Rig a ported model

[Tulak Hord]

Hi all,

 

I'd like to ask someone to rig a ported model, if it isn't problem. I rally like this model and i think others will like it too. It's Tulak Hord armor set from SWTOR and it's really amazing. Plz, mercy my soul! I tried to doit myself, really, but i couldn't do it. :S

Here is the link:

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1432604

and the colorful version from SWTOR:

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/swtor-tulak-hords-armor-set-star-cluster-nightlife-pack-male.jpg

 

Thank you guys!

 

Best Regards,

Ben

[Daedra]

I agree someone should get this rigged, ready to play in JKA. However since it is ported material there is a chance it may not be done so soon. But a request is a request so of course someone may attempt it but it sure as hell won't be hosted on this site, that's for sure.

[JAWSFreelao]

It'd probably crash anyway. Too many verts = ran out of transform space for Ghoul2.

[Tulak Hord]

JAWSFreelao, how much is the cap of the verts?

[Daedra]

JAWSFreelao, how much is the cap of the verts?

 

The max is 1000 verts.

[Asgarath83]

it's possible to solve with a massive detach \ separate of mesh.

[Oobah]

Ported or not, most models that have capes and long flaps tend to look ugly regardless in JK because it always comes off as if the model has a flat piece of cardboard attached to them.  But some people overlook those things.  Either way even if it was ported and uploaded on jkhub I would say you wont see to many using it anyway, at least these days.  The amount of work needed to port it =/= worth a persons time for the final result.

[Tulak Hord]

oh...ok, understand. I can hope, I know, but i don't want to put myself into false dreams. :S 

Then somone, who know, how to do it, and good in it (wheigting and "rig"ing) could help me? I need a very detailed tutorial. If it's possible with pictures and videos. :$

[Ramikad]

It'd probably crash anyway. Too many verts = ran out of transform space for Ghoul2.

 

Blender has a very useful Decimate tool that decreases poly (and vertex) count.

[Oobah]

Blender has a very useful Decimate tool that decreases poly (and vertex) count.

 

Verts are only a problem if you're looking to do a DIRECT port which isn't going to happen.  Newer game content to older game content requires you to still know what you're doing with your modeling program/applications to get it working in an older game.  Porting older content to newer games is honestly, easier but still requires you to know what your doing.

 

oh...ok, understand. I can hope, I know, but i don't want to put myself into false dreams. :S 

Then somone, who know, how to do it, and good in it (wheigting and "rig"ing) could help me? I need a very detailed tutorial. If it's possible with pictures and videos. :$

 

Even porting content still requires you know how to do the modeling program.  Is no real shortcuts on the matter even weighing still needs you to learn how to edit the mesh, delete mesh portions, understand how weighing the mesh to bones effects how the model bends, etc. 

 

Main difference between a person who is of the more "holy" compared to the "dirty porter/frankenstein" to the community is you can either be a person who tweaks/fixes/creates content from scartch or someone who kinda does less of the main grunt work and does lighter end stuff which really is all porting is, porting is just lighter end mesh related things.  Both still draw from the same skills to produce the content just porting is lighter end stuff.  But even porting still requires you to know how to use the modeling program of your choice as well as understanding what weighing a model truly is about.  Most difficult part is learning how to use the modeling program itself.  You're gonna be stuck probably doing a lot more grunt work testing and learning before you even directly port the model and honestly first time you port the model over you will find you probably didn't do a real good job on the port itself.  Even weighing a model can be an art in itself.  Even people who really are good at it and know what they're doing can still make certain rigs/weighs that look really bad or ugly to other folks.  Is no set in stone process to learning how to do it, just takes time and practice.

 

Community has a very ignorant stigma tied to porting sadly despite it still needing same core skills to learn to do it, that probably will not change.  The main thing you should take away from porting like mapping or anything else is to do it because you enjoy it and or find some sort of enrichment out of it.  Not because you wanna be popular or cool or some sorta voice for how things gotta go your way or the highway.  No matter how skilled you get in what you do you can still learn something new and still make mistakes.

 

Look up the guides people generally post about on modeling itself for JK, that should help you get on the path of knowing how to get what you want from point A to point B.  Point B being JA.  Also going to have to research ways in which the model is saved (.obj, .dae, .fbx, .xsi, etc), how to import it into the modeling program you use (scripts, plugins for the modeling program, etc), how to export it to be compiled, and test it in modview and in game to see if you're satisfied with the level/quality of the content you produced.

[Szani95]

do it!

[Tulak Hord]

thank you for the help, Oobah !

I made lightsaber hilts... a couple... from SWTOR, but they are not ported. I looked for a lot of pictures and I made them. 

So a little, i made little models. I know, a character is way more difficult than a hilt. 

[Oobah]

thank you for the help, Oobah !

I made lightsaber hilts... a couple... from SWTOR, but they are not ported. I looked for a lot of pictures and I made them. 

So a little, i made little models. I know, a character is way more difficult than a hilt. 

 

Longer time frame, but it's honestly no more difficult.  They still rely on the same core basics of construction and good solid foundation aka basics will always come back no matter how advance a project gets.  A character model has animations tied to it and a skeleton but even a hilt still has tags just like a character model skeleton has as well.  It is a few extra steps but it's still more or less the same.  Even a weapon can be setup to make use of animations and such as well if you wish to create new weapon styles and so forth also so in the grand scheme it all ties together, none of which is any more seperate than the other.

[Futuza]

 

Community has a very ignorant stigma tied to porting sadly despite it still needing same core skills to learn to do it, that probably will not change.  

That's an odd way of saying, people don't usually want to work on porting models because of the legal gray areas associated with them.  There's a stigma because people don't want to get in trouble/break the law.  Simple as that.

 

Additionally making a new model from scratch is generally more appreciated because it requires a little bit more creativity, still requires weighing the model, usually ends up with cleaner results, and offer more more control over the development of the life cycle of the model.  I don't really think very many people are going, "porting a model iz such noobish and u have nien skillz 2cheap4me".  It certainly does require skills, but that's not usually the reason there's a "stigma" around porting models.  It's because of the legal issues around doing it and the fact that such models tend to have lower quality results compared to original works.

[Oobah]

 

 

That's an odd way of saying, people don't usually want to work on porting models because of the legal gray areas associated with them.  There's a stigma because people don't want to get in trouble/break the law.  Simple as that.

 

Additionally making a new model from scratch is generally more appreciated because it requires a little bit more creativity, still requires weighing the model, usually ends up with cleaner results, and offer more more control over the development of the life cycle of the model.  I don't really think very many people are going, "porting a model iz such noobish and u have nien skillz 2cheap4me".  It certainly does require skills, but that's not usually the reason there's a "stigma" around porting models.  It's because of the legal issues around doing it and the fact that such models tend to have lower quality results compared to original works.

 

 

It is a stigma, not because of legal grey areas.  If it was a legal grey area Valve would have knowingly shut down a vast majority of the content for Garry's Mod.  Vast majority of websites that post ported content would have also been shut down as well.  It's stupid to assume that companies anymore so than the players are not aware of content being ported/used. 

 

You can do same level of work on a ported model to the point it looks just as much like an originally created piece of work, even ported content still needs same level of weighing/rigging/and it's development only stops when no one wants to work on it anymore, just like originally created content.

 

Only real difference in the work load with ported content and original content is really no difference at all.  A person can spend entire life working on 1 model if they really want to make it "perfect" but no one does that cause it's a waste of a life.

 

This also borders onto the fact that what is the real point of buying physical media, let alone digital, if you don't own it in some manor, shape, or way.  Does this also make you personaly responsible if you let a friend borrow said content but they're the ones that rip any of the game content themselves and distribute it despite your knowledge of it, are we going to pass off responsibility of the person who ports it despite coming from a specific source?  We have no problems with unearthing centuries of art and poetry or culture and "touching it up" or "renovating" it for use of the modern age, at the very least simply look at it which is ultimately what a lot of the ported content is till someone personally downloads it and puts it on there computer for said video game which means using the games animations and so forth.  Are people fundamentally arguing/saying that if you utilize the content in any way outside of the box it is put into, you are morally wrong despite the fact we borrow/mix and match and composite ideas from varied sources into other things.  What makes the mesh/model inanimate object any better or worse than someone making a carbon copy of an original piece of work from scratch?

 

What about photsourced content taken from the internet itself and put on models used in JK games?  Hapslash, Toshi, and the list goes on of people who either copied a specific image from another source, regardless if they did the textures from scratch, they had no real claim to the original image or idea itself.  Should we remove there content on top of all things based off Force Unleashed by others, SWG by others, Kotor by others simply because they simply did a mock copy of an original idea at the very least?  You can argue and debate about porting content, but isn't ported content just a direct mock copy and a shorter workload/time frame honestly?  How about every time a new Star Wars movie comes out people instantly jump on the band wagon of wanting that same content in some way put into JK.  We have no original claim to the original source or content but we applaud people who make it from scratch but stigma those who do some sort of ports, whether people want to admit it or not.  What makes direct porting, which is just a shorter time frame, any worse or better than someone literally making a carbon copy of the content on a longer time scale? 

 

Is it simply because people, not due to legal issues because ported content and even mock copy ideas still get through, feel some level of guilt that they can't use that cause they'll get there hands slapped?  Then why is games like Garry's mod still up and running.  Why is there a billion Dayz like games or mock copy art styled games trying to take the thunder out of WoW?  If there was no ported content that means most of us would have to honestly create content and ideas from scratch and considering how much content even JK relies on that is from another source, we wouldn't even have over 75% of the content we got now regardless of what level it was produced on.  Least people can do is be honest to the best of there abilities where things are specificly coming from and give credit where credit is due.  I feel people are more infatuated with an image of something, rather than accepting the reality of it never truly being able to live up to the image of it.

 

Hapslash even told people not to frankenstein his model, people did it anyway.  Are we going to remove a vast majority of frankenstein Hapslash jedi robe models now?

 

No, I'm not saying everyone should port content and try to come up with nothing but original content.  I'm saying people are still very black and white on the matter despite the fact the main hot spots of JA have always been very specific, it hasn't stopped people still porting and producing content on multiple levels in other places.  Who is truly right and wrong on this matter?  I don't think anyone can give a clear answer on that in any way.  At one point or another everyone has used a ported model, to at the very least see it in modview, even look at the textures.  I don't see MBII burning to the ground any more so than people making full scale mod creations off Dark Forces2/1 despite the fact people can still openly play the original game/content.  It's okay to recreate that content because it was apart of the Jedi Knight series, but it's wrong to recreate or port even at the very least 1 single texture from Kotor less that's done from scratch like old Dark Forces games?  So we should only keep specific ported/recreated content only in the box/game series it came from but not bridge it into other things we may enjoy or love to see it be given new life?

 

This issue has always more so been on models setup and to be used for the _humanoid and people to play as iconic characters, I have not seen porting come up really if at all for anything other than player models.  You can't sit there and slap peoples hands for player models and go a blind eye to potential maps, scripts, and textures that used content from other games.  Sith Council V2 has quake 3 models in it, hell even a few photosourced things on here.  I don't see anyone complaining about it right now because not everyone is aware of that.  Is everyone supposed to magically know everything and anything about the content that comes in?  That's very restrictive and borderline madness, you can't expect everyone to be on the same level with this kinda stuff and at the very least not explain why it is fundamentally wrong.  Only reason I see people complain about this legally is purely because of money and nothing else and that's a silly way to percieve any sort of content.  More to life than just money.

 

Personally, I feel it is better to let people to personally decide and share there insight on the matter rather than being a brick wall about it and try to shush everything up or try to hide it like it is a disease.  People should be more than happy to speak openly and honestly about this rather than acting like it's a crime and a crime alone.  If you, again, own the original content and release/port it despite the fact you put it out there and are not making any money off it.  Is that any better or worse than those that choose to download it and use it for there own ends?  If you say yes it is bad or wrong, than you instantly open the flood gate for something potentially worse, such as someone actually charging money for the content or asking for favours to port the content from people who are very hungry/desperate for it.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Oobah

[Tempust85]

No one has issue with recreated assets as far as I'm aware, just assets that are ported. Fact is, this site WILL NOT EVER host any ported content due to it being illegal. Sure there's more to life than just money, but try telling that to the developers who get sites shutdown over ported assets. It's moreso a legal stance than a moral one. Maps, models & texture ports are all equally frowned upon but I've never heard of anyone bitching over scripts before.

 

If you want a site that has ported content hosted, please kindly go somewhere else.

[Futuza]

@@Oobah I think you missed the part where I said it was legally gray.  Just as you've mentioned the logical differences and ways that modern copyright laws work is very non-clear cut.  Regardless of whether or not something should be allowed, most people (and JKHUB) takes the stance that if there's a possibility of getting sued or breaking the law we should draw the line before that possibility can occur.  JKHUB does not have the funds to afford millions of dollars of legal fees to fight EA/Bioware/etc's lawyers - so they play on the safe side by saying no to ported material.  JKHub would not survive a court battle because they decided to host illegal content.

 

If you want a site that disregards copyright law and embraces freedom from copyright law, then go hop on a proxy and go wander around the darknet - there are plenty of sites out there.  If you want it to be legal then start bribing your congressmen/legal representatives and vote for statesmen who support such views.

[Daedra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

[Oobah]

http://jkhub.org/files/file/774-malak-reskin-by-tobe/

 

http://jkhub.org/files/file/1004-toshis-anakindarth-vader/

 

http://jkhub.org/files/file/517-sith-council-v2/

 

Sith Council teleporters are quake 3 based models aka ported.

 

Would also photosourced textures via Toshi models also count as ported content since the original textures were not in JK either.  Also looks like this site DOES have some ported content in it already.

 

How about Hapslashes own words on to NOT frankenstein his models as well as people more or less uploading and treating Hapslash like a door mat, across multiple games via making money off it in other games, even here with frankenstein models yet have no problem hosting/using that content either. 

 

Can I alter one of your models into my own Frankenstein creation?[/color]

I'd rather you not. if you're truly creating new content for the community, pitch me your idea. otherwise... I'll say no if you ask.

 

Okay to treat someone you consider "your own" like a doormat but you have no problem of playing the yay or nay card for other things specificly while going a blind eye to how butchered his own work has become?  Might say, no copywrite on that, so then there is also no respect for what he put his time/energy/hard work/heart into either?

 

Don't you think that is as hypocritical as regular ported content, despite the fact even original created content comes from other sources or at the very least a simple idea?  You can't use yoda models in SW:ToR, do you think Lucas Arts would mind people using playable Yoda models in JA/JO?

 

People only care about anything like ported content when they are made aware of it, they don't care beyond that otherwise.  You do realize also that even on jk2files some content was ported, textures taken from other sources besides video games.  Do textures count as ported content via google and do people ask for the okay for that content to be used specificly in JK?

 

How about people who practice on content, did people get the personal okay to open up another persons map source, import a .glm model into 3ds max to at the very least learn how to do those things in line with creating your first model?  What about likeness of creations, you don't think a likeness is any more/less a port of content?

 

 

@@Oobah I think you missed the part where I said it was legally gray.  Just as you've mentioned the logical differences and ways that modern copyright laws work is very non-clear cut.  Regardless of whether or not something should be allowed, most people (and JKHUB) takes the stance that if there's a possibility of getting sued or breaking the law we should draw the line before that possibility can occur.  JKHUB does not have the funds to afford millions of dollars of legal fees to fight EA/Bioware/etc's lawyers - so they play on the safe side by saying no to ported material.  JKHub would not survive a court battle because they decided to host illegal content.

 

If you want a site that disregards copyright law and embraces freedom from copyright law, then go hop on a proxy and go wander around the darknet - there are plenty of sites out there.  If you want it to be legal then start bribing your congressmen/legal representatives and vote for statesmen who support such views.

 

I never asked anyone to disregard copywrite laws, let alone to port content.  I'm simply asking personal opinions rather than the same old "no, cause we said so" attitudes.  I'm trying to see where people personally feel/stand on the content itself and seeing what answers come out of in between all the comparing and constrasting what we potentially know/don't know rather than just trying to act like I know all the answers, cause I honestly don't know what other people think or may feel about it.  I'm simply curious of this, not to mention there is still ported content hosted on sites and places outside jkhub and none of those have either been shut down and I have yet to see any sort of lawsuit against people who port stuff to Garry's Mod (even JK models).

 

True freedom is self responsibility, things used/not used are based upon how you percieve them.  I'm not personally asking anyone to use any content, I merely pointed out at one point or another any kind of ported content whether you were aware of it, or not, has come into your modview, base folder, etc.  We all start out inexperienced at JK and I imagine, I honestly don't know, people have probably used ported content going all the way back to downloading it via pcgamemods.com.  Hate it or love it people still wanted to get some kinda content off it regardless.  Look at the impact of content we lost on that site. 

 

What about people ripping assets from other peoples work in JK.  Would a personal level of copywrite aka respect or personal responsibilty be enough for another persons work in JK also count in asking for there approval to utilize said content and also how many people personally try to get into contact with said people before they use/recreate other peoples content into new content also?  How many people have used textures from gcx for personal clan stuff asked for responsibility to use it or jedi's home or even MBII based textures?  Does anyone truly know or have an answer to that?

 

I've personally edited, tinkered, and ported content.  Not because I wanted a name for myself, but purely because I wanted to learn how they did those things, and also to learn something new.  I don't use to much of other peoples content in JK anymore honestly, most content I use now is content I personally put some level of work into, even at the very least if it was ported and always willing to give credit and if people really wanna know where I get any content I'm more than happy to tell them.  Are people going to personally create a mod to regulate content in base folders?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

 

If no one cares, why would people discuss it, debate, or even make a comment about caring about it?  Even a reply alone about who cares on the topic means you're aware of it on some level even if it is just the topic title.  So obviously you care enough to ask who cares.  I care, if you wanna know the truth.  Perhaps some kinda knowledge or something I didn't know/aware of can be imparted upon me about this matter.

 

Before anyone says something stupid like "oh you must torrent all your stuff cause you port".

 

Only thing I don't legally own is 3ds max but this borders onto the simple fact that I tinker with things, I don't do it for money or profit.  I do it as a hobby and enjoyment and I don't lawd it over people to go out and do the same there is plenty of free alternatives for modeling software.  I legaly bought and own windows 7 ultimate, microsoft word, photoshop, kotor, kotor 2, etc.  Point being is one person isn't souly the mouth piece of what is best for others and in regards to ported content I'm curious on a personal level of other people consider to be ported and if they're okay with using ported textures or music but against ported models.  Doesn't that sound a little like playing favorites or these other 10 bad things are good, but this 1 bad thing is wrong?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Oobah

[Oobah]

tl;dr

 

To long to read than obviously legality of content porting doesn't truly interest you either anymore so than the rules that jkhub enforces on what is allowed/not allowed.

 

People who complain about it can just say "I don't truly care", at least you're more honest about it to other people.

 

http://jkhub.org/topic/5469-pm-me-if-interested/?p=80494

 

@eezstreet

 

If you wish to close this topic also you're more than welcome to, I fully understand.

 

Good to know I'm the passive aggressive (denotes avoidance, I don't honestly believe I'm avoiding anything even in this topic and anyone could of view either topic, even the admins could see that topic like this one and I was aware that the admins could view it.  Also I did try having a discussion via PM alone and tried having that conversation about the ported content but the admin choose not to answer or reply to what I sent to him.  No I'm not mean enough to say who it was that sent that less they either want to post or say it's alright that I post it here). 

 

How am I passive aggressive exactly?

 

What would my edit lines be besides showing people I'm also correcting whatever gramatical mistakes as well as new things I add into what I type?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Oobah

[Daedra]

To long to read than obviously legality of content porting doesn't truly interest you either anymore so than the rules that jkhub enforces on what is allowed/not allowed.

 

People who complain about it can just say "I don't truly care", at least you're more honest about it to other people.

 

I believe JKHub is right for not allowing ported content -- that is why your submissions were denied + you was warned by an Admin. I'm not complaining about it -- I see large walls of text that seem to be more bothered about it than I am.

[Oobah]

I believe JKHub is right for not allowing ported content -- that is why your submissions were denied + you was warned by an Admin. I'm not complaining about it -- I see large walls of text that seem to be more bothered about it than I am.

 

Of course they're in there right.  I'm not talking about right and wrong.  I'm trying to have a conversation with peoples personal views/opinions on what truly ported content is about, or what truly constitutes ported content without people assuming, presuming, or thinking any single thing typed or put here is going to magically change jkhub up.  Nothing I type is to be taken as law or the golden rule anymore so than anyone else.  Plus I'm aware of other sites who have ported content.  But I don't see anyone really just talking about the general idea or stuff about porting content.  Place like jkhub just get "it's illegal".  I'm aware that it gets into a kinda weird yes and no situation but what about people specificly, has anyone else used ported content.  Was it really that terrible, considering we have maybe about a 300 or so playerbase left in JA potentially?

 

The conversation turned a direction of me more so taking the reigns despite what was originally posted which I do apologize for.  But open conversations of ANY kind on sensitive matters such as this flare just about everyone up regardless of how level headed we try to make it, let alone how we think we might come off to other people.

 

As for the large wall of text, trying to explain something in full detail can get lengthy, it can be annoying for anyone really.  Just imagine how much you gotta correct or change or alter if you make a silly mistake.  Even sumerizations don't work out to well for some people, that's myself included.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I don't personally care if they deny the content a billion times over, they personally don't want such content here, fine whatever.  People still have a right to choose what they want, they don't seem to mind new topics on ported content coming up but seem to mind someone actually doing the ported work, so that's been made apparent at least.  But what about the other content here that is ported in some way shape or form?  Not to mention the fact that denying me in regards to said "ported content" that still doesn't stop ported content happening even on clan based forums.  What about some clans/communities linked or hosted here via jkhub, are they going to need to be policed for any content or links that may be ported as well?

 

I even posted multipe times I have ported content in my own maps I posted here, why not remove those also on top of the ported models I posted?  Not going to wound my pride or hurt my feelings, people have the content already and they'll just manually share it or just ask me for a link if they truly have intrest in it as well.  I still don't know how I'm passive aggressive when I tell them you're completely in your right to do with whatever you wish with the content I allowed you to choose to host in spite of the fact I even stated in the download pages what was ported.  Why allow that, but deny character models?  That's just silly.  Only people who are going to end up suffering are people who play and actually wanna make use of the content, till they find someone who shares it with them.

 

This entire conversation isn't about who wins or loose, I'm sure there is plenty of things we can learn provided people are willing to talk and read what others have to say on this.  But it's obvious no one really cares to do that, I guess, I honestly don't know.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Oobah

[Xycaleth]

I'm pretty sure discussions about ported content have come up before, with the consensus that:

 

1. Yes there is ported content on jkhub but the staff aren't going to go through every file to see if it's ported. If people request it to be taken down, then it will be checked out.

 

2. New submissions will be checked for ported content (and rejected if it does contain such content?)

 

3. Games come with end user license agreements saying that you should not do this, shouldn't do that, you can do this etc. Usually there's a clause saying that you must not distribute the contents of the game (more like, must not copy the game whether by electronic transmission or otherwise). So you could say that the person who made the model available is at fault.

 

But then there's also the issue of creating derivative works from copyrighted content. Yes modding communities will copy off of each other, taking bits from here and there, but I think people expect it to happen. It's the culture of modding you could say or an unspoken law, and that's why people then explicitly request that people don't copy/use their content.

 

Copying off companies is a bit different though. They usually explicitly deny assets from being copied, and even if they didn't, it's illegal to copy creative works unless permission is explicitly given (to do with derivative works etc) or if you fall under the fair use category. I doubt copying a model wholesale is fair use though personal use might come under fair use too? I'm not sure.

 

 

All that said, jkhub are just trying to cover their backs. Putting yourself in the staff of jkhub, would you rather be safe or take the risk of getting shut down and losing this great community?

 

I'm writing this on a phone and it's taken forever. So apologies if none of it makes sense

[Oobah]

I'm pretty sure discussions about ported content have come up before, with the consensus that:

 

1. Yes there is ported content on jkhub but the staff aren't going to go through every file to see if it's ported. If people request it to be taken down, then it will be checked out.

 

2. New submissions will be checked for ported content (and rejected if it does contain such content?)

 

3. Games come with end user license agreements saying that you should not do this, shouldn't do that, you can do this etc. Usually there's a clause saying that you must not distribute the contents of the game (more like, must not copy the game whether by electronic transmission or otherwise). So you could say that the person who made the model available is at fault.

 

But then there's also the issue of creating derivative works from copyrighted content. Yes modding communities will copy off of each other, taking bits from here and there, but I think people expect it to happen. It's the culture of modding you could say or an unspoken law, and that's why people then explicitly request that people don't copy/use their content.

 

Copying off companies is a bit different though. They usually explicitly deny assets from being copied, and even if they didn't, it's illegal to copy creative works unless permission is explicitly given (to do with derivative works etc) or if you fall under the fair use category. I doubt copying a model wholesale is fair use though personal use might come under fair use too? I'm not sure.

 

 

All that said, jkhub are just trying to cover their backs. Putting yourself in the staff of jkhub, would you rather be safe or take the risk of getting shut down and losing this great community?

 

I'm writing this on a phone and it's taken forever. So apologies if none of it makes sense

 

I don't think copying from companies should be any different.  We should be honest about what or were content came from.  Not saying if you ported from a game company have to go so crazy as to find a video game end credits and find specific names of who did 3d modeling and art assets, at least naming the company alone is enough.  With people we run into the same problem more or less.  Me, personally, I say edit whatever I personally put out because I honestly can't truly stop ANYONE from editing any file I put out.  Waste of energy telling people not to express whatever creative inspiration they may feel in regards to what I made/produce.  Even content I made/produce got inspiration from somewhere else.  I tell other people not to edit or dig into the guts of my work that would make me a hypocrite, that's how I started out editing any kind of game files for JA back in 06 or so.  Even the base models come from a company and that was made by someones hands as well.  Would they have honestly truly liked or hated me opening up my first reskin of kyle with nothing more than making the buttons on his belt a little more yellow in nothing more than MS paint?  I honestly will probably never know and that doesn't bother me in the least, it was like baby steps for me in that learning process.  I'm sure someone out there would find it adorable or cute.

 

It seems like porting and big long copywrite thing on a community/modding level is more like an honour amonst thieves (is none).  That sorta mindset and system breeds selfishness and self serving attitudes.  People were just honest who can really hold that against you?  Mean even posting a topic here someone might not like or wanna see/read you gotta know in some way in the back of your mind chance someone might report it or it might get locked regardless of how you word it or say it or put it or how nice and clean it may be.  Some regard I think people these days are very fickle and so easy to jump on the finger pointing game, I can be just as guilty of it at times but that's just me being an imperfect little turd.

 

Considering how much is out there that is ported these days, garry's mod even has steam workshops with ported content on it.  How is a community place with about maybe 300 active people going to get into larger legal trouble for content that isn't being distributed for monetary gain (outside of kotf)?  KOTF is still up and running so part of me feels like this might border on people wanting to feel like JA is a bigger than it really is, like you got this all powerful seeing eye come crashing down second anyone is out of line inspite of the fact with how small the game/community is these days and places/other games out there having more ported content I just don't fessibly see JK getting any sort of heat.  For me personally it always seemed to border more so people making money of it more than anything else.  Again, this is not meant to change the rules or anyones mindset.  I'm pointing out something that is obvious to me but I think in some way isn't as obvious to others.  Take that how you wish.

 

There was even a full fan recreation in the works for vampire the masquerade: bloodines using all original game assets and nothing ported or everything aka putting it on a more fixed and improved source engine, yet CCP still told them to take it down.  This does also show that people even at game companies like our own modding community can get very touchy on ANY kind of content alteration.

 

Even when I setup Massassi Temple I personally went to JEDI and showed them and the one of the first thing they posted was me using textures in the map from alzoc3 and I even told them I will be more than happy to give credit to the creator of the content/map or change it out if it is a big enough deal to them with a replacement.

 

I basically got as long as the specific person got credit for it, it was fine.

 

Also looking at the little liscense alone from the core game install this is what I've found in it.

 

 

 

Rules Governing New Levels:  "New Levels" are data that modify, add to, or

substitute for data in the Software, thus modifying, adding to, or replacing levels

provided by LucasArts in the Software, and may also include saved games, and

scenarios created using the skirmish features of the Software.  New Levels may be

permitted by LucasArts, in its sole discretion, on the following conditions.  You agree

that the following conditions apply to your creation of any New Levels:  

(1)     New Levels will work only with the retail version of the Software, and may not

work with any demo or Original Equipment Manufacturer (generally known as "OEM")

versions of the Software.  

(2)     New Levels may not modify any COM, EXE, DLL or other executable files.  

(3)     New Levels must not contain any illegal, scandalous, illicit, defamatory,

libelous, or objectionable material (as may be determined by LucasArts in its sole

discretion), or any material that infringes any trademarks, copyrights, protected works,

publicity, proprietary, or other rights of any third party or of LucasArts.  

(4)     New Levels may not include any LucasArts sound effects or music files or

portions thereof.  

(5)     New Levels must identify in every description file, on-line description,

read-me, and in comments in the New Level code (if new code is added): (a) the name,

address, and e-mail address of the level’s creators, and ( B) the following disclaimer:

"THIS LEVEL IS NOT MADE, DISTRIBUTED, OR SUPPORTED BY LUCASARTS, A DIVISION

OF LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD.  ELEMENTS TM & © LUCASARTS, A

DIVISION OF LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD."  

(6)     New Levels may not be sold, bartered, or distributed with any other product

for which any charge is made (other than incidental charges for time spent on-line), but

rather must be distributed free of charge at all times.

(7)     By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Levels, all creators or

owners of any trademark, copyright, or other right, title or interest therein grant to

LucasArts an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sublicensable right to distribute or

exploit the New Level by any means or media (whether now known or hereafter

invented), and to create and distribute by any means or media (whether now known or

hereafter invented) derivative works thereof, and to charge for the distribution of such

New Level or such derivative work, with no obligation to account to any creators or

owners of the New Level in any manner.

(8)     LucasArts may revoke your right or permission to use, distribute or make New

Levels at any time and in its sole discretion.

 

I don't see anything in there about ported models.  New levels you could kinda go onto other content aka ported content could get rolled into it but it doesn't say much else in depth about it.  I'm sure website out there and eula's etc etc, lot of legal jargin is to mostly cover the companies butts.  Websites take that on and create/setup there own to cover theres also.  I'm well aware of that end of things.  Problem and confusion comes into how we should interpret those things and finding a fine line is really difficult, sometimes it's easier to try and shush everyone up rather than try to address things.  Not to mention how to implement it also which when you have a community of folks you have a lot of different opinions and views, not going to be very clear cut.  Basically more in depth we go with it, more confusing it can become to really anyone.

 

Also looking at this topic

http://jkhub.org/topic/5472-request-model-sith-stalker/

 

@@DT85

I wasn't aware of the model being ported, I could be wrong on that matter though.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Point being is copywrite seems to more so rely on the physical media of data or whatever, something tangible.  Ideas and concepts are just in peoples imaginations and be a bit hard pressed to persue legal action on the grounds of your imagination came up with this idea before someone elses.  But what is truly tangible on quite literally 1's and 0's of data at the root of it.  Are we going to say specific combinations of the 1's and 0's are copywrite but the 1 and 0 alone are not able to be copywrite?  Still seems wishy washy and still seems as if it could open up new arguments and debates NO one wants to deal iwth.

 

Point for me on this is though some ported content gets through and this comes down to a few things:

-how regulated should content truly be (take forever fine tooth combing EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT uv maps, textures, googling, researching sources, etc, etc)

-what truly is not only ported but how far can we go to argue/debate a port

-does that tie souly into the core content itself and this leads into also

-what about modifications/heavy modifcations of said content into the game as well.  What truly constitutes a port aka something bad vs. something we might say is creative or worth putting a download link of up?

 

Seems like an honour system even for file creations/uploads but the problem here is if some people and even some files on here are from ported sources, what is the integraty and honour of those that approve/upload that content.  I think it's safe to say people who port content are probably well aware of it so this again ties into, people should just be honest if the content is ported or not.  Whatever ported content is, not sure of how much truly is cause I don't have the energy to look at every single file, truly even on here should we literally just purge it all, even if it is something as simple as a sound file?  Or a possible texture, or even a literally pen sized mesh on a map?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Oobah

[minilogoguy18]

 

I started on these for people who either didn't know how to get their own model in game or wanted to port a model from a game THEY ALREADY OWN to Jedi Academy, not finished but all the hard stuff is outlined. From there hierarchy and compiling are the only things left to do which are easy and can be figured out through google or another programs short tutorial.

 

Maybe one day I'll get back to these but there hasn't been any interest in them in a long time it seems.