Star Wars: Rogue One

[JaceSolarisVIII]

As soon as i got home i watched Episode 4 A New Hope.It follows on just perfect.I was able to watch ANH with new eyes and It actually felt good to see the puzzle pieces come together.

[DrXann]

The movie was different from normal star wars saga movies it takes ideas from several well known games such as dark forces, battlefront, x-wing vs tie fighter, and, empire at war.The

recreation of Grand Moff Tarkin and Leia

was almost spot on.The ending is the highlight of the whole movie.I noticed the references to Star Wars Rebels thrown in.There at several things I didn't like

such and the blind seers constant preaching and that they killed off the ones who stole the plans(Still prefer Kyle stealing it)

The movie was excellent.

[Cerez]

One question: Can someone explain to me who Jyn Erso actually is, and where her dazzling fighting skills come from? Quoting the movie, please, not Wookiepedia. Because I didn't catch that... Or who any of the crew of Rogue One really are, for that matter.

 

I know who Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors are. I don't know these guys. (And yes, I've seen the film...

...and watched them die, feeling absolutely nothing for their ultimate sacrifice...)

 

[therfiles]

@@Cerez: Saw Gerrera says that she was the best soldier in his "cadre" and that's why he left her alone in a bunker. And that was like 5 (?) years before this film.

[Cerez]

@@Cerez: Saw Gerrera says that she was the best soldier in his "cadre" and that's why he left her alone in a bunker. And that was like 5 (?) years before this film.

When she was 17...? Wow... she must have had some combat experience... And that's why he left her, because she was the best...? Sure, that makes total sense... >.<'

(Even knowing that she was recognisable.)

 

[therfiles]

@@Cerez, no I think Gerrera left her since he thought she didn't need him anymore and she was "ready" (plus was a liability). To be fair, I think Gerrera's role was unfortunately underplayed by the film (he was incredibly interesting and his mentality was new to the Rebellion side of things). And...I don't know. Luke was a pretty good shot in Episode 4 (he was 19).

[Cerez]

And...I don't know. Luke was a pretty good shot in Episode 4 (he was 19).

Which he learned from hunting, growing up, as one of the only forms of entertainment, and a skill for survival in the harsh deserts of Tatooine... And he wasn't that good...

 

 

It's a shame they killed Saw as soon as they created him, so we may never know his angle. Reminds me of someone in a chrome plated armour... >.<'

 

[therfiles]

I guess my point is why do we need some sort of elaborate explanation for her skills when we had a quick line of dialogue and moved on? I could provide a similar long rationale for Jyn (who extensively fought with Saw) and explain her abilities.

 

 

And yeah! I understood why he was killed off, but he would have been an excellent voice of contrast for Jyn in the film. Plus I would have loved to see more of their relationship. Even one action scene. But I'm sure the filmmakers have a reason for not expanding more on this

 

 

[Cerez]

I guess my point is why do we need some sort of elaborate explanation for her skills when we had a quick line of dialogue and moved on?

Tell me, why I should care about Jyn, and what happens to her in the movie? What makes me care about her story (i.e. the majority of the movie)?

 

 

And yeah! I understood why he was killed off, but he would have been an excellent voice of contrast for Jyn in the film. Plus I would have loved to see more of their relationship. Even one action scene.

 

Precisely, I agree with you. That may have helped us bond with Jyn more, and actually relate to her on an emotional level.

Therefore giving us a proper, impactful ending.

 

 

But I'm sure the filmmakers have a reason for not expanding more on this

Yep, they have a reason alright: couldn't be bothered; there's no money in it... (i.e. "We know how to make money, not quality films. Don't hit us with this bullsh*t, just go buy a ticket to see the film already! We've given you enough marketing and fan-service.")

[Noodle]

One question: Can someone explain to me who Jyn Erso actually is, and where her dazzling fighting skills come from? Quoting the movie, please, not Wookiepedia. Because I didn't catch that... Or who any of the crew of Rogue One really are, for that matter.

 

I know who Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors are. I don't know these guys. (And yes, I've seen the film...

...and watched them die, feeling absolutely nothing for their ultimate sacrifice...)

 

 

She was trained by the Space Islamic State since she was a child. She's not even that much of a fighter (does she even shoot a blaster after they leave Jedha?). It's not like Jan Ors and Kyle Katarn had much of a backstory either that's not explained in books. 

 

When she was 17...? Wow... she must have had some combat experience... And that's why he left her, because she was the best...? Sure, that makes total sense... >.<'

(Even knowing that she was recognisable.)

 

 

In real life the Islamic State trains children for warfare. It's not far fetched to think she was a competent terrorist at 17 years old. And he says she was abandoned because she was the daughter of an imperial scientist and it'd be hard to cover that up. 

 

Which he learned from hunting, growing up, as one of the only forms of entertainment, and a skill for survival in the harsh deserts of Tatooine... And he wasn't that good...

 

 

It's a shame they killed Saw as soon as they created him, so we may never know his angle. Reminds me of someone in a chrome plated armour... >.<'

 

 

I guess hunting and growing up provide better training than actually being part of a rebel militia. 

 

Tell me, why I should care about Jyn, and what happens to her in the movie? What makes me care about her story (i.e. the majority of the movie)?

 

She's space Jean D'arc, rallying the rebellion behind a big common cause. If you didn't care about her, that's fine, but it seems you are just trying to simplify the movie by ignoring things that were explained in it. 

 

Here's my criticism of the movie: I think there should've been more interactions between Jyn and the crew, so they could fesh out their characters more. The movie tells you that Cassian has been working for the rebellion since he was 6 and that Jyn was raised as a child soldier, yet almost nothing comes out from it. In my opinion, the ship shouldn't just be a tool to travel from point A to point B, but the place where characters get to know each other. Like in ANH, when Han Solo tells Luke that he thinks the force is BS. That interaction is important because it makes Han's come back at the end a form of character growth (smuggler that believes in nothing begins to care about something bigger than him). 

 

I also didn't like the fact that the droid only communicated in the form of sassy quips. I get comedical relief, but even C-3PO had serious dialogue. 

 

And what's with Disney and the total incapacity of producing a decent OST? They've all those wonderful composers that make catchy songs for their animated films, but there isn't a single memorable track from their live action stuff. From Marvel to Star Wars, all the music they compose is dull and designed for background noise only. Can anyone humm the music that sounds when Jyn sees 

her father's message 

? or when they finally

retrieve the death star's plans

? It's a pity that Disney can't produce good music. I miss tracks that were as memorable as when Order 66 is activated, when Luke stares at the sunset, or when they're finally blowing up Death Star I.

[Xycaleth]

About the music: John Williams wrote the music for TFA. Rogue One is the first SW film to not be scored by Williams. It's not a Disney thing.

[DrXann]

Who put up all these spoilers.

[DarthStevenus]

The Youtube channel Every Frame a Painting did a video recently about the soundtracks of the Marvel movies.

 

 

I disagree with some of the reasons he brought up (that the music never defies your expectations), but it did inspire a bunch of response videos that are also interesting, like this one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVRiofzRErc

 

The composer for Rogue One also did the score for the Star Trek movies and Doctor Strange, and I've seen people point out before how similar the main themes of those movies are, so maybe he's just not a very creative composer? I'm not real familiar with his stuff beyond those movies.

 

Anyway, my biggest problem with the movie was the main character. Jyn was practically a blank slate to me, not much character to speak of. Like if I try and describe her personality, the best I can come up with is that she's kind of tough and resourceful, and she misses her dad.

[Futuza]

Jyn has about as much character as Bella from Twilight.  She's a blank slate designed purely to be a window through which the viewers experience the film.  She has no remarkable traits or quirks which make her stand out, simply that she wants to rescue her dad and fight the evil empire, but...every generic hero wants to do that.  Every line she says is literally something anyone would say if they were in the same situation.  She's 100% relatable, and 0% unique.  There are about fifty things they could have done to fix this, but poor plot planning held them back from giving her a real character because of lack of running time. 

 

 

The movie ran 2h and 15 minutes or so, one hour of that time was nearly pointless.  From the first hour we learn a few important things: 1) Jyn is the daughter of an Imperial scientist who doesn't want to work for the Empire and sends her into hiding to protect her, her mother was killed by the Empire. 2) Jyn was raised by someone the Rebel's consider an extremist ie: flat out terrorist. 3) The Death Star can blow stuff up pretty good. 4) There's a rumor Jyn's dad is leaking information about the Death Star and knows its weakness.  5) IP Man, a blind Jedi fanboy (and his friend) who's temple was excavated by the Empire and wants revenge. 6) The Rebels hired Jyn to get close to her Dad and learn Empires plans 7)An Imperial Pilot betrayed the Empire and is scared, but brave.  Literally everything else could be taken out of the movie without losing anything from that first hour.  Gerrera's character was interesting, but completely pointless.  Like that torture scene?  Take it out and it won't change the movie at all.  Also when Bodhi Rook's the most dynamic character of the movie, you've got something wrong in the character development department.

 

 

 

It's interesting that the music for Rogue One was so lackluster in my opinion, especially since I like some of Michael Giacchino's stuff.  eg: His stuff from the StarTrek reboot in 2009 was amazing. I feel like maybe he's gotten burnt out lately as a composer, needs to take a break and study some more classical music then come back and do a movie every once in a while.  However, that being said, it also isn't fair to compare someone else to John Williams, he's literally the best movie composer alive.  While Hans Zimmer and others can certainly make beautiful music it isn't nearly as refined and powerful as William's score.

[Noodle]

The Youtube channel Every Frame a Painting did a video recently about the soundtracks of the Marvel movies.

 

 

I disagree with some of the reasons he brought up (that the music never defies your expectations), but it did inspire a bunch of response videos that are also interesting, like this one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVRiofzRErc

 

The composer for Rogue One also did the score for the Star Trek movies and Doctor Strange, and I've seen people point out before how similar the main themes of those movies are, so maybe he's just not a very creative composer? I'm not real familiar with his stuff beyond those movies.

 

Anyway, my biggest problem with the movie was the main character. Jyn was practically a blank slate to me, not much character to speak of. Like if I try and describe her personality, the best I can come up with is that she's kind of tough and resourceful, and she misses her dad.

 

Those are very interesting videos, nice! 

 

About the music: John Williams wrote the music for TFA. Rogue One is the first SW film to not be scored by Williams. It's not a Disney thing.

 

The production of that soundtrack is odd, Williams didn't work with The London Symphony Orchesta, and he didn't work with the final reel of the film, so most of his work was butchered by Abrams when he re-edited the film. I think it lacks the strenght that previous works by Williams have. 

[NumberWan]

Michael Giacchino is great, and did a great job in Rogue One. However it works just fine in the film, it's not the same, when you listen to it separately, unlike the music for Episodes I-VI. A similar problem was with Episode VII, though a few themes come to my mind, if I try to recall. The very first track sounded especially good.

Saw Guerrera has indeed a smaller role in the film, than I thought, but I am glad, we don't see him joining the main team. I would also say, that I felt relieved, when I saw, that Saw had his own group and goals, and stepped away from the Alliance: thus we don't see or hear about him in A New Hope events. Naturally.

Jyn Erso is indeed a very simple character: I would even say, that the first minutes of her in the film could remind us of any movie about a girl, losing her parents, the pattern is in there. Yet, it's still interesting to see what's what next. I do believe, that somehow it's complicated to create an original heroine here: most of the films showed quite a lot already, and even more difficult to surprise an old-time Star Wars fan these days (hey, we are on JK forum after all!).

 

We might compare her to Kyle Katarn, who wouldn't be original these days either, but he was lucky enough to be created in an interesting period for Star Wars franchise – between OT and the prequels, and more importantly he regained his personality despite huge changes to his status, from a stormtrooper to rebel agent, and later to Jedi Knight and even Master.

 

 

If you look at Cassian Andor on Scarif, his clothes remarkably remind of Katarn's attire. To some extent.

One of the really good sides about Jyn, which I actually admire – is that she is not a Jedi. And she doesn't intend and doesn't become one. In this regard I like Rogue One above some others, as it brings back the words of Kreia:
 

Atton: "Explain something to me."
Kreia: "I do not have the years required – nor the desire to indulge you."
Atton: "If she served in the war... well, Jedi are supposed to be tough. Capable."
Kreia: "Yes, and what are they without the Force? Take the greatest Jedi Knight, strip away the Force, and what remains? They rely on it, depend on it, more than they know. Watch as one tries to hold a blaster, as they try to hold a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a woman – or a man. A child."

This concept is quite true to the Original Trilogy, as by the time of Episode VI release, the common idea was that everybody could be a Jedi. The midichlorians in Episode I slightly changed the concept, which undoubtfully remained the same: there is a level of the Force within the individuals, but their resolve, their efforts and other qualities might or might not pave the way to become a Master of the Force at one point – if they desire.

 

Nevertheless this time I feel more satisfied as a Star Wars fan, because I got the necessary dosage of excitement like when I watched A New Hope for the first time, and when I saw The Phantom Menace release, marking the return of the Galaxy to my #1 interests.

[the_raven]

personally I can't watch the movie - none of my damned friends want to go see it with me (and going alone is boring)! still, what i can say is that i don't much like the main actress, but it's just a matter of personal taste

[Barricade24]

One thing I am still curious about is what are the Death Troopers? They certainly weren't human.

[DrXann]

They didn't have much of a role aside from Jyn's backstory.

[Noodle]

One thing I am still curious about is what are the Death Troopers? They certainly weren't human.

 

They could be using some sort of filter that alters their voice so non-imperial soldiers can't understand what they're saying. 

[NumberWan]

I found a video (now obsolete, I guess), where someone combined the last scene of Rogue One together with Episode IV opening scene. There are several things, which come to my mind now:

 

 

 

- As noticed in one message: Vader kills all the Rebels aboard the larger Alliance ship with much brutality, however he seems to be acting differently when aboard Tantive IV. Some suggest, he might have been exhausted by the previous battle, or that he let the troopers do all the work, while he could deal with the Rebel leaders or the "ambassador" himself.

 

- Princess Leia seems to be a very bad actress, and a fool, if she is trying to trick Vader into believing Tantive IV left a large Rebel ship, taking action against the Empire on Scarif (or she is buying time). We might assume, the remaining crew wasn't sure if they saw Vader in the last minute, or they simply failed to tell Leia, that the Sith Lord is after them and not just some Imperials, and that Vader was aware of all the situation.

 

 

- In A New Hope Vader says, that Leia's ship received several transmissions from the Rebel spies, which might or might not mean, that there was something else aside from the Death Star plans (my personal idea – is that Kyle Katarn stole the other part of the schematics on Danuta and also transmitted his part to Leia )

 

- I can now clearly say, that while A New Hope can exist and bring the story without any Expanded Universe, Rogue One certainly fails to do the same without A New Hope.

[milestails]

Just saw the film. Liked the CGI

Tarkin and Leia

. Really cool to see the

Rebel pilots from ANH

as well. Costumes and makeup were appropriate for the "1970s." Cool to see

Bail Organa and Mon Mothma

.
 
Was surprised by the lack of an opening crawl, but I guess that had already been done in the Clone Wars film. Opening crawls are reserved for Episodes I guess.
 
About

everyone dying at the end: I had talked about this on Deadly Stream in the past - if we don't see these people in the OT, then they must all die in the film.

I am glad that I was proved to be right.
 
Loved the transition scenes to ANH at the end.
 
Definitely worth a second viewing.
 
Now some issues:
 
Jyn Erso - Jan Ors - seriously think of a more original name? "Rebellions are built on hope." - cringeworthy
Reused plot points -

infiltrating a base in disguise, using a stolen Imperial ship to gain access somewhere

Hammerhead ramming Star Destroyer - I thought this was absolutely ridiculous. A small ship moving the enormous Star Destroyer? Give me a break.

I am one with the Force and the Force is with me - too much of this
Chirrut Îmwe - Completely bogus how

he wasn't shot while walking to the switch.

Krennic - I will quote Jurassic Park, "SHOOT HER!"
Saw Gerrera - unnecessary character

Kyber crystal - It is supposed to be spelled Kaiburr.

[NumberWan]

@@milestails

Yes, that's the point. I also enjoyed seeing familiar faces a lot. In terms of Jan Ors reference and other aspects, yes, they could have moved farther from the already existing stories.

 

As for the Hammerhead

 

It was originally planned to appear in Episode VII, but was cut, instead they added it into Rogue One. I have to say, that it is still quite strange to see this sort of maneuver, because even the new canon suggests, that the ships are from the Old Republic era (confirmed in Rebels). As they are seen in SWTOR (even though not canon), we might assume, they are very-very old).

 

 

And for your comment on Chirrut Îmwe, well, someone made a picture

 

[milestails]

Perhaps a separate spoilers thread is necessary at this point?

[mrwonko]

Perhaps a separate spoilers thread is necessary at this point?

That's probably a good idea. Feel free to start one!