OpenJK General Topic

[afi]

Kinda what I was getting at, only thing protecting your game is needing one person to buy it to get the assets.

 

Yes, but someone who does something like this could also easily share every other game. I mean... if you pirate a complete closed-sourced game or just the assets of an open-sourced game... where is the difference? 

[CrimsonStrife]

Yes, but someone who does something like this could also easily share every other game. I mean... if you pirate a complete closed-sourced game or just the assets of an open-sourced game... where is the difference? 

I was assuming in this instance they would likely have used a distributor such as Steam to market the game, in this instance the game has piracy protection on it.  The source can't be distributed with this as it is something they only give to approved developers.  But the assets would be easy to get to, so just compile that source and use the assets, then poof, anti-piracy avoided.

[mrwonko]

[...] then poof, anti-piracy avoided.

Copy protection is always hacked sooner or later anyway and from then on only hurts the paying customers. So your point is "don't make your game open source, it becomes too easy to pirate"? Then how come gog.com still exists if their DRM free games are so easily copied?

[CrimsonStrife]

You are again referencing games or companies with well established followings or fanbases (a huge portion of the library at gog is made up of classics).  If you have an established customer base, then you stand a chance at profiting in spite of piracy.

The idea is doing so with a brand new IP.

[afi]

Will there be performance optimizations and/or visual improvements?

[mrwonko]

CrimsonStrife, on 09 Apr 2013 - 10:35, said:

You are again referencing games or companies with well established followings or fanbases (a huge portion of the library at gog is made up of classics). If you have an established customer base, then you stand a chance at profiting in spite of piracy.

The idea is doing so with a brand new IP.

What, like Super Meat Boy? I'm telling you, piracy : purchase rates have nothing to do with the size of your fanbase. Yes, selling a new IP is often harder than an established one, but that's not because people are more likely to pirate it.

MoonDog, on 09 Apr 2013 - 16:28, said:

Will the linux support mean that icarus scripts that change the timescale and npc's scripted to follow navgoals will actually work on the servers?

That didn't work in the past on Linux? Yeah, it should work once we're done.

afiNity°, on 09 Apr 2013 - 16:44, said:

Will there be performance optimizations and/or visual improvements?

That might happen in the future, yes. Personally, I'd like to investigate that further in a separate branch that abandons binary compatibility with old mods, but others have expressed interest in improving this in OpenJK.

[CrimsonStrife]

What, like Super Meat Boy? I'm telling you, piracy : purchase rates have nothing to do with the size of your fanbase. Yes, selling a new IP is often harder than an established one, but that's not because people are more likely to pirate it.

And now we are talking about going commercial with a new IP and an engine that isn't GPL....Super Meat Boy...which is not what I was referring to.  And they almost didn't get it released to begin with. (and if you consider the flash version that was on Newgrounds forever, then they already had fanbase of sorts.)

 

I am saying, creating a brand new game (new IP), and release it on this GPL engine....or any GPL engine, with intent to sell it (commercial-use).  It's not that you COULDN'T sell it, but between the actual costs of getting a game onto the market (yea you could just toss it up on a free site, but that would only hurt sales), so marketing, distribution, etc...you are not going to be able to pull a profit.

 

And if you try to claim you aren't in it for profit, then doing it commercially is pointless.

[mrwonko]

And now we are talking about going commercial with a new IP and an engine that isn't GPL....Super Meat Boy...which is not what I was referring to.

Okay, let me sum this up. You're saying a game has a hard time being profitable if you use an open source engine. I asked why, you started talking about piracy. I made the point that in that case DRM free games wouldn't make a profit either. You said yeah, they don't, unless you have an established following. I listed Super Meat Boy as an example of a DRM free game without a huge following (surely not everybody who played it played Meat Boy on Newgrounds?) that sold a lot. Now you're telling me you were never talking about DRM free games in the first place?

I am saying, creating a brand new game (new IP), and release it on this GPL engine....or any GPL engine, with intent to sell it (commercial-use).  It's not that you COULDN'T sell it, but between the actual costs of getting a game onto the market (yea you could just toss it up on a free site, but that would only hurt sales), so marketing, distribution, etc...you are not going to be able to pull a profit.

So tell me, how is creating a new IP and selling it and being profitable using a GPL engine as Open Source any different from creating a new IP and selling it and being profitable using a closed source self-made engine without copy protection, as countless indies have done? Hell, I even have an example for you: Thirty Flights of Loving uses idTech 2 licensed under GPL and is subsequently open source, that still sells, right?

 

So far, the only point you've made about why Open Source games specifically can't sell is ease of piracy, which applies just as much for DRM free games like Super Meat Boy or anything on gog.com. Your other arguments are just about selling games in general. Yes, selling a game is hard, but no harder if you use an open source engine, that's all I'm saying.

[eezstreet]

Note: ICARUS and Ghoul 2 are considered proprietary formats anyway, so it's a moot point.

You'd be selling the assets, not the game, which isn't in and of itself wrong

[GoodOl'Ben]

Would a OpenJK MP client be able to connect to a JKA MP server?

[Raz0r]

Yes. Network protocol has not been changed.

[afi]

Wouldn't that become a problem if standalones would use Jedi Academy servers/masterservers?

[Setlec]

what do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the SP might use the network protocol for, idk, Co-OP games? if yes it shouldn't be a problem thought these hosted Co-OP should indicate their Co-OP mode just like others servers do for FFA, TDM and etc.

[Raz0r]

Wouldn't that become a problem if standalones would use Jedi Academy servers/masterservers?

Standalones that alter the network protocol should bump the protocol version up, and use a different gamename so there would be visible errors when attempting to connect to a server with a different protocol.

[eezstreet]

what do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the SP might use the network protocol for, idk, Co-OP games? if yes it shouldn't be a problem thought these hosted Co-OP should indicate their Co-OP mode just like others servers do for FFA, TDM and etc.

Using the SP binaries to network stuff isn't going to be very physically possible at all due to the straight up HAX that they did to SP stuff

 

JKG uses a bumped up version number and is therefore impossible to find on normal server browsers (including All Seeing Eye, which is integrated into OpenJK, btw). I recommend following their example. It's a simple cvar that needs changed ("protocol")

[minilogoguy18]

what do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the SP might use the network protocol for, idk, Co-OP games? if yes it shouldn't be a problem thought these hosted Co-OP should indicate their Co-OP mode just like others servers do for FFA, TDM and etc.

 

Now THATS something I would like to see, a co-op ladder mod, one that is challenging like Survival Mod 2 was.

[eezstreet]

Again, read my post, isn't going to happen without major restructuring of how SP works (I don't even know if the netcode still allows for remote stuff anymore. It DOES use packets/show signs of a networking system being there though...but yea, you'd have to get rid of all the badness in jagamex86.dll before that would become a thing.

[eezstreet]

Just a quick update:

• Demos no longer require g_synchronousClients and can play back in AVI format (ensiform)
• Game now compiles and runs on OSX and Linux (albeit without audio) (redsaurus, exidl, among others)
• "damage", "altDamage", "splashDamage", "splashRadius", "altSplashDamage" and "altSplashRadius" added to weapons.dat parsing (eezstreet)
• Massive memory issues fixed in SP (Scooper)
• More...

[therfiles]

 

• "damage", "altDamage", "splashDamage", "splashRadius", "altSplashDamage" and "altSplashRadius" added to weapons.dat parsing (eezstreet)

 

Thank you, thank you,thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[redsaurus]

 

• Game now compiles and runs on OSX and Linux (albeit without audio) (redsaurus, exidl, among others)

That's all exidl, I've only contributed ~ 4 lines towards it  

[Dusty]

Thank you, thank you,thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

I agree with therfiles.

 

So does OpenJK let you play without the CD for JA or JO? Is that what it means by "Removed CD Check"? Does that mean we can't make mods that edit the assets when playing on OpenJK? Or OpenJK itself isn't allowed to hand out mods with it's package?

[eezstreet]

OpenJK is compatible with all mods (Jedi Knight Galaxies is the only exception I think), and it does not require a CD in order to run. It does not however hand out mods, like you said. 

[Dusty]

We couldn't get projectile speed in there too could we? Naah.... 

[Raz0r]

That's not a fix.

[eezstreet]

I suppose I could put projectile speed in weapons.dat.