Star Wars Episode VII Discussion

[Syko]

I watched it.

 

This is litereally the worst movie I have seen in the cinema.

 

Seriously, it's THAT bad.

 

I don't even want to get specific about things.

I'm thoroughly convinced you either didn't actually see the movie or are trolling, how you could possibly think this is the worst movie ever. Jar Jar is probably your favorite character in the saga.

[hleV]

Again, it's the worst movie I've seen in the cinema. I've seen, I don't know, maybe like 30-40 movies in the cinema in my life, including Star Wars prequel trilogy. I am absolutely not trolling (I never am), SW7 is very, very, very very very bad. Also I watched it with a friend and he absolutely agrees.

[Futuza]

Again, it's the worst movie I've seen in the cinema. I've seen, I don't know, maybe like 30-40 movies in the cinema in my life, including Star Wars prequel trilogy. I am absolutely not trolling (I never am), SW7 is very, very, very very very bad. Also I watched it with a friend and he absolutely agrees.

Please elaborate about what was wrong with it, you'll at least give people confidence you aren't trolling and have legitimate reasons for believing that.  I fully acknowledge it was a flawed film, but it's far from being "very very very very very bad".  If you thought it was bad, A New Hope by your standards would be at best a "mediocre, 4/10".

[Daedra]

I watched it.

 

This is litereally the worst movie I have seen in the cinema.

 

Seriously, it's THAT bad.

 

I don't even want to get specific about things.

 

 

Awesome. I don't have a problem with your opinion, because I don't care! More Star Wars for me in that case. Everyone needs to move on.

[Darth Sion]

Awesome. I don't have a problem with your opinion, because I don't care! More Star Wars for me in that case. Everyone needs to move on.

Y'know what.. I could not agree more.

[eezstreet]

Again, it's the worst movie I've seen in the cinema. I've seen, I don't know, maybe like 30-40 movies in the cinema in my life, including Star Wars prequel trilogy. I am absolutely not trolling (I never am), SW7 is very, very, very very very bad. Also I watched it with a friend and he absolutely agrees.

I am curious to learn why you hate this movie so much. I just back from the theater and here are my thoughts.

 

First off: screw the guy who decided that the last planet should be a water planet. My bladder is flipping you off.

 

One of the things I disliked about the movie was Kylo Ren. He has very little motivation for anything really other than being an angsty child. It leads to some rather unintentionally hilarious scenes in the movie, but it is just poorly explained to me. Similarly, Poe Dameron is a cardboard cutout good guy. He's...a good pilot, and that's about it.

 

 

And why did Kylo kill Han? That made no sense to me.

 

 

 

And another thing:

 

 

A lot of the scenes in the latter half felt like rehashing of even more of the same. For instance... the third death star is a mix of Return and A New Hope. But it just falls flat compared to these scenes. It's more of a shoutout to younger generations. I guess that was sort of the whole point though.

 

 

 

There are many many things this movie does right. The visuals feel upgraded yet very much in line with the original films. This movie has ups and downs and lots of action. It never gets boring at any point. This movie is as much of a rollercoaster with ups and downs as A New Hope.

 

The characterization is awesome, minus Lupita Nuongo's character, who never really got a chance to shine. Also Poe Dameron, as mentioned above. But Finn and Rey are extremely easy to identify with. And there are some awesome moments that feel completely natural. For instance,

 

 

A guy offers a bunch of rations to Rey for BB8 and her eyes light up. We can instantly understand why, seeing as how she was getting absolute crap before.

 

 

 

 

 

And everyone needs to take a fucking chill pill. I've had to hide like 10 posts. Last warning. Accept that some people like it and some don't. Do not make it personal.

[therfiles]

@@eezstreet

 

 

I think the reason Kylo killed Han (his father) is because Han is that pull to the light that he mentioned. Kylo idolizes Vader, but sees that he was seduced by sentimentality and connection. He knows that he needs to kill his father in order to become stronger, but he struggles with it (hence the whole "I know what I need to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"). However, as the light literally is sucked away from the scene, we see him finally muster the strength and he kills his father, and his connection to the light.

 

[Darth Sion]

@@eezstreet

 

 

I think the reason Kylo killed Han (his father) is because Han is that pull to the light that he mentioned. Kylo idolizes Vader, but sees that he was seduced by sentimentality and connection. He knows that he needs to kill his father in order to become stronger, but he struggles with it (hence the whole "I know what I need to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"). However, as the light literally is sucked away from the scene, we see him finally muster the strength and he kills his father, and his connection to the light.

 

This.. ^^

 

Because Kylo Ren is a very conflictive character.. Both physically and psychologically. He's fighting a battle all the time, to be stronger with the Dark Side and fighting against the Light Side. He kills Han (his father), because as stated by @@therfiles, he needs to rid himself of that emotional connection to his past to be able to become stronger with the Dark Side. He would do the same to his mother (Leia), given the opportunity. Even though, I could kinda' see it coming.. It was still quite shocking to see. I felt for Chewie, afterwards. He was seriously p*ssed, hence his killing spree of Stormtroopers, afterwards.

 

I thought the ending, was very bittersweet (in a way). With Luke's appearance and Rey going in search of him. Somewhere along the line though, I think there's more to Rey than we know. I think she has some connection to Luke & Leia, than just being a random girl, trying to make her way in the world on Jakku.

[Futuza]

This.. ^^

 

 

Because Kylo Ren is a very conflictive character.. Both physically and psychologically. He's fighting a battle all the time, to be stronger with the Dark Side and fighting against the Light Side. He kills Han (his father), because as stated by @@therfiles, he needs to rid himself of that emotional connection to his past to be able to become stronger with the Dark Side. He would do the same to his mother (Leia), given the opportunity. Even though, I could kinda' see it coming.. It was still quite shocking to see. I felt for Chewie, afterwards. He was seriously p*ssed, hence his killing spree of Stormtroopers, afterwards.

 

You uh...may want to spoiler that.

[NumberWan]

I feel now, that I was right to read spoilers - for myself. =) It explains some things, which somehow are omitted in the film. Currently I want to hear the opinions of two people I know, which have been the fans of Star Wars for quite a long time. They watched Episode IV-VI back in early 1980s and despite anything said about the prequels, they actually enjoyed them.

 

Episode VII has a few things, which can be called the traits of 2010s, which is only natural for sure. One thing that you can't help noticing is that TFA has a lot of female parts. It's okey, and I like it, but it is also unusual, because the Empire only relied on human males previously, but now there are several female commanders in the film. The Resistance also boasts a few like Dr.Kalonia, who treats wounded Chewbacca.

 

The discussion, whether Episode VII has to look like the Original Trilogy or whether it is a mistake, that TFA reminds A New Hope too much, well there was this video - just a reminder for all of us of what fans asked for from J.J.Abrams LONG before Episode VII. Watch the video and decide whether he complied with their request.

https://youtu.be/_joDNOpeWWo

[Fuse294]

 

I feel this is exactly how Vader would react.

[hleV]

So since I've been asked to elaborate, I'm gonna go and do that. I shall mention that the movie looks nice and all, but is horrible and unfinished as far as plot and logic go. I went on and watched ANH in order to forget about the mess I'd seen in the cinema, but I guess I'll have to remember (don't know why am I even doing this for you people, you shouldn't be worth it).

 

• Another Death Star. Seems like it's impossible to come up with anything new.
• Idiotic lightsaber. No explanation whatsoever. Am I supposed to believe that Kylo added the crossguard blades so he could torture people with them?
• Kylo as a character. Annoying. Childish. Has anger issues (kinda funny TBH but that doesn't add worth to the film). Like somebody mentioned (I think?), he's like a conflicted teen. That can never be good for a movie of this kind.
• Kylo is both the worst lightsaber user and the dumbest Force user ever. How does one fail to eliminate a non-Force sensitive guy that ever swung the lightsaber like 5 times? Even if he's that bad in lightsaber combat, how does he suddenly forget he has the Force and the opponent doesn't? We fucking saw him restrict that rebel's hand via Force before. He couldn't do that against Finn for plot reasons? That seems to be the explanation. And... then he lost to someone who just realized they are Force-sensitive and has never wielded a lightsaber. Is Kylo supposed to be a laughing stock? I couldn't tell due to how bad the movie was.
• Way to ruin all the Luke hype.
• The movie cut out some stuff seen in the trailers. Extended Edition incoming?
• Finn. A stormtrooper-turned-good? That is way too fucking convenient for the main party.

Should be enough for now.

 

 

[Fuse294]

So since I've been asked to elaborate, I'm gonna go and do that. I shall mention that the movie looks nice and all, but is horrible and unfinished as far as plot and logic go. I went on and watched ANH in order to forget about the mess I'd seen in the cinema, but I guess I'll have to remember (don't know why am I even doing this for you people, you shouldn't be worth it).

 

 

• Another Death Star. Seems like it's impossible to come up with anything new.
• Idiotic lightsaber. No explanation whatsoever. Am I supposed to believe that Kylo added the crossguard blades so he could torture people with them?
• Kylo as a character. Annoying. Childish. Has anger issues (kinda funny TBH but that doesn't add worth to the film). Like somebody mentioned (I think?), he's like a conflicted teen. That can never be good for a movie of this kind.
• Kylo is both the worst lightsaber user and the dumbest Force user ever. How does one fail to eliminate a non-Force sensitive guy that ever swung the lightsaber like 5 times? Even if he's that bad in lightsaber combat, how does he suddenly forget he has the Force and the opponent doesn't? We fucking saw him restrict that rebel's hand via Force before. He couldn't do that against Finn for plot reasons? That seems to be the explanation. And... then he lost to someone who just realized they are Force-sensitive and has never wielded a lightsaber. Is Kylo supposed to be a laughing stock? I couldn't tell due to how bad the movie was.
• Way to ruin all the Luke hype.
• The movie cut out some stuff seen in the trailers. Extended Edition incoming?
• Finn. A stormtrooper-turned-good? That is way too fucking convenient for the main party.

Should be enough for now.

 

 

 

 

 

On point 3 compared to the 99% stoic vader it was an improvement, to see someone throw a fit of anger (or tantrum depending on how you look at it) shows they are still very much a person, I sure as hell would have reacted like he did if shit fell apart.

On 4 Kylo had a hole in his side after being SHOT by Chewbacca, I'd like to see you fight someone with all your power when you're injured I'm not sure if you were aware but getting shot tends to hurt a lot! Finn still got his ass handed to him and you're complaining that Kylo took what 2 minutes longer to all but kill him? 

 

Lightsaber duels aren't about showing off they are about finesse, using what assets you have and what I saw was a man trying to save as much energy as he could by not using all his strength against someone like Finn, he knew he'd probably end up having to fight rey and he was very well aware she was started to develop her force abilities so he was being cautious, that's logic. Using certain abilities can take a toll on the user and clearly he didn't have the stamina remaining to pull off a Force Stasis on Finn AND fight Rey.

 

On 5 I semi agree, he could have said SOMETHING.

 

On 6 I noticed it was different, but that tends to happen with films, they remove bits for time constraints.

 

On 7, Han was once a Stormtrooper, General Reikan was once an imperial officer I fail to see your point? Finn harbored some negativity towards the First order because he was taken from his family at a very young age, he never knew them. He had a moral conflict when he saw people slaughtered just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, many imperials were known to defect during the Galactic Civil war because they didn't agree on the empires policies or they grew tired of the senseless slaughter and wanted to try and make things right.

 

[Onysfx]

So since I've been asked to elaborate, I'm gonna go and do that. I shall mention that the movie looks nice and all, but is horrible and unfinished as far as plot and logic go. I went on and watched ANH in order to forget about the mess I'd seen in the cinema, but I guess I'll have to remember (don't know why am I even doing this for you people, you shouldn't be worth it).

 

 

• Another Death Star. Seems like it's impossible to come up with anything new.
• Idiotic lightsaber. No explanation whatsoever. Am I supposed to believe that Kylo added the crossguard blades so he could torture people with them?
• Kylo as a character. Annoying. Childish. Has anger issues (kinda funny TBH but that doesn't add worth to the film). Like somebody mentioned (I think?), he's like a conflicted teen. That can never be good for a movie of this kind.
• Kylo is both the worst lightsaber user and the dumbest Force user ever. How does one fail to eliminate a non-Force sensitive guy that ever swung the lightsaber like 5 times? Even if he's that bad in lightsaber combat, how does he suddenly forget he has the Force and the opponent doesn't? We fucking saw him restrict that rebel's hand via Force before. He couldn't do that against Finn for plot reasons? That seems to be the explanation. And... then he lost to someone who just realized they are Force-sensitive and has never wielded a lightsaber. Is Kylo supposed to be a laughing stock? I couldn't tell due to how bad the movie was.
• Way to ruin all the Luke hype.
• The movie cut out some stuff seen in the trailers. Extended Edition incoming?
• Finn. A stormtrooper-turned-good? That is way too fucking convenient for the main party.

Should be enough for now.

 

 

I'm fine with the lightsaber, but everything else you said I agree with.

[Tempust85]

Some will like, some will hate. Just how it is with anything.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

 

I feel this is exactly how Vader would react.

Pretty much, yeah.

[eezstreet]

So since I've been asked to elaborate, I'm gonna go and do that. I shall mention that the movie looks nice and all, but is horrible and unfinished as far as plot and logic go. I went on and watched ANH in order to forget about the mess I'd seen in the cinema, but I guess I'll have to remember (don't know why am I even doing this for you people, you shouldn't be worth it).

 

• Another Death Star. Seems like it's impossible to come up with anything new.
• Idiotic lightsaber. No explanation whatsoever. Am I supposed to believe that Kylo added the crossguard blades so he could torture people with them?
• Kylo as a character. Annoying. Childish. Has anger issues (kinda funny TBH but that doesn't add worth to the film). Like somebody mentioned (I think?), he's like a conflicted teen. That can never be good for a movie of this kind.
• Kylo is both the worst lightsaber user and the dumbest Force user ever. How does one fail to eliminate a non-Force sensitive guy that ever swung the lightsaber like 5 times? Even if he's that bad in lightsaber combat, how does he suddenly forget he has the Force and the opponent doesn't? We fucking saw him restrict that rebel's hand via Force before. He couldn't do that against Finn for plot reasons? That seems to be the explanation. And... then he lost to someone who just realized they are Force-sensitive and has never wielded a lightsaber. Is Kylo supposed to be a laughing stock? I couldn't tell due to how bad the movie was.
• Way to ruin all the Luke hype.
• The movie cut out some stuff seen in the trailers. Extended Edition incoming?
• Finn. A stormtrooper-turned-good? That is way too fucking convenient for the main party.

Should be enough for now.

 

 

Kylo is very much somebody who admires Vader, so it makes sense that he would build another Death Star. He's a whiny teenager, which explains his outbursts. But why he is spoiled and whiny we will never know until another movie.

 

The cross saber isn't a stupid idea at all when you see him actually use it to his advantage in a saber lock. Before the movie I can see why you would think it is stupid, but after seeing it in action, it definitely has a unique advantage.

 

The rest of your points are really nitpicky, I think. Still valid, but not anything I think that makes this worse than the prequels. I honestly think you've lost your mind if you think this is worse somehow.

 

 

[Syko]

I was just thinking, since Kylo was trained by Luke, and then turned evil, that makes him pretty much like Desann from Jedi Outcast. Desann was a fallen Jedi who was trained by Luke. Seems like Luke needs to up his training game.

[JAWSFreelao]

Subjectivity.

[afi]

 

The question is if a whiny teenager is good material for a SW-villain. My biggest problems with this movie is really anything that has to do with Kylo Ren. His motivations, his lightsaber, the deathstar, the fighting scenes.
Compared to Anakin, Kylo Ren doesn't really have any kind of real motivations to join the dark side. He's like a spoiled teenager who want's to be against his parents just for the sake of it. What kind of villain is that? Episode III was really dramatic because Anakin joined the dark side, thinking he could save his wife doing that. EPIII even made the OT better by adding more drama to the character of Darth Vader. The whole plot of EPVII just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Actually I agree almost completely with @@hleV but in difference to him these points didn't ruin the whole experience for me. I think the first half of the movie was pretty great.

 

[Darth Sion]

Can I just ask.. Why on earth are we hiding spoilers?! The thread clearly states on the first page of the topic. Even the very first post;

"CAUTION: THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS"

So, people already know what they're getting themselves into. Which then, gives them the choice whether they want to proceed any further or not..

[afi]

It originally contained spoilers that were known before the movie was released, like behind the scenes pictures etc. Now it contains pretty much the whole story of the movie. You're right, people are already warned but I think as long as the movie is as new as it is today it's good to use the spoiler tag until the bigger part of mankind has seen it.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

If I may @, spoilers are gonna get out ANYWAYS. Whether here or somewhere else. Either way, that's how things are these days. It sucks though, yeah.

[afi]

Well I managed to see no spoilers at all before seeing the movie.

[Darth Sion]

I don't know if it was just me.. or if anyone else was given this feeling aswell. But I certainly felt this movie was certainly trying to give off the impression of "empowering women". I mean, I'm not sexist in any way and I don't necessarily have a problem with it, at all. But with Rey being one of the main characters in the movie and diving into her (back)story (still a lot of stuff we don't know about her), it certainly gave me that vibe of.. Disney, in this instance, I think.. Of them trying to empower women, so as not to look sexist and probably done as a publicity stunt of some sort, as the Prequel and Original Trilogies were about male characters and people may have complained about the Star Wars movies being too one-sided towards males. Although, I think Captain Phasma would've at least been able to put that to rest, somewhat.

I mean, even I didn't know that Captain Phasma was a woman, until like a week before the movie came out.