Evolution of Combat IV - Main Topic

[afi]

Can't believe I didn't see this thread until now, oh boy

[TheWhitePhoenix]

Ugh, this is such a GOD DAMN MESS!!!!

[afi]

I am done with this discussion[...]

Also why do people even like this stupid post. What does having your house being full of water to do with not crediting people? His house is flooded so he doesn't have time to credit people but he still got time to update his mod and post news on moddb. Where is the logic there? And eezstreet is supposed to do a mod with serenity cause of what? Cause you don't like MBII? Seriously?

The whole post lacks any kind of logical arguments. I'm not hating on serenity but people really need to start taking responsibility for their actions and justifying them doesn't help at all. Ignorance is no excuse. If these "mistakes" get corrected everything is fine but until then the facts speak for themselves

[Ramikad]

Also why do people even like this stupid post. What does having your house being full of water to do with not crediting people? His house is flooded so he doesn't have time to credit people but he still got time to update his mod and post news on moddb. Where is the logic there? And eezstreet is supposed to do a mod with serenity cause of what? Cause you don't like MBII? Seriously?

The whole post lacks any kind of logical arguments. I'm not hating on serenity but people really need to start taking responsibility for their actions and justifying them doesn't help at all. Ignorance is no excuse. If these "mistakes" get corrected everything is fine but until then the facts speak for themselves

 

That's a good point about the credits. And... "mistakes"? Come on, he's been blatantly ignoring all the problems that were pointed out to him with the mod, and even tried to play the victim of all "unjustified hate". Let's face it, those can't be "mistakes".

[Darth Sion]

Also why do people even like this stupid post. What does having your house being full of water to do with not crediting people? His house is flooded so he doesn't have time to credit people but he still got time to update his mod and post news on moddb. Where is the logic there? And eezstreet is supposed to do a mod with serenity cause of what? Cause you don't like MBII? Seriously?

The whole post lacks any kind of logical arguments. I'm not hating on serenity but people really need to start taking responsibility for their actions and justifying them doesn't help at all. Ignorance is no excuse. If these "mistakes" get corrected everything is fine but until then the facts speak for themselves

Here, here!

 

.. Not to mention a basic understanding of the English language.

[Darth Sion]

That's a good point about the credits. And... "mistakes"? Come on, he's been blatantly ignoring all the problems that were pointed out to him with the mod, and even tried to play the victim of all "unjustified hate". Let's face it, those can't be "mistakes".

You know what.. It actually makes me wonder why he's decided to switch over to moddb.com, to post post mod updates, instead of on here.. Maybe because MattFiler has told him about the "drama" throughout this post.. So instead of coming on here, "clearing the air" and resolving the lingering issues, he prefers to steer clear of it, thinking that he avoids the problem altogether.

 

I'm not taking any sides here, but ultimately (and realistically) he is stealing other people's work (whether that be models or otherwise) and isn't providing credits to the original authors. I don't know much about the whole KoTF situation, but I do smell a rotten root, here.

[MrHeisenberg]

Can't believe I didn't see this thread until now, oh boy

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Hahaha

[Ramikad]

Thought I might let you know that the ModDB page of EoC IV is back up.

[eezstreet]

The mod is back on Moddb.

 

I am done with this discussion. You all fools throwing hate. The fact is that serenity does NOT HAVE TIME to credit every single person. He doesn't want to hide the things, but he is acomplishing a lot of work alone, as long as he is the only developer for the mod.

About EoC III, had a Documents folder with documents of OJP. Damn it, is not made ON PURPOSE. Stop acting so childish, some of you might have time to give credits, but Serenity doesn't have time TO ANYTHING. I haven't seen him in weeks. He has a life behind the pc, and you can't force him to give credits to everyone, when probably half of them have been lost cause he is handling a lot of stuff.

He does not intentionally hide it, he isn't aswell such a active member of the communitty in what talking in forums is, and probably is not so much conscious of how the credit thing goes. HE DOES NOT THINK HE IS DOING SOMETHING BAD.

In adittion, he is having his house flooded, he has more problems rather than giving credit to people who made work that is free to use.

I think a lot of people has too much of an ego, and want to be credited for everything. Maybe he is not as much as clear as he should be, but he doesn't even think about it.

As someone said in this thread before, some mods have done much damage to the community by stealing content and claiming as own, and that has make some serious wounds to the community, and now you all judge each mod and developer who doesn't credit everything as a bad guy and throw rocks on him. Evolution of Combat has it's own small community, and we do know that he "steals" things from other. Not exactly stealing, cause he doesn't claim ownity. As I told before, we everyone know it's not it's job, and we don't care that much who is it. This is the net, the files are free.

On the other hand, I must recognize that even I thought is not a priority and it should not be, is always a sign of good education to thanks everyone that has helped you to help the mode or that you have taken work from. And he should state which is the source of his sabersystem, which has, without doubt, a lot of effort and time dedicated on it, is not just that he renamed OJP or OpenJK or whatever. I've seen different features of the game grow with pass of time and I know for good that he has some work behind it, but HE MUST GIVE SOME CREDIT.

This said, I am with everyone claiming a response from Serenity, and when he gives, I think all this mess will be cleaned up. I hope you all to be comprehensive with it's situation and it's working phylosophy, cause that's what life is about. Comprehension and good intentions. No one here wanted to cause any harm, so let's chill and be all friends.

Lastly, I wanted to make a petition here. I want Serenity and Eezstreet to solve their difference and try to make a huge mod that takes away MBII. As a player, I've been a mediocre mode as MB II (in what saber collision reffers) growing a lot more than it deserves. Evolution of Combat is a good mod. Unfinished, unpolished, has many flaws. But is a good mod. And JKG is ambitious. If you stop throwing shit each other, maybe you can do something big that reunites all the insatisfied MBII players (which are many) and get yourself a community and a name. Moreover, if you work together on a common project, no one will be stealing shit out of anyone.

On the other hand, you can all keep acting childish and force players to divide, and MBII, a game which has even worst collision than base JA, will keep on being the most renowned mod of JA without deserving it.

It is your fucking choice, but have in mind that a lot of unsatisfied players have the eyes on you.

To be fair, all Serenity (or MattFiler) had to do was respond to the accusations that they have content ripped from other mods. Whatever they told to Moddb admins apparently worked, but they have literally not answered to my post or to my private messages to them regarding the situation, only saying that they will not post here because they're afraid of haters. Saying nothing is making themselves look more and more guilty. If they had simply stated that they were going to remove the offending content, all is forgiven. It is not me making a big deal out of this, it is them.

 

The reasoning that he had his house flooded and therefore can't acquire permission is nonsense. It's plainly apparent that MattFiler has been posting updates, and yet neither I nor other JKG devs have been asked permission by him for the content being used. Or maybe he could've done what any sane human being in this situation would've done and asked permission first. If you're going to include content with a huge release of your mod, it really doesn't hurt to ask permission from the original authors of that content before even including it in your project. The JKHub File Submission Rules have a good guideline that I'd recommend for other developers: if you can't obtain establish contact with the author within 30 days, it's safe, unless they specifically ask you to remove the content. And to be fair, Serenity did have a whole folder full of credits and attempts where he did get permission, but there's tons of instances where he didn't.

 

So let's talk about ego for a moment since you brought that up. I'm vaguely reminded of a comment that Serenity posted on the Jedi Knight Galaxies Moddb page where he bragged that he had cracked JKG's PK3 protection and was going to give all the assets included therein away to the public. Apparently using WinRAR makes you a master hacker, but okay. We later decided that PK3 protection was not a good idea and we wanted to open-source the mod so that other people would learn from it. Bear in mind here that Serenity has refused in the past to make his project open-sourced, which is legally required under the GNU GPL since his project is based on the engine source, and I can actually physically enforce it since I've confirmed that it's based on OpenJK. I'm not going to, because that would be childish and petty and I have no monetary stake in either OpenJK, JKG or Jedi Academy in general, aside from the $20 I think I've spent in purchasing the game on CD (and maybe another dollar or two for the Steam distribution).

 

Bearing this, and the fact that he's made several public ad hominem attacks against me so hateful that they've had to be filtered by other admins of this site, and ask yourself who's really the more ego-driven one here. I've merely laid out facts. Serenity stole the work of not only myself and other OpenJK devs, but the work of my friends, some of which are close enough that I could call them family. I have a right to be pissed off about this, I think.

 

No, I don't think I will work on a mod with Serenity, even if the goal of competition between ourselves and MB2 is tasty. I have way too many projects on my plate anyway. Let's face it though- if it were between me and him, who do you think would be doing most of the work?

inb4 "sick burn"

 

Edit: ninja'd by Ramikad

[ensiform]

My take is this, all credits should be given and at the very least should be making attempts to secure permission before including it.  And in the readme a simple "If I forgot someone and you see your work, please let me know because I didn't intend to and may have forgotten"  is the most courteous option for people making this type of mod.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

It seems like people are reporting the bugs for this mod, such as the crashing on startup bug, left and right on ModDB....Guess Karma is not just a loud b**ch, but also a quiet one....

[ensiform]

I'm also going to suspect its a very old version of OpenJK 

[Ramikad]

I'm also going to suspect its a very old version of OpenJK 

 

Eezstreet mentioned it might be an older version of OpenJK dating back to summer 2013, or a bit earlier.

[Darth Sion]

Watching this video from "Evolution of Combat III" and noticed your Kylo Ren model, @.. (Not to mention the voice clips for the model, too). Did they have your permission to use it?

[Daedra]

Just watching this video from "Evolution of Combat III" and noticed your Kylo Ren model, @.. (Not to mention the voice clips for the model, too). Did they have your permission to use it?

 

 

It's fine, I did leave a comment there too telling him I updated the soundpack.. but being famous makes you deaf and blind to everyone else, so I don't think he saw it.

[Futuza]

 

...

 

WTF?  So we offer to help you sort out the problems with crediting and helping make things better and this is the kind of non-logical raging nonsense response we get?  Really?  How childish.  And no, that is not how copyright laws work.  "This is the net, files are free".  So you think if something on the web it is free for the taking?  No wonder, y'all are having crediting issues.  Just so we're clear, we want you to credit people so you stay in the clear and the mod is able to succeed, not because we hate you and want you to fail.  I don't know how, or where you got that idea from.  Also I still want to hear from Serenity about this whole thing.

 

My take is this, all credits should be given and at the very least should be making attempts to secure permission before including it.  And in the readme a simple "If I forgot someone and you see your work, please let me know because I didn't intend to and may have forgotten"  is the most courteous option for people making this type of mod.

This is basically all we want you to do.  Like seriously that's all we were trying to get you to do.  If you have time to post updates, you have time to do this.

[ensiform]

Of course I would only like to see that extra line about if I forgot... if you make an effort to actually credit enough in the first place.

[Sentra]

This topic and Serenity's thoughts right now:

 

[Langerd]

Well... This is seriously starting to be a big problem...

Using the others work, creating the model packs - which models are from the other game, sometimes even making skins or small changes to the someones work.

To be honest i made a Vader Statue hall .. with Vader's figure. I couldnt contact Toshi (the author of the model) for the permission. I was kinda.. i felt stupid. But i gave the credit in the description and thanks for his work. - AND it was approved.. still dont know what to think about it O~O i feel quilty still

It also depends in my opinion - http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/infrigiment-report
Is this person is creator of models that been used ? Or just random guy that just.. saw that they didnt use some of them without permission.

Even if it is just random guy.. He done a good thing. Hard to say for me but... on this community there are also some files in the downloads, on the forums or links in the post with - files without permission or illegal ported models (ported models are for anopther discussion i know but ... keep on mind that You modification can be report BY random guy who just thought - That is illegal i dont like that... and he has rights for that)

[in other words i also mentioned some Jkhub members lately to remove stupid forum topic with ported models from many many MANY games... And also find some files that use models from other games - World of Warcraft for example]
 

In other words... Trying contact to the authors is the main key here. It just respect to the other persons work. Telling us that there were no time or some life problems - doesnt solve any problem about modification and well.. legal stuff. At all.

This is very heavy topic here... We shouldnt blame anyone that they are thieves or something, we should just tell them that is not right and keep our eyes open for these situations.

This is my opinion for this problem... I dont feel hate to anyone [only for one member ... because he would create big problems to our community]


 

[Clan FJA]

To be honest i made a Vader Statue hall .. with Vader's figure. I couldnt contact Toshi (the author of the model) for the permission. I was kinda.. i felt stupid. But i gave the credit in the description and thanks for his work.

 

 

this is the whole difference between you (and Blackwyrm^Heart) and Serenity.

You give credits in the description and in the readme and you thank other authors. People who download your mods are clearly informed that you use some little part of other mods that you name. Blackwyrm Heart do the same with FM3 : even he could not reach each author, he gives credits to authors and clearly write in his readme what he has done and what is from other stuff.

We appreciate guys like you.

 

 

Serenity is... different. He tries to hide the fact that a large part of his mod comes from other author. There are no proper credtis. Oh, you can say he put a lot of readme, but, according to Eezstreet in his post, they are hidden in a pk3 (Evolution_of_CombatIV_9.pk3). People who are not modders (= who doesn't know how to open a pk3) will never see them and will think Serenity created everything. And when we ask him to give proper credits, he doesnot even answer !

[DarthDementous]

what's with all this negative bias towards mb2 (the mod, I can certainly understand the community having been apart of it for so long lol) lately?

 

I can understand having some healthy competition but to dismiss it @@Hels as mediocre puzzles me. its pretty fully-featured with depth in classes, saber combat, maps, objective-based gameplay and gun-play...and you complain about hit detection? good luck fixing that when it's an issue tied directly to the engine. there's a reason that MB2 has survived from 2003-2016 and you're going to need a pretty impressive development team or a point of serious innovation if you want to take on 2016 MB2 in its extensive and refined form.

[Ramikad]

I wouldn't want to add fuel to the fire, but:

 

http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/infrigiment-report

 

 

Oh hey,

Didn't notice your username. I've been talking to a site admin and we've agreed to take the download for EoCIV down because I can't 100% confirm myself if there are stolen assets and although Serenity is insisting that there aren't any, he hasn't given me any proof.

Thanks for alerting me to the issue, sorry to have caused any problems.

-Matt

 

It really doesn't sound like a "mistake".

[Onysfx]

Was Jar Jar Binks stolen content as well? Or was his model credited?

[Clan FJA]

I wouldn't want to add fuel to the fire, but:

 

http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/infrigiment-report

 

 

It really doesn't sound like a "mistake".

 

No, it is not a mistake. If you read the whole topic (on jkhub), it's about several month that Matt knows there are problems with the content of EoCIV, not even to say with the content of Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy.

[ensiform]

Repurposing other people's packs with their readme in tact... The readme should be there yes but did he take the time to read them?  I bet most say no taking without permission or at least some do.

 

Model packs aside, the issue with the whole project still exists. Serenity Jedi Engine or w/e and I assume the EOC which uses it are now known to be in direct violation of the GNU GPL v2 licensing.  While you can claim lost source, died hard drive etc, that is really not of my concern because it is only out of laziness that you continue to release a project after which the source is lost and it is also only out of laziness that one neglects to actually use github or other source control hosting.  Sure maybe not knowing how but that is your own fault for not seeking help to set that up if you full well intended to make a released product which in this case they did.