suited for the nonsense forum.

 

And then of course there's harrassments and stuff like that which I had to eventually disable my PMs over.

I have a feeling that the staff just can't enforce their rules well enough. I feel like they aren't as tough as they could be.

[ChalklYne]

I'd say I post maybe 45% of all the off-topic stuff on this site XD

Thing is, I post about 98% of it in the Nonsense section.

 

 

All I'm saying is that I think the amount of sheer offtopicness and questionable decisions is really damaging this site's integrity.

 

Yet somehow the site has had more new members and traffic than ever. I've seen tons of people come in here out of nowhere and get good advice to finish thier mods. Advice on advancing in a gaming carer. Information about specifics of Star Wars canon. I'd say the integrity isn't damaged too much when they see us having a bit o fun

 

 

I can't go a day without seeing immaturity ruin threads.while I'm perfectly ok with some threads being a little off topic at times, there are truly tons of times where it would be much better suited for the nonsense forum.

 

I literally have no life 0_0 I am here more than damn near anyone. I really don't see this happening too much. There is a few people who take it further than one post, and I am positive that even starting this topic, you have slapped them on the wrist enough for them to know to keep people's threads rather tidy. I dislike my threads being all disorganized and full of insanity, but welcome the occasional pic or gif. Thing is, they usually pertain to the topic. Think about my Starkiller thread. I would say 25% of it, is people posting funny pics about what the newest head reminds them of. It's all in good fun, and kinda sticking to the topic. Yet to someone else, they might consider it being off topic and harassing. It kinda goes inline with learning to take criticism. I agree threads should be tidy, yet I haven't seen them spiral out of control except in the Nonsense. Then again, I don't check too much on the Ads, Coding and Scripting sections, so maybe I missed a few of what you are referring to. Not saying it doesn't exist, just saying I haven't seen it too much.

 

And then of course there's harrassments and stuff like that which I had to eventually disable my PMs over.

Harassment? If you think of the Starkiller thread, if you think of @ and his stuff, I have seen some people step out of line briefly, but we usually drop it before it gets to the point of harassment. I can't speak for whatever is going on in your PM's, but those people should burn in Hell =P I have seen people on MULTIPLE occasions almost ASK for the harassment the way they talk and things they say, and we have always treated them decent. Deviance has gotten on my nerves a time or two, but i am still working with him personally on my mod, and have had his back on multiple occasions. I see more of a friendly atmosphere than what you are suggesting. Then again, I don't have an all seeing eye so, grain of salt u  know?

 

I have a feeling that the staff just can't enforce their rules well enough. I feel like they aren't as tough as they could be.

 

I'll be damned if I don't disagree with you again. XD 

 

I've seen staff snap off on people when they deserve it, ban people when they deserve it, and I would say that as Staff, as volunteers, as our peers just stepping up to the plate and doing what they can to keep order here, I'd say they ALL do an outstanding job. A few things might fall through the cracks here or there, I just am not aware of it. The whole not as tough as they should be thing, just kind of starts to take some of the fun out of being here. 

 

 

 

Now let me try and make a valid point out of all this...

 

If someone gets ribbed a bit for their ridiculous post, or less than par work, I think that is just human nature and it is all in good fun. If someone gets to the point of being  harassed, it's not the Staff's fault they are being harassed, it's whoever is doing it. Must we need babysitters? I have seen some people get ribbed a bit too much, and I stepped in and said something positive and tried to get back on topic. I trust us all to treat each other like friends. Also, people like their threads tidy, so just be grown ass people and try to stay on-topic for the most part. Still, this place is a community, and a thriving one at that, let's still have fun with it all. I just don't think it's on the staff's shoulders to make us stay in line, we are responsible for our own actions. 

 

 

 

I appreciate how seriously you take the site and it's credibility though @@eezstreet very cool to see

[Shadzy]

And then of course there's harrassments and stuff like that which I had to eventually disable my PMs over.

I have a feeling that the staff just can't enforce their rules well enough. I feel like they aren't as tough as they could be.

 

Do the staff know about this?

[Link]

Do the staff know about this?

 

Unless it was reported to someone specific, I've not seen anything come through relating to that.

[Circa]

We don't know what occurs via PM with everyone. Only if we absolutely need to, do we look through someone's PMs, and that has never happened as far as I know. 

 

I think a lot of our moderation we do goes unnoticed. We aren't on here every second of every day, so if something happens that needs dealt with, you might see it at first and think "Why didn't the staff do anything about that?", but in reality none of us had seen it yet, and we get to it eventually. We've hidden a surplus of posts lately in fact. I try to keep threads on topic, but I don't discourage conversation. If someone posts something slightly off-topic but in good taste, I let it slide. If someone starts a whole new topic in a thread, then I deal with it when I see it. 

 

 

Our goal as staff is to not "over-moderate" in which it hinders the community to discuss in a fun and civil way. Of course that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye on things that need attention. If there is any specific thing you refer to, please let me know privately.

 

As far as banning members, that is a last resort. Banning someone shouldn't be done unless they break our rules multiple times and know that they are doing so already. 

 

 

I seem to remember a similar thread being made when JKHub first launched, except it was about the opposite problem. 

[Onysfx]

The freedom feeling of the site is what makes it great to be here. Rule breaking isn't in black and white, not even just different shades of grey, it's more complex than that. It's up to us to decide what is right and wrong, (well okay, there are some obvious things, but you get what I mean).

 

I definitely appreciate your concern for the site @@eezstreet, but I think JKHub is a very stable and friendly place . Want proof? Visit the halomaps.org forums. It's a nightmare. (well, from past experience years ago, I think it still is ).

 

For me, JKHub is really the first internet forum I've really become part of, (unless you count the makermod forums, but it's a ghost town there most of the time ).

 

 

"Remember, if you treat people like children that need to obey the rules, they'll behave like children."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Someone

[spior]

I prefer this over a "no fun allowed" always-on-topic circlejerk.

Also this thread reminded me that I haven't seen Inyri in a while.

[CrimsonStrife]

The amount of off-topic bullshit that allows to occur in threads has reached maximum capacity, and people seem to be under the impression that the rules don't exist at all. I've seen blatant disrespect from people, frequent thread hijacking, and various other nonsense. Various people (it's more than one, and I'm not listing names because frankly, I don't feel like having this thread being fucking derailed like a million others) have caused threads to be pointlessly derailed, and yet the staff does absolutely nothing about it. No slap on the wrist. Remember when Ory'Hara was banned? I do. Does anyone remember that?

I was responsible for the banning of Ory'Hara after he was blatantly disrespectful, and then refused to work with me to resolve a rather silly issue, and I have no idea how he was finally allowed back in. IN FACT, for a long time, Caelum and I watched for him to make new accounts and would ban them as well.  I was probably one of the harsher of the moderators, and I got a lot of flak for it.  I distinctly recall there being a huge stink mostly from Ory'Hara himself, when he was banned.

I actually wanted to take moderation far more seriously than most of the other staff (there was a brief stint in my early days where I kept trying to moderate the nonsense forum), because frankly, I was not in it to make friends.  I had a "job" to do.

 

But when it comes down to it, @@Circa has a point, often times it is just a lack of online staff that delay a moderation, and unless you report something we (or rather now, "they") may or may not see it.  IN FACT, I can think of numerous times that @@Circa has relocated nonsense threads, hidden them, or trimmed derailed ones.

 

But seriously kiddies, keep nonsense in the nonsense forum, where it belongs.

 

Also this thread reminded me that I haven't seen Inyri in a while.

 

I don't expect to.  Not only did she retire from modding, but she not so long ago had some personal issues arise, that I suspect have had major changes to her life.  Heck, I barely hear from her at all anymore.

[eezstreet]

All I'm saying is that we tend to get sidetracked in threads, and it may be more of a detriment than simple fun.

As for harassment - every time I made the suggestion that a requester give references, they'd usually PM me and tell me they put references in the thread. And then continually ask me when I'm going to work on their request. I was away for a weekend one time and I had 7+ PMs from one guy who kept repeating himself - "Hi, I put references in the thread"

 

It isn't any one person that harrasses me in general though, it's this forum as a whole. I get constantly bombarded with ridiculous PMs that either a) should be threads or b) can be solved with a simple Google. Or in contrast, I get requested to do mods for people. I guess someone will say - "Hey, you should be happy, these people come to you specifically for help or their requests instead of asking everyone" - Besides this argument being flawed (If everyone made a thread perhaps they could use search and I wouldn't have to repeat myself, right?), I simply don't have time to reply to every single PM or take up every request. In lieu of telling people repeatedly "Maybe you should do this yourself? It's a one line edit, and everything you need to make the edit is on the Hub already", I've disabled PMs entirely.

[Circa]

Unfortunately, disabling is probably the only solution. There's no filter that lets us see PMs before they go to people. That would defeat the "private" part of a PM. 

[eezstreet]

Unfortunately, disabling is probably the only solution. There's no filter that lets us see PMs before they go to people. That would defeat the "private" part of a PM.

 

Indeed, and ignoring is useless as they come from tons of different people.

[Futuza]

Sounds like you have a bad case of being a celebrity eezstreet.

[ChalklYne]

yeah, and @@CrimsonStrife, sounds like u were a bit of a douche. XD

 

I haven't seen inyri in forever and it sucks. Or Corto. And that fills my heart with shame. where is corto?

 

I used to PM eezstrret. and now that is all wrecked!

 

That will be all. Sorry to derail the "dont derail" thread

[eezstreet]

sorry, but stuff like this bothers me:

http://jkhub.org/topic/3347-wip/

 

and you aren't one of the people I'm talking about, @@ChalklYne

[ChalklYne]

Sweet =)

 

Because I do try to keep things on track but I am just a little short bussed

 

And i agree that thread went haywire

[Futuza]

sorry, but stuff like this bothers me:

http://jkhub.org/topic/3347-wip/

 

and you aren't one of the people I'm talking about, @@ChalklYne

That's one that I agree could use a little clean up, nothing big, just a bunch of MIA posts...

[Link]

Since returning to my duties, the amount of posts that have been hidden by staff is actually surprisingly high. We do take great strides to hide/move/split content that isn't relevant to the discussion but we'll always miss some, and that is stuff that other users will see rather than the work we've actually done.

[Shadzy]

sorry, but stuff like this bothers me:

http://jkhub.org/topic/3347-wip/

 

and you aren't one of the people I'm talking about, @@ChalklYne

 

You refer to the off topic-ness of one comment that wasn't the OP's?

Id agree pretty pointless in the WIP thread or any other, other than non-sense!!

I think to moderate this would require the convo to have the chance of remaining off topic for 2-3 replies before its dealt with, could just be a random comment, I still think it should be handled like in your post when you mention like this:

 

Off topic comment

 

Sorry but Ontopic comment

 

Understood your point better!!

Things could be missed though so as SilLink said above, we will only see the missed opportunities, not fair to judge!

[CrimsonStrife]

yeah, and @@CrimsonStrife, sounds like u were a bit of a douche. XD

 

I wasn't, I was a moderator, there is a difference. I banned Ory'Hara because when accused of being disrespectful through his nonsense speak, he decided to attack me directly. Even at that point, I still gave him the option to clarify himself and work with me to resolve it, at which point hostility continued. So I locked the threads and banned him. And I took action to enforce the ban. That isn't being a douche, it's being a moderator. I always gave members the option to challenge my judgment or work with me to resolve an issue, which is why only one Ban has ever been carried out.

BUT I also didn't take any crap, if you couldn't be civil and work with me, then you were gone.

I was harsh, but fair. And that's really how moderation should be done.

[ChalklYne]

Ahhh I see.. so you weren't a douche, you were a necessary situational douche XD

Tomato Potatoe

 

You should see all the crap I give the staff XD

 

And let's not bring up the ransom note to the White Elephant, Nor my mass emails to all the staff members about granting me Powah lmao!

 

Good times. 

 

Point I'm making is that as long as it's all in good taste stepping a bit outta line is no worries. 

 

I still love you @@CrimsonStrife. Truly madly deeply