Evolution of Combat IV - Main Topic

[Darth Sion]

If you follow our ModDB posts you'll know what's been going on - there has been some bad weather in the UK recently and Serenity has been flooded a number of times which means obviously EoC isn't exactly his priority right now, I still haven't even been able to speak with him yet.

Sorry for the delays.

Thanks! If you like the style of the MP menus I'll look at using that in SP for future updates. Will take some time though, there are a lot of SP menus to go through.

I can confirm this. I live in the UK and certain areas have been devastated with flooding, just recently. It's caused so much chaos and unrest, not to mention it's forced people to move out of their homes and live elsewhere, in case of future and further flooding, so I can appreciate Serenity's stance on this, at the current time.

[Xycaleth]

What about source code? He's required to release it if requested (as his code is derived from the JKA code released by Raven whose license requires this) but my feeling is he has always evaded the question when asked.

[Darth Sion]

What about source code? He's required to release it if requested (as his code is derived from the JKA code released by Raven whose license requires this) but my feeling is he has always evaded the question when asked.

You're not an admin of the site, so you've got no authority here.. Unless you have a model in the mod that he's using without your permission. Then, only then, do you have any authority.

[Xycaleth]

I agree, the authority isn't mine but it is Raven's. The JKA source code was released by Raven under the GNU GPLv2 license, which states that any derivative works must also be licensed under the same license. Said license states that the source code must be made available upon request (though most people just make the code publicly accessible).

[Darth Sion]

I agree, the authority isn't mine but it is Raven's. The JKA source code was released by Raven under the GNU GPLv2 license, which states that any derivative works must also be licensed under the same license. Said license states that the source code must be made available upon request (though most people just make the code publicly accessible).

Technically.. You're wrong, again. It's not even Raven's now, as on April 3, 2013 following the closure of LucasArts, Raven Software released the source codes for Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast and Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy on Sourceforge.

[Xycaleth]

That's what I'm referring to. The source code was released under the license I mentioned This is a clone of the source code repository, with the original license in-tact: https://github.com/jedis/jediacademy/ The README file explicitly says (emphasis is mine):

Activision and Raven are releasing this code for people to learn from and play with.

This code is copyright Activision 2003. This source is released under GNU GPLv2.

Releasing code to the public does not necessarily mean the author's ownership is relinquished.

[eezstreet]

You're not an admin of the site, so you've got no authority here.. Unless you have a model in the mod that he's using without your permission. Then, only then, do you have any authority.

 

And what gives you the authority to talk down to him? We're all equals in this community.

 

 

Technically.. You're wrong, again. It's not even Raven's now, as on April 3, 2013 following the closure of LucasArts, Raven Software released the source codes for Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast and Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy on Sourceforge.

It's still their source code and therefore they can enforce whatever license they want.

[redsaurus]

A partial version of the source code of an earlier version was put up by Serenity ( http://www.moddb.com/mods/serenitysabersystems/addons/serenityjedienginesdk ) so I suppose there might be a code release at some point. 

[Futuza]

@, see section 3, quoted below for your convenience.

 

 

3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

  a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,   b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,   c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)

[Darth Sion]

And what gives you the authority to talk down to him? We're all equals in this community.

 

  It's still their source code and therefore they can enforce whatever license they want.

 

Equals, huh? Well, I don't see a title under his name that says "JKHub Admin".. I'm not saying I do, either. But I'm just making a clear and valid point.

 

And since when are Raven going to prosecute anyone using their source code. They have nothing to do with the Star Wars community now and have long since finished their affiliation with it. I can assure you that if they were that worried or upset about someone using their source code, then they'd have filed reports and injunctions against those that have done so. And even saying that, nobody is trying to make any profit from selling their source code. But I doubt they'd even notice or take any interest, if they did.

[Futuza]

 

 

Equals, huh? Well, I don't see a title under his name that says "JKHub Admin".. I'm not saying I do, either. But I'm just making a clear and valid point.

 

And since when are Raven going to prosecute anyone using their source code. They have nothing to do with the Star Wars community now and have long since finished their affiliation with it. I can assure you that if they were that worried or upset about someone using their source code, then they'd have filed reports and injunctions against those that have done so. And even saying that, nobody is trying to make any profit from selling their source code. But I doubt they'd even notice or take any interest, if they did.

 

Yeah, but it certainly rubs everyone else in this community the wrong way when someone refuses to make their source code available when it is legally required to do so.  And I don't think any of us want that.

[eezstreet]

Equals, huh? Well, I don't see a title under his name that says "JKHub Admin".. I'm not saying I do, either. But I'm just making a clear and valid point.

And since when are Raven going to prosecute anyone using their source code. They have nothing to do with the Star Wars community now and have long since finished their affiliation with it. I can assure you that if they were that worried or upset about someone using their source code, then they'd have filed reports and injunctions against those that have done so. And even saying that, nobody is trying to make any profit from selling their source code. But I doubt they'd even notice or take any interest, if they did.

I guess if everyone wasn't equal in this community, I'd be top dog. And as top dog, I say play nice. You literally have no idea what you're talking about; the person you're belittling is probably the most skilled programmer on this entire forum and does it for a living.

 

However, I think speculating on the code is a bit meaningless. Has anyone cracked open the executables in IDA or something to see if they're Raven-based, or if they're based on OpenJK? Does he use jasp.exe or a custom exe?

[Xycaleth]

And even saying that, nobody is trying to make any profit from selling their source code. But I doubt they'd even notice or take any interest, if they did.

Licenses aren't always about preventing people from making money. In this case, the GPLv2 license is about ensuring that the source code remains freely available (free as in speech, not free as in free beer).

[Xycaleth]

Yeah the (full) source needs to be released, or he at least needs to make it available to whomever requests it.

[Clan FJA]

Any news ? Seems there were several updates http://www.moddb.com/mods/evolution-of-combat-iv

[JaceSolaris]

I've been reading this topic,and if I was Serenity, I wouldn't post here either.If you want to talk to him.Look for his UK server.Its the only place to actually talk to him. 

[Clan FJA]

I've been reading this topic,and if I was Serenity, I wouldn't post here either.

 

Why ?

[eezstreet]

Why ?

Dunno, but there's still stuff that's blatantly ripped from other mods in that news update (the ESC menu uses the same image as JKG's, and the About menu uses fonts from MB2).

[Clan FJA]

I will poke MattFiler, he should be able to tell us more:

 

poke @@MattFiler

 

Since Serenity is releasing new updates, his computer and flooding problems should be solved.

[Clan FJA]

Dunno, but there's still stuff that's blatantly ripped from other mods in that news update (the ESC menu uses the same image as JKG's, and the About menu uses fonts from MB2).

 

I did not downloaded the mod so I can't say, but :

- does he give credits to a large part of authors, and he simply forgot to put some readme files

or

- does he give no credit at all (no readme files of the original mods at all) ?

[eezstreet]

Both. Some stuff was not credited, some was. You should read this entire thread for more context.

[Noodle]

Both. Some stuff was not credited, some was. You should read this entire thread for more context.

 

Then maybe it wasn't done out of malice, but ignorance? It's not like in KOTF, were all assets were stolen and no credit was given at all.

[Lancelot]

(...) It's not like in KOTF (...)

I'll be happy when nobody would mention that horrible "mod" again. It has caused many wounds to the community that just won't heal. I'm even going so far not to mention it anymore.

 

 

Regarding EoC IV, I have no actual opinion at all. I'm pretty neutral with it. We can only presume what's really going, but we shouldn't accuse anyone here. We should wait until we get an official statement

of Serenity himself. It might take some time, but better late than never.

[MattFiler]

poke @@MattFiler

Hello! I'll go through and quickly respond to a few points.

 

 

 

there's still stuff that's blatantly ripped from other mods in that news update (the ESC menu uses the same image as JKG's, and the About menu uses fonts from MB2).

I've modified all the menus from the original release of EoCIV. Not sure exactly what you think is wrong in them. Are you talking about MP or SP?

 

 

- does he give credits to a large part of authors, and he simply forgot to put some readme files

or

- does he give no credit at all (no readme files of the original mods at all) ?

I worked my way through a lot of the authors of the character models and everyone I managed to contact was alright with us using their work as long as we referenced them, which we have already done.

You can find the readme files for EoCIV character models in the 9th PK3 file (models folder).

 

 

We can only presume what's really going, but we shouldn't accuse anyone here. We should wait until we get an official statement

of Serenity himself. It might take some time, but better late than never.

I've spoken to Serenity a lot about the issues raised on this thread and he has assured me that he has referenced the models he has used in that 9th PK3, created all other content himself, and only used files from something else on the character selection screen where he used the KOTF menu as a template.

He has said he will not comment on this thread because of how everyone simply seems to be throwing hate at the mod without even having any real proof as of yet that there is stolen content being used here. That's also why I've held off commenting, but there seems to of been a lot of questions building up so I thought I'd reply.

 

 

Yeah the (full) source needs to be released, or he at least needs to make it available to whomever requests it.

The source code for EoC can be found in the SerenityJediEngineSDK that Serenity released in 2014. He has said that the download covers the legal requirements for release of the source code for EoCIV.

[JAWSFreelao]

He has said he will not comment on this thread because of how everyone simply seems to be throwing hate at the mod without even having any real proof as of yet that there is stolen content being used here. That's also why I've held off commenting.

Does anyone have any proof?

Also. Not commenting makes it look worse from an outside standpoint. I personally don't give a shit but some people do so I mean. Running away doesn't exactly make it better..