Improving Knights of the Force

[Lancelot]

First off, please don't hate me for that. It is something I was thinking about a long time ago and certain circumstances inspired me to start this topic and share my idea.

Because it's not intented to be a request, I put it in this section instead. And please, if you don't like this mod, keep your language civil (no F-bombs and foul language).

 

Okay, now to the topic:

 

Although Knights of the Force (K**F for me) is still one of the most hated mods, if not THE most hated mod for Jedi Academy, there are still many people around who actually like it and still use it, especially for the menus.

I thought with some adjustments, this mod can be reinvented in some way. I thought about removing the controverse stuff (e.g. things the developer might not had the permissions for), the CD menu and everything that isn't

actually needed to make the key features of this mod work. Removing those rather unnecessary stuff would debloat this mod by a huge amount. In addition, many backgrounds of the ingame menus could be redesigned

to distinguish this mod from what it actually looked like.

 

And there are some ideas I thought could "improve" this mod a little bit more:

 

- Changing the title of the mod to a more fitting one.

- Adding more characters to the selection menus. Because many The Force Awakens models have been made, this

might be a good opportunity to add them there. (Keep in mind that the mod was aimed to have the whole "saga" in it).

- Replace many of the bad looking maps or models with better versions that have been made already.

- Keeping the popular ingame menus of the mod.

- Make this mod an actual mod for Jedi Academy and not a "seperate game" that contains the assets-files.

- Using OpenJK to eliminate bugs and open new possibilities.

 

I know this might sound ridicoulus from me, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on that in the hope that somebody might agree with me.

[McGroose]

I did at one point try to replace all of old custom models in KOTF 2.0 with newer ones. I recall that I managed to replace all of the Sith and some of the Jedi.

 

Let me tell you, it's not worth it. First of all, KOTF's layout is a complete mess. It took me way longer than I should have to figure out where the assets for the character models were. Second of all, if we create something that looks like an improvement to KOTF, it won't be KOTF. That mod is just a bunch of stolen content without permission from mod creators. No one here is going to upload a KOTF patch. At least, I really doubt it.

[Teancum]

If you're actually serious about updating KotF, the firs thing you should do is go through every map, character, etc and find the original author. Seek out permission and try to let them know you want to credit everyone, and that you're not the original author. Seeing that everyone gets proper credit was one of the huge issues with KotF. Other than that I think it's a fairly solid mod. It would definitely take some work to be sure, but if people got the credit and if permission were given for their stuff I could see this being a mod that people don't hate.

 

As far as actually updating it goes, the biggest issue would be sorting out the absolute mess of PK3 files. Adding OpenJK support and even coding it to read both /base and a /kotf folder wouldn't be difficult. Since OpenJK already addresses 99% of bugs and gameplay issues I think it's a must if you were to continue it.

[DrXann]

When the mod gets installed through its installer where do the files get stored.The whole mod is more of collection of various models, maps, and weapons(which were stolen) into a mod with special features.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

First off, please don't hate me for that. It is something I was thinking about a long time ago and certain circumstances inspired me to start this topic and share my idea.

Because it's not intented to be a request, I put it in this section instead. And please, if you don't like this mod, keep your language civil (no F-bombs and foul language).

 

Okay, now to the topic:

 

Although Knights of the Force (K**F for me) is still one of the most hated mods, if not THE most hated mod for Jedi Academy, there are still many people around who actually like it and still use it, especially for the menus.

I thought with some adjustments, this mod can be reinvented in some way. I thought about removing the controverse stuff (e.g. things the developer might not had the permissions for), the CD menu and everything that isn't

actually needed to make the key features of this mod work. Removing those rather unnecessary stuff would debloat this mod by a huge amount. In addition, many backgrounds of the ingame menus could be redesigned

to distinguish this mod from what it actually looked like.

 

And there are some ideas I thought could "improve" this mod a little bit more:

 

- Changing the title of the mod to a more fitting one.

- Adding more characters to the selection menus. Because many The Force Awakens models have been made, this

might be a good opportunity to add them there. (Keep in mind that the mod was aimed to have the whole "saga" in it).

- Replace many of the bad looking maps or models with better versions that have been made already.

- Keeping the popular ingame menus of the mod.

- Make this mod an actual mod for Jedi Academy and not a "seperate game" that contains the assets-files.

- Using OpenJK to eliminate bugs and open new possibilities.

 

I know this might sound ridicoulus from me, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on that in the hope that somebody might agree with me.

Since you worked on it, I have to say, you're VERY ambitious for taking everything Tim did wrong and make it right, Lance.

 

 

I did at one point try to replace all of old custom models in KOTF 2.0 with newer ones. I recall that I managed to replace all of the Sith and some of the Jedi.

 

Let me tell you, it's not worth it. First of all, KOTF's layout is a complete mess. It took me way longer than I should have to figure out where the assess for the character models were. Second of all, if we create something that looks like an improvement to KOTF, it won't be KOTF. That mod is just a bunch of stolen content without permission from mod creators. No one here is going to upload a KOTF patch. At least, I really doubt it.

Well, you never know. Unlike Tim, everyone who tries to improve it could get permission from all of them (If some of them still have emails, that is. There must be another way if not.) as well as do what they can to overall improve it. Like what @@Teancum suggested.

[Daedra]

Since you worked on it, I have to say, you're VERY ambitious for taking everything Tim did wrong and make it right, Lance.

 

 

Well, you never know. Unlike Tim, everyone who tries to improve it could get permission from all of them (If some of them still have emails, that is. There must be another way if not.) as well as do what they can to overall improve it. Like what @@Teancum suggested.

 

If they can't obtain permission, remove that Modification and replace it with something which has permission, as a placeholder. There are some Mods that allow use as long as credit is given, so those would be acceptable.

[Fuse294]

I thought I was gonna flip my desk (and probably break the new one I just put together) when I saw the title mentioning the 'Forbidden Text' that is KOTF, something that probably should have been cast into a endless abyss long ago.

 

HOWEVER, the topic didn't go in the direction I expected, so I was pleasantly surprised. Admittedly I only tried the mod twice, I can't remember much of my time playing cos it was messing around with the NPC functions.

 

I would suggest first shelving ALL the stolen content (which would probably leave you with very little other than the base files that tim bothered to actually make himself), (remove it all and put it to one side), THEN ask around for permission on new updated versions of the models you know exist (which you mentioned you'd done for personal use?)

 

I would also suggest doing away with the name, it's something I consider Taboo, instead give it your own name so it's reputation won't start out as an extremely poor one.

[Lancelot]

@

Remember my post in the KOTF "Experiences" topic? It seems that my post caused a change of mind in me. First I really hated that mod, then I just hated it and now I'm thinking "This mod could have been so much more."

Knights of the Force has become a synonym in the community for badness, illegality and criminality. This has to change.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

@@Lancelot Yes, I remember. And I must admit, there are some things that are just PERFECT that only that mod has. Even though it is messed up in some ways, it doesn't mean it can't be fixed, right? If it's in the hands of someone who KNOWS how to make things right, then I say make it right and at least clean the stains of the bad taste Tim has left on it off.

@, Of course. If permission can't be obtained, then by all means use a placeholder.

[Jolly]

You are better off making a new modification similar to KOTF. Like @@McGroose said, KOTF's layout is a complete mess. I bet you could try to get the JKhub community together and make a compilation of content made by the talent of JKhub and make something similar and without a doubt better than KOTF. That would be a dream.

[Raz0r]

I have a better idea.

Fuck KotF right off, contribute to JKE.

 

You don't just "improve" KotF. You remake it from scratch properly.

Aside from the legal and ethical issues with KotF, it's such a horribly made mod. You are seriously better off starting from scratch.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

If I may pitch in, even if it's remade from scratch, I'd like some things that are like KotF, such as the options for an almost guaranteed saber lock. I know you can use the g_saberlockrandomness 1 code, but when KotF used it via menu options modification, whenever you set it to often, every single time, I almost always got into a Saber Lock. And I know I can do that by learning how to modify the menus files, but it seemed like it was modified just enough to be just right. Hence why KotF was used for fanfics on Youtube, including some of my own, as it had features that were PERFECT for machinima (That's the actual term, and I'm sure you guys heard of it) making. It was one of the few positives I loved about KotF.

[Futuza]

I have a better idea.

Fuck KotF right off, contribute to JKE.

 

You don't just "improve" KotF. You remake it from scratch properly.

 

 

Aside from the legal and ethical issues with KotF, it's such a horribly made mod. You are seriously better off starting from scratch.

^^

Seriously. This is what JKE is. Contribute to that instead.

 

Besides how you going to get Tim's permission to mod his mod?

[Teancum]

In regards to JKE, what absolutely breaks it for me is having saber throw as a force power. For me it feels like taking the most effective way of using the saber and trying something different. JKE is something I'd like to contribute to in the future, as I think it has the most potential out of these kinds of mods. That being said elements/concepts from KotF would make a great addition to JKE. For example, it'd be nice to have a player model select screen that you can swap in the species screen for single player. Not to derail, but for JKE I'd love to commit my melee updates along with the mortar gun, fusion cutter and assault cannon (once completed, of course).

 

I do think KotF has potential, and that it's not quite as taboo design-wise as people feel. I think so much of that is charged by not properly crediting everyone, even if he didn't bother to hunt down permission. He's got credits on his website, but I don't remember them always being there, and they certainly aren't in any readme file. I will say the menus are stupidly busy sometimes (particularly the character menu) and could do with a bit more minimalist design.

[Artemis]

I'm late to the party, and what I wanted to say has more or less been said.

 

If you just try and mod KotF, it's still KotF, with all of the negative connotations attached, no matter what you've done to fix it.

 

Rather than throwing your energy into fixing something that will still be disliked, it'd be better to either start over or offer to help with some other similar project.

[eezstreet]

I have a better idea.

Fuck KotF right off, contribute to JKE.

 

You don't just "improve" KotF. You remake it from scratch properly.

Aside from the legal and ethical issues with KotF, it's such a horribly made mod. You are seriously better off starting from scratch.

This.

 

In regards to JKE, what absolutely breaks it for me is having saber throw as a force power. For me it feels like taking the most effective way of using the saber and trying something different. JKE is something I'd like to contribute to in the future, as I think it has the most potential out of these kinds of mods. That being said elements/concepts from KotF would make a great addition to JKE. For example, it'd be nice to have a player model select screen that you can swap in the species screen for single player. Not to derail, but for JKE I'd love to commit my melee updates along with the mortar gun, fusion cutter and assault cannon (once completed, of course).

 

I do think KotF has potential, and that it's not quite as taboo design-wise as people feel. I think so much of that is charged by not properly crediting everyone, even if he didn't bother to hunt down permission. He's got credits on his website, but I don't remember them always being there, and they certainly aren't in any readme file. I will say the menus are stupidly busy sometimes (particularly the character menu) and could do with a bit more minimalist design.

KotF has no potential. It already has a tarnished name and ultimately it's just a hodgepodge of other people's content. If you remove that content, you have nothing left.

[Teancum]

Correction -- should have said had potential. But the burned bridges will ultimately taint things forever. Too bad, too. Even though I don't like it the mod could have been accepted by the community at large if proper credit and permissions had been given.

[Jolly]

In regards to JKE, what absolutely breaks it for me is having saber throw as a force power. For me it feels like taking the most effective way of using the saber and trying something different. JKE is something I'd like to contribute to in the future, as I think it has the most potential out of these kinds of mods. That being said elements/concepts from KotF would make a great addition to JKE. For example, it'd be nice to have a player model select screen that you can swap in the species screen for single player. Not to derail, but for JKE I'd love to commit my melee updates along with the mortar gun, fusion cutter and assault cannon (once completed, of course).

 

I do think KotF has potential, and that it's not quite as taboo design-wise as people feel. I think so much of that is charged by not properly crediting everyone, even if he didn't bother to hunt down permission. He's got credits on his website, but I don't remember them always being there, and they certainly aren't in any readme file. I will say the menus are stupidly busy sometimes (particularly the character menu) and could do with a bit more minimalist design.

 

Just, this. lol

[Tompa9]

Yes I really like that NPC spawn system and character changer. I think it should be added to JKE in the future. You should contribute JKE, ask authors for permission. Im now working on unofficial skinpack and effects for Jke but oficially it could be the most epic mod ever. Add some new stances from MD2 and it will be legendary.

[eezstreet]

I don't get why people say that KotF's NPC spawner is good. Isn't it just a menu with lots of NPCs to spawn?

[Tompa9]

I don't get why people say that KotF's NPC spawner is good. Isn't it just a menu with lots of NPCs to spawn?

Yea it is but could be useful because there are lot of people who dont remember all npc codes in console

[eezstreet]

Yea it is but could be useful because there are lot of people who dont remember all npc codes in console

I think if you press TAB after "npc spawn " in OpenJK it gives you a list of NPCs.

[Daedra]

I think if you press TAB after "npc spawn " in OpenJK it gives you a list of NPCs.

 

I have the latest version of OpenJK and it doesn't do that for me. But I always keep a written list of npc codes from the ext_data.

[Sithani]

So basically you want to improve a "mod" that only has stolen content by adding more content made by other people lol

[Lancelot]

So basically you want to improve a "mod" that only has stolen content by adding more content made by other people lol

No. My initial idea was to remove that content entirely or replace it with content that has been approved.

 

But I think it's better to remove the stolen content entirely and only keep the menus and the things that are actually needed to make it work. This way, the unecessarily pumped up mod will have way less weight and will only contain the main functions.

And if there are still things that need to be added (such as new functions or legal content) or fixed, it could be done afterwards.