Revival of JKA's modding community

[Tempust85]

If we are wanting to attract more players, why all the chatter about having better mod tools? UniqueOne isn't the only one who mentioned this. Plus, this game isn't that hard to mod if you know what you're doing. Also, our problem is not enough players so why would we want to have a new map format to allow larger maps? Can't really compare JKA to Skyrim...

 

If we have decent mappers, we can create decent maps that feel large.

 

What we need is for everyone to agree on an MP mod that will bring new content, without being stupid and planning ALOT of things.

 

EDIT:

 

I've always liked the idea of vehicle racing in JKA, perhaps that could be a new game mode? You could attack other players to help you win.

[UniqueOne]

Can't really compare JKA to Skyrim...

I think that sums it up. Doesn't it? You can't compare Q3 to even a 5 year old engine. Hence all of this talk.

 

As for the "players" vs "mod tools", the two are completely interlinked. Both require some big change to get attention.

 

Getting players is short term if there is nothing to keep them here. Getting modders is the basis of a long term community.

 

*yoda voice* Tools leads to modders (and news). Modders (and news) leads to community.

[minilogoguy18]

Rend2 could attract players but a finished SP mod or good MP servers would probably do more. Servers for the most part have only catered to clans to be their hang out place, there needs to be servers that are willing to be open to suggestions as far as which maps and mods to run, like a couple of jkhub servers where people can come here and maybe voice an opinion on these things.

 

As far as modders, I get people contacting me through google+ here and there about the animation tutorial I put on youtube but for whatever reason I've yet to see these people make an account here despite them coming here to download the rig.

[Tempust85]

Right, so can we please discuss what game changes we want to do? My ideas:

 

- MP mod

- skyline menu

- new game modes (racing? Vehicle vs vehicle?)

- more modern looking art using a fully complete rend2

- a variety of new maps

- ep7 content

[Archangel35757]

I don't think there is any need for any new model formats... but I would like to see code changes to allow bolting md3 models on to Ghoul2 models. I would also like to see better environments-- not sure that requires a new map compiler... I would also like to see better vehicles/vehicle flight dynamics & space maps (I.e. space battles & dog-fighting).

 

I also like @@DT85's idea of bringing pod-racing in... I think there was already a mod like that.

[eezstreet]

Models:

There's nothing wrong with the MDX formats (MD3/GLM) in and of them-self. In fact I would say that using them is far better than a format like OBJ, FBX or others because they're not compact like MDX is. The only thing wrong with them is the lack of exporters...and the big one that's missing right now is Maya.

 

You can already bolt MD3 models on GLM models. (But maybe not through ICARUS?)

 

Maps:

BSP format is ideal for corridors and the type of mapping you see in JK2, Q3, Doom, etc. but it kinda falls apart once you have the mapping of JKA and mods with large expanses of outdoor area. It would be nice to use more than one format here, but q3map2 and (especially) Radiant would need to be reprogrammed anyway. Did I mention that Radiant is dated as hell?

 

Comparing JKA to Skyrim is frankly stupid, the games weren't designed the same way at all and each one has its own set of problems (let's talk for a sec about how Bethesda totally fucked up their scripting engine and had to have modders repair it...). Yes, it'd be nice to have good looking graphics, but saying "we should make it look like this" is not really helpful.

 

 

I'd like to see a type of Garry's Mod or something with large amounts of scripting, that would ensure lots of replayability to me. I had some crazy one-off ideas for mods that would be good as server scripts for fun.

[minilogoguy18]

Yeah, Maya REALLY BADLY needs an exporter, it's the most widely used 3d art package. It should be in the form of a dotXSI 3.x format because at the end of the day it's the most sure fire way to get a working models and animations into the game and the process isn't even 1/1000 as difficult as some people try to make it.

 

Space or vehicle based maps just aren't going to happen without either increasing the level size or scaling everything down large enough to emulate a large scale. The game is about saber combat and FPS, tring to make it into something it isn't is a waste of time. Just go play SWBF.

 

So many people complain about the MDX format but I have 0 problems with it, maybe because I'm the only one using software that has never had a problem exporting and compiling a dotXSI 3.x file. Too bad I didn't know what I know now 10 years ago, all that time wasted with 3DS Max.

[Tempust85]

Ground racing maps will work, just need to wind the track around and you won't run out of room.

 

You can already use Noesis to compile models from Maya. Sure an actual plugin would be better but at least there's a way right now thanks to Rich. Maya might be widely used for other things, but for JKA it isn't. I don't know any else besides two people who use it. Everyone else has just hopped on the Blender band wagon, if they don't already use softimage or 3ds Max.

 

Nothing wrong with 3ds Max and dotXSI exporting. Sure, Max 5 was the last version that could do animation BEFORE archangel fixed the later version's plugin. It's a completely viable 3d package for JKA modding, moreso than softimage if you count the MD3 exporters.

[Archangel35757]

@@DT85 -- you helped as well in getting that first Max6/8 dotXSI exporter working and proven out; and I'm grateful for your assistance... and you were an indispensable beta-tester for the later versions! We made a good team!

 

Folks can also use the Max8+ dotXSI Import script to import the original dotXSI 3.x files ( ...and even Star Trek: Elite Forces dotXSI 1.x models/animations-- not even Softimage can do that )

 

I plan to make a v1.9 for Max6-2016 that uses @@Scooper's snippet to respect smoothing groups.

[UniqueOne]

Models:

There's nothing wrong with the MDX formats (MD3/GLM) in and of them-self. In fact I would say that using them is far better than a format like OBJ, FBX or others because they're not compact like MDX is. The only thing wrong with them is the lack of exporters...and the big one that's missing right now is Maya.

Well I am happy to bow to DT's knowledge of modelling. If he feels glm is an easy enough format for a new wannabe modder to want to learn.

 

I put it second in my list because it is less important then the mapping issues. Let's face it, theres already plenty of glm animations to select from and exporters would probably be good enough. I'm just thinking about new people here.

 

 

Maps:

BSP format is ideal for corridors and the type of mapping you see in JK2, Q3, Doom, etc. but it kinda falls apart once you have the mapping of JKA and mods with large expanses of outdoor area. It would be nice to use more than one format here, but q3map2 and (especially) Radiant would need to be reprogrammed anyway. Did I mention that Radiant is dated as hell?

 

Yes it is,

The days of corridor engines is over. Herein lies probably the biggest reason we don't have a community.

 

There is really 2 choices here. Either rewrite radiant, or support a new map format. Rewriting radiant would be a much larger project then supporting an open source map format which already has a good editor. It would also not come with the other benefits. (Note: I am not saying remove support for BSP, just added a new format as well).

 

 

Comparing JKA to Skyrim is frankly stupid, the games weren't designed the same way at all and each one has its own set of problems (let's talk for a sec about how Bethesda totally fucked up their scripting engine and had to have modders repair it...). Yes, it'd be nice to have good looking graphics, but saying "we should make it look like this" is not really helpful.

I completely disagree with this.

 

If we want people to use this engine then it had damn well better offer at least the same advantages as the newer alternatives. Otherwise we may as well all give up right now. If the engine gave people a reason to use it then they would. At the moment all JKA has is a license that we are not taking advantage of.

 

Skyrim has its horrible issues, but it offers good tools and doesn't make you feel like your in 1990's running around in a fishtank. This is why it's community is still strong as ever (even to the point of stopping steam from allowing payed mods, passion) 5 years later. You can not get sick of infinite large open worlds. You can sure as hell get sick of small boxes.

 

Star Wars has never had a game that offered a true open world experience (BF2 is not going to offer this either - it will have the shiny, but not the long term playability or the "expansive star wars universe" feel), the games have always been rushed to the market for profit. Here we have a license and no time restrictions to do it right.

 

As for nice looking graphics. Rend2 can do that now if you make use of it's abilities in your mod (see screenshots below) or get people mapping for it (which we will get little or none of with radiant). It's missing things like dlight shadows, it's fps can be quite bad (mainly due to multi-stage shaders and a bad map format *cough*), and there's a few minor bugs, but whatever.

 

 

 

 Rend2 can be pretty... but it's not enough to get long term community over a newer engine. You realise that they all do this too???

 

 

I'd like to see a type of Garry's Mod or something with large amounts of scripting, that would ensure lots of replayability to me. I had some crazy one-off ideas for mods that would be good as server scripts for fun.

No disagreement here. But I think this is something for the community to do with an updated, robust, engine to work with, not necessarily by the OJK team themselves. There is also little point having advanced scripted AI on tiny maps.

 

 

I did not come to these conclusions either lightly, or quickly. I have been working on various Q3 games for like 16 years now (as I think you already know), I have watched every Q3 based game community die. Even those new shiny Q3-mods have a very limited shelf life because they don't give people the tools or the reason to choose them over a newer engine. We can screw around with a fish tank until all the water leaks out or we can expand the fish tank into something people want to be in.

[Archangel35757]

@@UniqueOne -- using an exporter is simple! And using Assimilate/Carcass or Noesis is not complicated either.

[UniqueOne]

@@UniqueOne -- using an exporter is simple! And using Assimilate/Carcass or Noesis is not complicated either.

 

Ok. If you guys believe the models are not an issue. I'm fine with that. I am no modeller, just want to see a growing community again. The map thing though I swear will be my dieing breath  .

[Merek]

Unfortunately, I'd have say that it's too late to revive the modding community. My closest friend just left the jka modding community yesterday, it's truly sad. For me, I am remaining loyal to Jedi Academy (and its modding communities) for the next few years at least, but eventually I'll be moving on as everyone else has.
 
I've tried continuing the development of the Stargate Event Horizon mod, but without actual players or interested players it's extremely difficult to find the motivation to do so. I was even making plans with the original developers to continue development but the idea was canned when they stopped answering my messages (i.e. they stopped getting online).
 
However, I'll support any idea(s) for keeping it alive for much longer and/or bringing more players & modders back to the game.

[UniqueOne]

Unfortunately, I'd have say that it's too late to revive the modding community. My closest friend just left the jka modding community yesterday, it's truly sad. For me, I am remaining loyal to Jedi Academy (and its modding communities) for the next few years at least, but eventually I'll be moving on as everyone else has.

 

I've tried continuing the development of the Stargate Event Horizon mod, but without actual players or interested players it's extremely difficult to find the motivation to do so. I was even making plans with the original developers to continue development but the idea was canned when they stopped answering my messages (i.e. they stopped getting online).

 

However, I'll support any idea(s) for keeping it alive for much longer and/or bringing more players & modders back to the game.

 

You need some "worlds" to stargate too hehehehe. The worlds from Stargate, again, are huge. To do huge maps without taking forever, and without having horrible FPS, a new map format is required (and stuff like generating large vegetated terrains quickly, with a better tool then radiant).

 

On a side note, we should chat, your project is probably very compatible with what I am working on at the moment (a MMORPG mod of OJK engine).

[z3filus]

No on can revive this game, please get over it alreadry. Take a close look at all the suggestions you all have listed, on how to improve the game.
Basically if you want to revive the community; create a new game with SP and MP options. Geez hmm...  oh wait, I know;    The Force Unleashed e.g.
Our clan keeps getting dozens of new adepts and from what I know, some are recruited while playing CoD or another game (you name it )

TDM games with the possibility to Team Voice Chat are IN  at the moment. So if you insist on trying to revive the game, then concentrate on TDM..

[eezstreet]

Well I am happy to bow to DT's knowledge of modelling. If he feels glm is an easy enough format for a new wannabe modder to want to learn.

I put it second in my list because it is less important then the mapping issues. Let's face it, theres already plenty of glm animations to select from and exporters would probably be good enough. I'm just thinking about new people here.

 

The days of corridor engines is over. Herein lies probably the biggest reason we don't have a community.

There is really 2 choices here. Either rewrite radiant, or support a new map format. Rewriting radiant would be a much larger project then supporting an open source map format which already has a good editor. It would also not come with the other benefits. (Note: I am not saying remove support for BSP, just added a new format as well).

 

I completely disagree with this.If we want people to use this engine then it had damn well better offer at least the same advantages as the newer alternatives. Otherwise we may as well all give up right now. If the engine gave people a reason to use it then they would. At the moment all JKA has is a license that we are not taking advantage of.

Skyrim has its horrible issues, but it offers good tools and doesn't make you feel like your in 1990's running around in a fishtank. This is why it's community is still strong as ever (even to the point of stopping steam from allowing payed mods, passion) 5 years later. You can not get sick of infinite large open worlds. You can sure as hell get sick of small boxes.

Star Wars has never had a game that offered a true open world experience (BF2 is not going to offer this either - it will have the shiny, but not the long term playability or the "expansive star wars universe" feel), the games have always been rushed to the market for profit. Here we have a license and no time restrictions to do it right.

As for nice looking graphics. Rend2 can do that now if you make use of it's abilities in your mod (see screenshots below) or get people mapping for it (which we will get little or none of with radiant). It's missing things like dlight shadows, it's fps can be quite bad (mainly due to multi-stage shaders and a bad map format *cough*), and there's a few minor bugs, but whatever.

 

 

 

 Rend2 can be pretty... but it's not enough to get long term community over a newer engine. You realise that they all do this too???

 

 

No disagreement here. But I think this is something for the community to do with an updated, robust, engine to work with, not necessarily by the OJK team themselves. There is also little point having advanced scripted AI on tiny maps.

I did not come to these conclusions either lightly, or quickly. I have been working on various Q3 games for like 16 years now (as I think you already know), I have watched every Q3 based game community die. Even those new shiny Q3-mods have a very limited shelf life because they don't give people the tools or the reason to choose them over a newer engine. We can screw around with a fish tank until all the water leaks out or we can expand the fish tank into something people want to be in.

I'm not going to mince words here because this is something that I honestly feel quite strongly about. Bear that in mind.

 

Now with that out of the way, I think basically everything that you've said here is complete and utter bullshit.

 

The problem has never been about the engine, it's always about the people generating content for it. Look no further than the mods being uploaded here. While yes, we do host a large quantity of mods, they are quite frequently frankensteined, often with a poor understanding of how the underlying architecture works. I applaud people for taking the time to learn the tools, but quite frankly they have room for improvement. This isn't a new problem, and older models are quite worse compared to this newer stuff. But we've got a ton of Star Wars models and stuff, and nothing frankly compelling.

 

Also, I don't buy the argument that corridor engine games are dead. There's certainly room for improvement and ground that hasn't been reached within this game. When was the last time you saw a side scroller mod or a top down shooter in this game? The only non- Star Wars mods never got off the ground because people weren't interested in them in favor of other junk. There's lots of stuff you can do with this game and make it work, it's just that people (myself included fwiw) are unwilling to take risks, or make the same old "It's JK4" mod that dozens of teams have done.

 

The only thing I agree with is that Radiant needs changed (because it's crap) and that maybe another format can be supported.

 

Skyrim isn't an "alternative" to JKA. Like I said before, they had two completely competing design philosophies that make it impossible to cater to both. Do you cater to high performance, twitch gameplay of old, or do you go for the slow paced, globe trotting adventure game? The two are mutually exclusive you'll find.

OJK isn't really an "engine" no more than Q3 is. The difference is the game that you're modding. For all intents and purposes, creating a game on the OJK "engine" is infinitely more feasible since Skyrim's "engine" is just a game that you're modding. Like I said, the comparison here is silly. If you want to make a mod for Skyrim, go make a mod för Skyrim. If you want to make a mod for JKA, use OPENJK as a base. This is not complicated. Rend2 isn't meant to put JKA above Skyrim, it's supposed to make mods be able to use better graphics.

 

And for what it's worth, the problems you're experiencing with FPS on rend2 isn't rend2's fault, it's the excess pixel shaders and shit you have caked on it to "prettify" it by using whatever you're using, and it's definitely NOT the mapping format, otherwise I would be getting issues on base with the map you've posted screenshots of.

 

What WILL draw in people is compelling experiences via mods, and rend2 will certainly help with that by making the game more accessible to people and by drawing in mod developers. I for one would be 9000% more interested in working on JKE if rend2 could work for JK2SP which is what my mod targets. Plus I intend on said mod being a solid base for SP modders by providing amenities like a solid facial rig, removing lots of hardcoded stuff, etc, which will feed back into the ecosystem.

 

There isn't one way or strategy to getting people to come back to the game. I'd suggest getting a jump start on the new movie craze. Remember that this game is the best lightsaber game in existence. What keeps people from staying is a huge learning curve in MP and lack of compelling content for SP. The MP could stand to have an element of addiction pumped into it too, and maybe a fast paced arcade game to play when friends are over at your house.

 

As far as advertising, personally I don't believe in it. I subscribe to the belief that if you make something good, people will generally follow.

[UniqueOne]

Everything (with the exception of radiant sucking and maybe saber combat - although I think skyrim does that nearly as well too with the various lightsaber mods) you just said is ... wow... what?

 

Twitch gameplay not compatible with large maps? What world are you living in? Do I really need to link nearly every latest shooter?

 

Side scrollers? 2D games. huh? JKA/Q3 are not 2D games.

 

FPS issues from pixel shaders in my mod? Actually I added culling to rend2 (so it no longer draws all that stuff you cant see) last night and its much better. Problem has nothing to do with pixel shaders - they just amplify the inherent issues of the renderer (and the shaders that like to draw in multiple stages - doubleing/trippling/quadrupling/etc render times).

 

OJK not an engine? wow. speechless...

 

Every engine is an alternative to this engine. Is there an infinite number of potential modders? Why would they select JKA over UE4 or Skyrim or whatever - you know, where everything doesn't take months to get done, look better, and isn't restricted to a linear fishtank?

 

Every engine that offers what modders want to mod in 2015 is the death of this engine/game. Period.

 

There sure is one way and strategy to get people back to the game. Making it the equal of what they left for. Making it the equal of the alternatives for new people... And making it as easy as possible for them all.

[eezstreet]

Name me one game with huge maps/open world with twitch gameplay. The two don't match up well. And nor should they. Open worlds are meant to have every nook and cranny explored, not blazed through.

 

I think you're high if you think Skyrim or any of its mods have as good of sabering as JKA does. Like mega high.

 

Sidescroller games aren't always 2D. Neither are shoot-em-ups, puzzles, fighting, MOBAs, ... and none of these have been really explored with JKA.

 

Oh please. If you think that fancy water shaders, depth of field, ambient occlusion or FXAA don't reduce framerate, then you've completely lost it. Do a benchmark test, latest rend2 vs yours with all the stuff on it.

Also you're talking out of your ass. rend2 has always supported culling of PVS clusters, I say support here because the code that actually handles the PVS stuff isn't in the renderer at all last I checked.

 

Pixel shaders objectively make the performance worse at the cost of graphics. They don't magnify any problem with the engine. Unless of course you're writing ARB shaders which is what dglow was written in before, then of course you're magnifying those shit issues, but you've got bigger problems I think if you're writing those outdated shader programs on something which supports GLSL. That's literally the only case where that makes any sense.

 

OJK isn't an engine. It's a stable base for the Jedi Academy game. I certainly wouldn't consider it a platform with any merit since there's no games made specifically for it, planned or otherwise.

 

I never said that engines aren't alternatives to each other. I said that games aren't alternatives to each other. Plus there's different design philosophies behind both anyway.

Honestly if you want to make an open world Star Wars game, go mod Skyrim. If you want tight combat with smaller settings, this is the game to mod. Trying to make a catch-all modding paradise is way beyond the scope of OJK, and quite frankly beyond the point of this thread. If you want that, go use Unreal. Doesn't mean it won't be a Jack of all Trades at what it does , however.

[UniqueOne]

Name me one game with huge maps/open world with twitch gameplay. The two don't match up well. And nor should they. Open worlds are meant to have every nook and cranny explored, not blazed through.

http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/

Even Skyrim itself could be considered a twitch game with melee. In fact it's manual blocking system is better then JKA's blocking.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're high if you think Skyrim or any of its mods have as good of sabering as JKA does. Like mega high.

... because its really hard to imagine how a mostly melee based game would work with lightsabers... lol. You may want to actually look.

 

 

Oh please. If you think that fancy water shaders, depth of field, ambient occlusion or FXAA don't reduce framerate, then you've completely lost it. Do a benchmark test, latest rend2 vs yours with all the stuff on it.

Also you're talking out of your ass. rend2 has always supported culling of PVS clusters, I say support here because the code that actually handles the PVS stuff isn't in the renderer at all last I checked.

FXAA replaces slower MSAA. DOF and AO are part of pretty much any new game and they run fine.

 

Try modifying all the maps surfaces to support rend2 cubemaps and shaders and compare yourself. Don't compare FPS with everything off with that of things actually being used (you know, the whole point of an enhanced renderer).

 

Add some npcs and look toward them them through a wall and see how well the culling works. Maps have partial culling, but entities are not culled at all.

 

Xycaleth is only one person and getting little help from anyone.

 

 

Pixel shaders objectively make the performance worse at the cost of graphics. They don't magnify any problem with the engine. Unless of course you're writing ARB shaders which is what dglow was written in before, then of course you're magnifying those shit issues, but you've got bigger problems I think if you're writing those outdated shader programs on something which supports GLSL. That's literally the only case where that makes any sense.

I guess performance analysis is wrong then.

 

I certainly wouldn't consider it a platform with any merit since there's no games made specifically for it, planned or otherwise.

... and that is why we are having this discussion.

 

 

I never said that engines aren't alternatives to each other. I said that games aren't alternatives to each other. Plus there's different design philosophies behind both anyway.

Honestly if you want to make an open world Star Wars game, go mod Skyrim. If you want tight combat with smaller settings, this is the game to mod. Trying to make a catch-all modding paradise is way beyond the scope of OJK, and quite frankly beyond the point of this thread. If you want that, go use Unreal. Doesn't mean it won't be a Jack of all Trades at what it does , however.

Maybe it is beyond the original scope. Maybe the original scope was misguided. After all, we are where we are. It is nothing that can not be fixed.

 

I don't expect that this map stuff will ever be done... and you know what? Skyrim will go on with a strong community for years to come. Not because it is a good engine, but because it has good tools and an open world that any noobie can add to.

 

This community will die completely because of short-sightedness of people who are not even representative of the "new" people needed to rebuild a community (and seem incapable of thinking like them, they want simple tools, they want shiny, they want to not get bored after 5 minutes playing and go play something else - nearly all the things people are talking about are for the people already still here, not for the new people we need).

 

This game community will also die because Xycaleth is only one person who nearly everyone seems to have abandoned for other things.

[Xycaleth]

Well this escalated quickly.

 

I'll make it clear guys that I asked this as a hypothetical situation rather than a call to arms. I don't intend to do anything with what's here, I'm just interested in hearing people's views on the matter.

 

Anyway, this will be a short post. I'm just about to head to work.

 

It's obvious I've missed some parts of the modding group. I've never really played much of the JA single player so perhaps that's why I hadn't considered it. For SP (and to an extent, MP) it's all about the tools. Lowering the barrier to entry is always crucial for any kind of software, but another thing that all the current modding tools misses is being able to make fast iterations. I don't know how you guys put up with having to:

1. make a change
2. compile something?
3. open up JKA
4. wait a minute or two for it to load up
5. look at your changes
6. and then see that it doesn't look right and repeat the process

Over the course of a project, that adds up to several hours of wasted time!

 

Now, I don't think you guys understand the importance of new players. Tools could be improved or whatever, but that doesn't bring back new players. It may bring back old players, but that's unlikely. People move on, they start families, what have you, and I find that when people have properly left a game, they don't generally come back. If they're still modding, they're probably modding a newer game like UE4. I've seen one or two modders come back for a few months only to see them disappear again.

 

What reason does average Joe have of modding JKA, whether it's SP or MP? If they have no interest in the game (it's 12 years old, why would they consider picking it up?), then why would they decide that good modding tools is reason enough to mod it?

[mrwonko]

There is really 2 choices here. Either rewrite radiant, or support a new map format. Rewriting radiant would be a much larger project then supporting an open source map format which already has a good editor. It would also not come with the other benefits. (Note: I am not saying remove support for BSP, just added a new format as well).

A well made game-specific editor will always be better than some general one. Would your hypothetical good editor with an open source map format know how JKA's file system works and read its textures accordingly? Would it support Jedi Academy's entities? I believe you're underestimating how much work it would be to support a new map format and customize its editor.

 

I'm curious, what existing good editors did you have in mind?

 

As far as advertising, personally I don't believe in it. I subscribe to the belief that if you make something good, people will generally follow.

Tell that to the tons of indie developers that make great games nobody buys. There are tons of articles out there on why and how you should start advertising early, and since we're essentially (re-)launching a game here they apply to us as well.

[UniqueOne]

A well made game-specific editor will always be better than some general one. Would your hypothetical good editor with an open source map format know how JKA's file system works and read its textures accordingly? Would it support Jedi Academy's entities? I believe you're underestimating how much work it would be to support a new map format and customize its editor.

 

I'm curious, what existing good editors did you have in mind?

This is something that in the end the OJK team would need to decide upon. I could point out a few possibilities quickly though.

 

Irrlicht format and the Ambiera editor:

License: zlib license (due to it containing zlib) - OJK already uses zlib so the license is compatible.

Web Site: http://www.ambiera.com/irredit/

Advantages: Looks to be a reasonable editor. A real mapper should really look at it though.

Disadvantages: ?

 

Blender Game Engine format:

License: GPL2 license like OJK

Web Site: https://www.blender.org/

Advantages: Well known editor. Many users.

Disadvantages: ?

[UniqueOne]

What reason does average Joe have of modding JKA, whether it's SP or MP? If they have no interest in the game (it's 12 years old, why would they consider picking it up?), then why would they decide that good modding tools is reason enough to mod it?

*yoda voice again* disney leads to star wars interest. star wars interest leads to jka/ojk and new easy to use tools for noobs. tools leads to facebook posts of pictures of maps drawn in a simple editor. pictures on facebook leads to more noobs.

[afi]

I agree completely with @Xycaleth. The ideas most of you guys are coming up with are good, but most likely not what will save the community in the long term.

I doubt people (modders or players) will pick up an 12 year old game just because of a new model format and improvements to the game, that people who are not really into it aren't even aware of.

 

I agree with some ideas:

- Modding in general could be easier and faster. Compared to the new engines, mapping in JA is kinda annoying and slowish.

- It's kinda hard to get into this game

- There are a shitton of mods but only a couple that are actually really good

- A big multiplayer mod would help us most

[mrwonko]

For your consideration, @@UniqueOne: Level Editing In UE4 Kinda Needs To Catch Up To Quake 1, Hypothesising Negative Effects of Ubiquitous Modular Mesh Based Level Design.

 

I'm not convinced that existing editors will do us any good, I still think a custom editor could be easier to use and more powerful.

 

I do agree that support for heightmap based terrain might be worth adding to JKA, brushes are not the right way of creating them. And having distance-based LODs and possibly occlusion volumes as an alternative/in addition to BSP would be cool. (I have CryEngine's Sandbox in mind writing this.) It borders on a total conversion though; outside of the roleplay community and possibly some vehicle based maps I don't see how current game modes could reasonably work on maps that large. There's only so much space you can fill with 32 players. You seem to be suggesting Jedi Knight: The MMORPG, or possibly Jedi Knight: The Open World SP RPG. A project of that size is practically impossible.

 

Or what exactly is it you want?

 

--edit--

- Modding in general could be easier and faster. Compared to the new engines, mapping in JA is kinda annoying and slowish.

Agreed.

- It's kinda hard to get into this game

You mean getting into competitive multiplayer?

- There are a shitton of mods but only a couple that are actually really good

Good point. A mod manager/browser should aid in finding good mods.

- A big multiplayer mod would help us most

Like what?