Evolution of Combat IV - Main Topic

[eezstreet]

No proof? That's laughable. If he wants specific proof, I can get screenshots of where he ripped things directly out of JKG's PK3s and didn't even rename the files, nor even put them in the game. They're just floating in the EoC PK3s, adding unnecessary bloat. Right now I physically can't because I'm waiting on an adapter before my desktop PC can go online.

 

@JAWS: yes. The background for their ESC menu is ripped from JKG.

[eezstreet]

So now that I've downloaded it, I'm going to begin my analysis by stating that this mod was very confusing for me to install. It's only very friendly if you're using a disc version of the game. If you're using a Steam version, the installer appends an extra 'Gamedata'. The launcher for it doesn't work correctly, it just states that something has gone wrong.

 

Code

Anyway, from what I can tell codewise, it appears to run off a very old, heavily modified version of OpenJK from about 2013. The modular renderer is not present. It does a very good job of masking this fact to the user, but there's some very telltale signs in the signature of the executable, as well as some very obvious features pulled from it. Here's a good list of everything that I've found to support this evidence:

• The console can be scrolled through with the use of the scrollwheel.
• SHIFT + PAGE UP can be used to scroll through the console faster [Link to OpenJK commit]
• The Evolution_x86.dll can be moved into the base folder. The game still works properly and loads the file.
• The homepath has been altered, it's in a similar location (My Documents/serenityjediengine vs My Documents/My Games/OpenJK)

The console is also apparently broken, so I've had to mine these out of the executable:

• com_jk2 is present, it's named "com_outcast" in SJE. This cvar existed in early versions of OpenJK but was removed later on.
• fontlist command is present, it's not in base but is in OpenJK.
• sv_fps is defaulted to 40. In early versions of OpenJK SP, sv_fps was defaulted to 40. However in Aug 23 2013 it was switched back to the base SP default of 20
• r_mapOverBrightBits is present, it isn't in base SP but is in OpenJK SP. This was added on Jul 22 2013

Based on the evidence listed above, it's very clear to me that this is a modified version of OpenJK, originally from sometime between Aug 23 2013 and Jul 22 2013. However, some features from that time frame are not present, such as the modular renderer system. I'm not exactly sure why he opted to do this, but my guess is that he wanted to hide the fact that he was using OpenJK, or otherwise claim that the above is somehow part of "Serenity Jedi Engine." This is patently false; there are far too many coincidences for me to conclude that he didn't use OpenJK. Therefore, he's required by terms of the GNU GPL to release all of his singleplayer source code. Even if he wasn't using OpenJK, the singleplayer source code was never not licensed under the GPL. All of it must be available, no exceptions.

 

Assets

I'm going to go PK3 by PK3 and point out stuff which is very obviously taken from other mods:

• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Has QVMs in /qvm/ which are identical in size to the ones in JK2 1.04. These aren't used anyway
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Has a /gfx/jkg/ folder full of ripped content from JKG.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: /gfx/Lightsabers/, /gfx/BurnMarks/, /gfx/Electricity is entirely ripped from JKG.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Numerous levelshots from different maps, not even going to try and list all of them
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_2.pk3: Has the JK2 and Jedi Academy BSPs in it.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_2.pk3: Has *tons* of Sith J Cull's BSPs in it.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_3.pk3: Just when you thought this couldn't get worse, this mod literally rips off of KOTF... there's a /music/kotf.mp3 in here which is the kotf menu music.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_3.pk3: Sounds from JKG, and music from Sith J Cull's and MaceCrusherMadunusus' maps.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_4.pk3: Textures from Sith J Cull's maps.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Has all of the JKG weapon models included in it. Also includes the JKG workbench.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Includes the JA and JK2 map_objects.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Includes map objects specific to the "Nina" JK2 level series.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_6.pk3: Tons of taken player models, way too many to list. Also includes some of the base models for good measure.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: See above.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: Also includes the various _humanoid animation sets from the base game.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: Includes the "throwable objects" mod. (readme is provided in _9.pk3 though, so maybe it's ok)
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_8.pk3: More taken and base models. There's over 500MB just in player models.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_9.pk3: Has lots of readmes, but it's lacking any kind of readme file for JKG. There's far too few I feel like anyway for the sheer volume of the files which are included. There's readmes for 7 different player models, as well as all of Toshi's models. There appears to be no credit given to Sith J Cull or MaceCrusherMadunusus.

It looks like EoC includes the base assets, which is a huge no-no.

 

Conclusion

• It definitely uses OpenJK
• It definitely includes the base assets
• It definitely includes stuff from JKG
• It definitely includes Sith J Cull's maps without permission

If Serenity wants to come on here, he now can. There's all of my evidence laid out. He's welcome to dispute it, but the files are still sitting on my hard drive. I can take pictures proving all of this stuff. These are objective facts, nothing here is exaggerated.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

So now that I've downloaded it, I'm going to begin my analysis by stating that this mod was very confusing for me to install. It's only very friendly if you're using a disc version of the game. If you're using a Steam version, the installer appends an extra 'Gamedata'. The launcher for it doesn't work correctly, it just states that something has gone wrong.

 

Code

Anyway, from what I can tell codewise, it appears to run off a very old, heavily modified version of OpenJK from about 2013. The modular renderer is not present. It does a very good job of masking this fact to the user, but there's some very telltale signs in the signature of the executable, as well as some very obvious features pulled from it. Here's a good list of everything that I've found to support this evidence:

• The console can be scrolled through with the use of the scrollwheel.
• SHIFT + PAGE UP can be used to scroll through the console faster [Link to OpenJK commit]
• The Evolution_x86.dll can be moved into the base folder. The game still works properly and loads the file.
• The homepath has been altered, it's in a similar location (My Documents/serenityjediengine vs My Documents/My Games/OpenJK)

The console is also apparently broken, so I've had to mine these out of the executable:

• com_jk2 is present, it's named "com_outcast" in SJE. This cvar existed in early versions of OpenJK but was removed later on.
• fontlist command is present, it's not in base but is in OpenJK.
• sv_fps is defaulted to 40. In early versions of OpenJK SP, sv_fps was defaulted to 40. However in Aug 23 2013 it was switched back to the base SP default of 20
• r_mapOverBrightBits is present, it isn't in base SP but is in OpenJK SP. This was added on Jul 22 2013

Based on the evidence listed above, it's very clear to me that this is a modified version of OpenJK, originally from sometime between Aug 23 2013 and Jul 22 2013. However, some features from that time frame are not present, such as the modular renderer system. I'm not exactly sure why he opted to do this, but my guess is that he wanted to hide the fact that he was using OpenJK, or otherwise claim that the above is somehow part of "Serenity Jedi Engine." This is patently false; there are far too many coincidences for me to conclude that he didn't use OpenJK. Therefore, he's required by terms of the GNU GPL to release all of his singleplayer source code. Even if he wasn't using OpenJK, the singleplayer source code was never not licensed under the GPL. All of it must be available, no exceptions.

 

Assets

I'm going to go PK3 by PK3 and point out stuff which is very obviously taken from other mods:

• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Has QVMs in /qvm/ which are identical in size to the ones in JK2 1.04. These aren't used anyway
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Has a /gfx/jkg/ folder full of ripped content from JKG.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: /gfx/Lightsabers/, /gfx/BurnMarks/, /gfx/Electricity is entirely ripped from JKG.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_1.pk3: Numerous levelshots from different maps, not even going to try and list all of them
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_2.pk3: Has the JK2 and Jedi Academy BSPs in it.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_2.pk3: Has *tons* of Sith J Cull's BSPs in it.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_3.pk3: Just when you thought this couldn't get worse, this mod literally rips off of KOTF... there's a /music/kotf.mp3 in here which is the kotf menu music.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_3.pk3: Sounds from JKG, and music from Sith J Cull's and MaceCrusherMadunusus' maps.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_4.pk3: Textures from Sith J Cull's maps.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Has all of the JKG weapon models included in it. Also includes the JKG workbench.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Includes the JA and JK2 map_objects.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_5.pk3: Includes map objects specific to the "Nina" JK2 level series.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_6.pk3: Tons of taken player models, way too many to list. Also includes some of the base models for good measure.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: See above.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: Also includes the various _humanoid animation sets from the base game.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_7.pk3: Includes the "throwable objects" mod. (readme is provided in _9.pk3 though, so maybe it's ok)
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_8.pk3: More taken and base models. There's over 500MB just in player models.
• Evolution_of_CombatIV_9.pk3: Has lots of readmes, but it's lacking any kind of readme file for JKG. There's far too few I feel like anyway for the sheer volume of the files which are included. There's readmes for 7 different player models, as well as all of Toshi's models. There appears to be no credit given to Sith J Cull or MaceCrusherMadunusus.

It looks like EoC includes the base assets, which is a huge no-no.

 

Conclusion

• It definitely uses OpenJK
• It definitely includes the base assets
• It definitely includes stuff from JKG
• It definitely includes Sith J Cull's maps without permission

If Serenity wants to come on here, he now can. There's all of my evidence laid out. He's welcome to dispute it, but the files are still sitting on my hard drive. I can take pictures proving all of this stuff. These are objective facts, nothing here is exaggerated.

O_O Oh boy....Just a correction, Eez. Nina is JKA last time I checked. But...oh boy....

[Ramikad]

~snip~

 

[Clan FJA]

I'm not exactly sure why he opted to do this, but my guess is that he wanted to hide the fact that he was using OpenJK, or otherwise claim that the above is somehow part of "Serenity Jedi Engine."

I already suspected something like that. I tested EoC III a long time ago and the sabersystem was just taken from OJP (with some tweaks and modifications).

He put the name of "Serenity Saber System" on it, while it was just based on the earlier versions of OJP. I don't know if he put a readme for OJP. And here you bring the fact that he did the same thing with OpenJK.

 

 

I have no problems with the fact he uses stuff from other mods. After all, when you release a mod, you know that other people will download it and eventually modify/improve it (for personal use).

However, in this case, his mod is released in public and and he makes a lot of advertising claiming it is HIS sabersystem with HIS engine and HIS work/name, trying to hidding the fact that a large part of the stuff is not directly from him.

 

Let's talk about the readmes : yes, he put some readmes, but here too, he tried to hide them. I just want to point that readmes must not be just put in a pk3. Readme must be in a folder, available to all people who download the mod, even they don't know how to open a pk3, not just available to the modder who will open the pk3s.

 

 

He has said he will not comment on this thread because of how everyone simply seems to be throwing hate at the mod without even having any real proof as of yet that there is stolen content being used here. That's also why I've held off commenting,

It is not hate. We do not hate this mod, it brings back several people to JKA and keep the community alive. It made some advertising for mods based on the OJP sabersystem.

But you must understand that the behaviour of Serenity is not clear.

Why does he try to hide the sources of the files (no readme for some stuff, other readme hidden in a pk3)?

Why does he put a lot of models and maps in his mod while we could download them from the original source ? It could solve a lot of problems by just providing EoC IV as a code mod, and let people download themselves skins and maps (like Japlus or OJP).

Why are you making a lot of advertising, claiming EoC is the best mod, and then complaining that people critic your mod for not being exactly what it was claimed to be ?

 

 

All of us can have problems with wrong credits, forgeting some authors or asking permission to wrong people. I made mistakes like that, but I always tried to say what was made by me and what was made by someone else, even I didnot know who it was.

Here, Serenity is not in this approach.

 

We are pointing the problems with your mod, not to bring "shame on you" but to help you correcting these issues and allowing you to release a proper mod, avoiding legal issues.

 

EDIT : it seems that Serenity and/or MattFiler deleted some posts on the first page. I asked for a video showing the class system and MattFiler made a video, but now there is no more his message. Strange.

[Futuza]

I think, the community at this point, expects and deserves some sort of answer from Serenity as to why he is both breaking copyright laws, and blatantly plagiarizing other peoples work.  This is neither acceptable, nor does it help the JKA community in any way.  As Clan FJA pointed out, we're not doing it because we hate you, but because we want credit when credit is due and we'd like EoC to be something the community would be happy to contribute to, knowing that their contributions would actually be credited.  The longer these issues go unaddressed the more this project begins to stink of KotF and the despicable and immoral development process used (aka: stealing other people's work) in creating that mod.  Will Serenity please give us an answer as to why he has not made his code available and why he has not credited the many modders and authors with what he has stolen?  If we can help you in making this mod a success and something worth having on JKHub, please let us know what we can do.

 

JKG went open-source and open-asset with the hope, that our work would be used to help other modders creating things worth creating.  I'm sure I speak for anyone who's work has been 'borrowed', JKG developers included, in stating that we are all very disappointed with Serenity's actions.  Please fix your shiz Serenity.

[Clan FJA]

Poke @MattFiler and @

[Jolly]

I don't mean to be that person but plagiarism was pretty clear from the start, surprising it took people this long to catch on. 

[Clan FJA]

We were not surprised, but we tried to give them a chance to correct that.

 

Seems that they royally ignore us, using shitty arguments.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

It seems that Updates are still being released on Moddb....The latest version was released last month on the 4th....Such a shame too, because it looks like he figured out how to make the scenes from JKO work with the animations JKA has. Even though I too did this with a personal set of scripts I made a while back (which I might release on here because I know everyone wants that, I even got the Galak scene to work), that doesn't excuse not answering people's questions....It looks like this is KOTF, but on a lesser scale, all over again....

[Darth Sion]

If you're interested.. This might be worth a look into. It shows some more information in regards to updates and such.

 

https://twitter.com/EoCIVnews

[TheWhitePhoenix]

If you're interested.. This might be worth a look into. It shows some more information in regards to updates and such.

 

https://twitter.com/EoCIVnews

That was five days ago....Still nothing....*Sighs*

[Rayce]

[Darth Sion]

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I think you mean..

 

[eezstreet]

[red]Thread locked.[/red]

If @@MattFiler or @@Serenity937 aren't going to keep this thread updated or answer any questions, might as well go ahead and lock it. Pages and pages of "any news?" don't really help. If one of those people wants to talk, they are welcome to PM me to unlock the thread and the discussion can continue. There's just really no point in keeping this thread open as it is however.

[eezstreet]

Thread unlocked

 

It looks like the mod was pulled from Moddb. Is there something that has happened to this mod?

[TheWhitePhoenix]

Thread unlocked

 

It looks like the mod was pulled from Moddb. Is there something that has happened to this mod?

Holy S***....O.o Either something is happening or...you and everyone else who were suspicious about Serentity and Matt's work were right....It might be KOTF all over again....Which is ironic, because I remember Serenity made his original Serenity Saber System in an effort to make KOTF what it could've been if done right.... What's also a shame...is that it seems like he and Matt got some of JKO's animations to work in JKA according to this....

[minilogoguy18]

This mod is just another KotF.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

This mod is just another KotF.

Which makes it hurt even more....

[Darth Sion]

I still have my EoC IV installation files, on my external hard drive. I haven't installed it yet, since I had EoC III. Whether I will or not, remains to be seen. I just haven't had time for it, with being bogged down with other JKA priorities. But I quite enjoyed EoC III, in all honesty.

[DrXann]

This mod is actually Movie Battles 2's combat system modified into both a single player and multiplayer mod.The animations are even identical to Movie Battles 2.

[Lancelot]

This mod is just another KotF.

No, K**F was worse. It was a disaster of a mod that just couldn't establish itself in the community in a positive way. It turned forum topics into battlefields and split the community into two parts, the supporters and the Anti-K**F activists.

Topics have been smashed to the ground, expectations have been shattered and the mod was laid to rest shortly before the long awaited full version was about to be released.

 

EoC IV might have similar attributes, but I'm staying rather neutral to it (because I can't tell what's going on "behind-the-scenes"). This mod has at least the chance to redeem itself, maybe by removing unpermitted or unnecessary content in the next updates for example.

[Lordregnis]

the new updates to 3.0 of this mod break your game. Brings up an error when you try and start your game and you have to reinstall everything all over again. beware. 

 

Also if you want to talk to these idiots, just go on their website and click chat. They hermit in the discordapp providing no support whatsoever.

[Hels]

I am done with this discussion. You all fools throwing hate. The fact is that serenity does NOT HAVE TIME to credit every single person. He doesn't want to hide the things, but he is acomplishing a lot of work alone, as long as he is the only developer for the mod.

About EoC III, had a Documents folder with documents of OJP. Damn it, is not made ON PURPOSE. Stop acting so childish, some of you might have time to give credits, but Serenity doesn't have time TO ANYTHING. I haven't seen him in weeks. He has a life behind the pc, and you can't force him to give credits to everyone, when probably half of them have been lost cause he is handling a lot of stuff.

He does not intentionally hide it, he isn't aswell such a active member of the communitty in what talking in forums is, and probably is not so much conscious of how the credit thing goes. HE DOES NOT THINK HE IS DOING SOMETHING BAD.

In adittion, he is having his house flooded, he has more problems rather than giving credit to people who made work that is free to use.

I think a lot of people has too much of an ego, and want to be credited for everything. Maybe he is not as much as clear as he should be, but he doesn't even think about it.

As someone said in this thread before, some mods have done much damage to the community by stealing content and claiming as own, and that has make some serious wounds to the community, and now you all judge each mod and developer who doesn't credit everything as a bad guy and throw rocks on him. Evolution of Combat has it's own small community, and we do know that he "steals" things from other. Not exactly stealing, cause he doesn't claim ownity. As I told before, we everyone know it's not it's job, and we don't care that much who is it. This is the net, the files are free.

On the other hand, I must recognize that even I thought is not a priority and it should not be, is always a sign of good education to thanks everyone that has helped you to help the mode or that you have taken work from. And he should state which is the source of his sabersystem, which has, without doubt, a lot of effort and time dedicated on it, is not just that he renamed OJP or OpenJK or whatever. I've seen different features of the game grow with pass of time and I know for good that he has some work behind it, but HE MUST GIVE SOME CREDIT.

This said, I am with everyone claiming a response from Serenity, and when he gives, I think all this mess will be cleaned up. I hope you all to be comprehensive with it's situation and it's working phylosophy, cause that's what life is about. Comprehension and good intentions. No one here wanted to cause any harm, so let's chill and be all friends.

Lastly, I wanted to make a petition here. I want Serenity and Eezstreet to solve their difference and try to make a huge mod that takes away MBII. As a player, I've been a mediocre mode as MB II (in what saber collision reffers) growing a lot more than it deserves. Evolution of Combat is a good mod. Unfinished, unpolished, has many flaws. But is a good mod. And JKG is ambitious. If you stop throwing shit each other, maybe you can do something big that reunites all the insatisfied MBII players (which are many) and get yourself a community and a name. Moreover, if you work together on a common project, no one will be stealing shit out of anyone.

On the other hand, you can all keep acting childish and force players to divide, and MBII, a game which has even worst collision than base JA, will keep on being the most renowned mod of JA without deserving it.

It is your fucking choice, but have in mind that a lot of unsatisfied players have the eyes on you.

[Ramikad]

It was reported some days ago on ModDB. Ufo posted a link to the report thread:

 

http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/infrigiment-report