Porting Discussion

[CrimsonStrife]

@@CrimsonStrife: your point #2 is wrong. Just because a game is "approved for modding" doesn't make it okay to distribute the game assets elsewhere/port them. See: the JK2/A EULAs, which still prohibit this but make a special case for making mods. Which is now actually invalid due to the source code being released.

 

I only referred specifically to the action of porting between JK2 and JKA, and that there "shouldn't" be an issue, and logically there wouldn't be as it all belongs to the same people.  But this only supports the point to read the EULA to anything you're planning to port to or from.

[eezstreet]

He means between those two games. Like porting from JK2 to JKA and vice versa.

Which is still wrong. You aren't allowed to port all of the assets from JK2 and make it work in JKA, for instance. No company in their right mind would permit for that.

[CrimsonStrife]

Which is still wrong. You aren't allowed to port all of the assets from JK2 and make it work in JKA, for instance. No company in their right mind would permit for that.

 

There also may have been a mistranslation from the steam chat to the shortened "points".

 

 

CrimsonStrife: but porting is kind of the same issue, you would have to check every title's EULA, but I am pretty sure moving content from one game to another would count as a redistribution of assets outside of general user use, and therefore while not "illegal" per se, WOULD be a violation of the EULA, which you are agreeing to simply by owning and playing said games

[eezstreet]

so when does the poll start exactly

[Link]

well right, he wants to implement a flagging system. I have nothing against that, it's an alright idea. I'm just wondering if he considers ported models differently than ported sounds.

 

Nope, that's why I kept trying to say "illegal ported content" rather than "ported models" if we receive a complaint against a file, and it has evidence backing it then it should be taken down. We can't be expected to examine every inch of a file to see if it contains illegal content, but we always try our best.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

It depends on who owns the sounds/content. If you rip from a KotOR game it probably belongs to BioWare or EA. If you rip from JK2, it probably belongs to Raven or Activision.

All of this is assuming you're using content specific to that game, and not shared sounds such as what's used by droids and whatnot. Those probably belong to Disney/Lucasarts/Lucasfilm.

It's messy.

But I generally wouldn't worry about it unless you're doing just a straight sound-replacement mod.

I find myself agreeing with you on that one Eez. Sound replacement mods may be more trickier to host. Possible, but just harder to avoid lawsuits and other bs :/.

[ChalklYne]

So why do they put star wars soundboards on starwars.com if you can get in trouble for using them for your free projects?

 

So I am to understand if you take these sounds, and make a windows sound scheme, and upload it for free downloads, you are potentially getting in trouble?

 

What about things like this?

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/102868/star-wars-the-old-republic-theme-for-windows-7/

Bring the excitement of the battle between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire to your desktop with the ‘Star Wars – The Old Republic’ Theme for Windows 7. The theme comes with 38 Hi-Res wallpapers, custom Star Wars icons, and sound clips for your system

[CrimsonStrife]

So why do they put star wars soundboards on starwars.com if you can get in trouble for using them for your free projects?

 

Thing is, I see no where on the site that is says you can use them for that.

[ChalklYne]

Hmmm... let's say I make a tfu mod. with just base sounds. Then provide an external link to a different hosting site of a pk3 with starkiller and proxy sounds? XD At least the Hub's ass is covered then correct?

[CrimsonStrife]

 

So I am to understand if you take these sounds, and make a windows sound scheme, and upload it for free downloads, you are potentially getting in trouble?

 

What about things like this?

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/102868/star-wars-the-old-republic-theme-for-windows-7/

Bring the excitement of the battle between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire to your desktop with the ‘Star Wars – The Old Republic’ Theme for Windows 7. The theme comes with 38 Hi-Res wallpapers, custom Star Wars icons, and sound clips for your system

 

Technically? Well, the wallpapers obviously would have been distributed for anyone to use on their systems by the respective companies, as you can get those same ones off the SWTOR site.  But I know that the sounds didn't come from there, so they were either pulled from the game or another one and redistributed (which I'm sure breaks it's EULA, as it usually will), or they are movie sounds and the like, or from that sound board, which are covered by copyrights, but in the case of that sound board there isn't anything saying what you can do with it (but I also notice a distinct lack of a "download" feature, which has me inclined to think you aren't supposed to do that).  Some would say that since they don't appear to say you CAN'T, then that means you CAN, but that's kinda the same as claiming that shoplifting is only illegal if you're caught.

 

The fact of the matter is, anytime you use and distribute someone else's copyrighted IP, even under completely hand made stuff (I.E. a wallpaper YOU made from a drawing YOU made, but it is of say, Boba Fett), you are still using a copyrighted IP. Which means, you could be sued, though that likely wouldn't be the first step taken anyway, it would probably be a cease and desist order.  Because Boba Fett would be the IP used, and just the "intellectual" form of Boba Fett is owned by Disney or whomever.

Now, how likely is someone to pursue that? Well in the case of a big corporate entity, not likely so long as you are not either profiting or competing with something THEY are trying to release.  But they own the IP, so they have the legal right to do that.

 

Copyrights are a heartless bitch, because when it comes down to something big, and multimedia, like Star Wars. Everything is going to be copyrighted, but it isn't just going to be copyrighted under a blanket set of rules.  Character names can be copyrighted one way, while the character designs can be another, and even phrases, terms and dialog can have certain rules.  Then the branding as a whole is copyrighted a certain way. So everything has limits to where and how it can be used, and they won't all be the same.

So essentially, anytime you're making anything Star Wars (even an original character or storyline), and you use the Star Wars branding, then you are putting yourself at a risk.

 

Now somethings fall under fair-use, but these are often super-vaguely defined, and even straying slightly from what they say is fair-use can land you in a stink.

 

Now, how hard would they pursue any of that? Well again, it would really come down to money and how it affects them.

 

So, would you get in trouble? Very doubtful.  But can you? Yes, probably.

[minilogoguy18]

I think it's just as simple as you can port all you want, just don't redistribute assets. If you own 2 games and want to take assets from one and put them in another I don't see how anyone could do anything about it considering you own BOTH games, again just don't redistribute assets.

 

The main people that seem to be whining about it are the ones that are new to all this and maybe trying to make a name for themselves by submitting ported content with their name on it to get themselves out there in the community which is the totally wrong way to do it. They may say that porting content and putting their name on it isn't them trying to boost themselves up but if it weren't they wouldn't be getting so butt hurt about the files being taken down.

 

I could care less where this goes since like I said, if I port anything I keep it to myself, anything that I have submitted was something I either made or had a part in making and all other involved parties gave me the green light to submit the work in which case I gave them the credit they deserved. This entire thing wont affect me either way, I don't even use ports that people have submitted mostly because the person who ported it did a terrible job on the envelope weights.

 

Well I lied I guess since I do need sounds for Kain, I own all of the games in the series so doing it is no problem but redistributing it here might, whoever wanted the sounds may just have to make them using their own copies of the games.

[eezstreet]

minlogoguy18: only if JKHub says "NO PORTS PLZ" like their current policy is. I see no difference between sounds/models personally, but that's just me.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

minlogoguy18: only if JKHub says "NO PORTS PLZ" like their current policy is. I see no difference between sounds/models personally, but that's just me.

Sounds might actually be different, Eez. HOWEVER, that's what I think. I'm guessing that the bigger concern is ported models getting distributed, as sounds have been done all the time. Again, this is just what I think.

[eezstreet]

Sounds might actually be different, Eez. HOWEVER, that's what I think. I'm guessing that the bigger concern is ported models getting distributed, as sounds have been done all the time. Again, this is just what I think.

How are they different? Someone still paid a lot of money for someone to make them, after all. I'm curious as to the logic behind that.

[TheWhitePhoenix]

How are they different? Someone still paid a lot of money for someone to make them, after all. I'm curious as to the logic behind that.

Like I said, It's just what I think. Not trying to argue with you.

[eezstreet]

Anyway, is a moderator going to make a poll?

[TheWhitePhoenix]

Anyway, is a moderator going to make a poll?

I'm wondering that too. But then again, people do have lives outside of here. Real life can suck sometimes....:/

[Link]

We're trying to organize a little staff meeting before we go any further, this should hopefully be done by tomorrow afternoon

 

I realize you have made a lot of points over the past 8 pages Eez, is it possible you could sum up your proposed changes that you've been referring to in bullet point form so we can discuss it easier. If any one else wishes to do the same then by all means go for it

[eezstreet]

- Wholly ported content (e.g. a ported model with its original sounds + textures) is not allowed.

 

- Semi-ported content (ported model with new textures; original model with ported sounds, etc) is allowed.

 

 

(I really do hate having to repeat what I'm saying, I've said this at least 3 times in this same thread)

[ent]

Hi. I am not sure I understand laws correctly, but I feel like the problem is invented here from nothing.

 

Let's look on another area where you can share mods and stuff: Steam Workshop. I don't know every game that uses the workshop, but know only Left 4 Dead 2's one and used some items from there. Let's open it [http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=550] and see what we have: Kairi from kh2 which looks exactly the same as in the original game; music from The Walking Dead; main characters from Resident Evil 6 which looks exactly the same. And it's only few examples that I just faced to.

 

Steam is like legal area, yes? So they should not spread illegal content etc. If we can see such mods on Steam Workshop which are ported from different domains/places/areas/communities (idk how to call it in English), then why would such small place as JKHub had problems with the content too? It looks like some people who saw banning content on other sites with some given "correct" explanation, now think it works for everything else.

 

In my opinion you can share anything from different places, and ignore people who try to make problems and don't actually know what they are talking about. Sorry for repeating but this is important: if Steam lets people port and use content from different places then there is definitely no problem on JKHub.

[eezstreet]

Again: just because other people break the law doesn't mean we should too.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that Steam does almost no content checking prior to stuff being put up. Steam is simply too big to allow for that sorta content checking.

 

I suspect that a clause stating that the legal responsibility of files belongs to the uploader might suffice though.

[RAILBACK]

I never thought this topic would go on after my comments in the last thread. I feel pretty strong about this subject as well. And I agree we should abide by the site rules no matter what. They are there for a reason. I'm NOT concerned about any company taking some sort of silly legal action against the public for porting. Reason? Far as I'm aware, no one is making money off of porting. That's really the bottom line isn't it? Or are we worried we're offending people by porting? As far as my files go, even though I put days/weeks/months of work into my material, port away sir. Or is that Starboard?

 

My other thought is: The origins of Star Wars come from G.L. So if I make a file from scratch and made my own Star Wars sounds and music so that absolutely nothing is borrowed from anyone or anything then I guess I have no worries. YES, I know this is about porting something specific. I'm talking about expanding on already great ideas. If we couldn't get ahold of Star Wars sounds and music we would have to make our own. Its already a time consuming task to mod in itself. Someone originally had an idea and that idea has been expanded upon. The only ones making money are the companies that have permission to do so.

 

Have I made a point or am I way off here?

[eezstreet]

I'm too tired to think right now, but you have a point. Nobody is really gaining (or losing) money by doing this. However it's more about the principle than anything.

[Merek]

I bet you @@Circa 10-1 they gave us the tools to mod because they were to lazy to finish the game. JKO was completed, JKA wasn't. The jetpack animations were screwed up in sp and mp. We need a fix for that is compatible with good ol' @@Raz0r's JA++ Client.

[eezstreet]

I bet you @@Circa 10-1 they gave us the tools to mod because they were to lazy to finish the game. JKO was completed, JKA wasn't. The jetpack animations were screwed up in sp and mp. We need a fix for that is compatible with good ol' @@Raz0r's JA++ Client.

Doesn't even make any sense because JK2 had an SDK too.

 

You owe me $10.