Star Wars: Rogue One

[Cerez]

And Earth is flat because I'd like it to be flat. Established facts are not arguable. If you think they are, you are wrong.

 

And the world would never have found out that the Earth isn't flat, had Christopher Columbus not defied everyone else's thinking and took his own approach to seek adventure and find new discoveries. Boldness in imagination followed by a strong conviction pays off, more often than not. Visions connected to our beliefs cannot be delusions.

 

There are two realms: the creator's world that an artwork presents, and the world that we create around the artwork as we experience it. The latter is more important to us than the former, as this is the reality we are living -- this is what connects us to the artwork.

 

Therefore, whether we like it or not, our own imagination always plays a part in experiencing a movie (or any other form of artwork). We are always interpreting, adapting what we like, and rejecting what we don't like. Creating fantastical details that might not have been intended by the creator(s) at all. If we didn't, every movie would feel more or less the same, and none of these stories would feel truly connected to us. So I say let there be boldness of imagination! Let's not eat every spoon of bitterness that is fed to us, but live free of restraint.

 

Parallel or alternative storylines? Why not? Different interpretations of same events? Sure. It all depends on your point of view.

[hleV]

Rogue One is canon and most likely retcons Dark Forces, that's all there is to it. You can like whatever you want, but you can't change the fact that something is canon and something is not by simply prefering something more to another. The two posts above mine are absolute bullcrap and prove nothing. "There is philosophy and shit." The fuck do I care? There are established facts. Deal with it.

[Ping]

People like to headcanon. No need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

[Archangel35757]

They wrote Dark Forces as a book (following the game storyline) also didn't they?

[eezstreet]

For what it's worth, Abrams has always wanted to do Star Wars movies, and he considered the Star Trek movies his tryout for Star Wars. So I think if anyone is capable/willing to do the series justice, it's him.

I've never quite understood the hate specifically towards Disney. Everyone thinks they'll do a terrible job with the franchise, but I think that's weird considering that Lucas always wanted Disney to hold the movie license and had to settle with Fox. And frankly, anything could be doing a better job than Lucasfilm did with the prequels and LucasArts was doing with the Star Wars games as of late. TFU felt like a bland inFAMOUS clone (and inFAMOUS felt bland anyway, so that's pretty horrible). 1313 seemed interesting but the development horror stories that followed from it make me almost glad it didn't get made.

[Onysfx]

For what it's worth, Abrams has always wanted to do Star Wars movies, and he considered the Star Trek movies his tryout for Star Wars. So I think if anyone is capable/willing to do the series justice, it's him.

I've never quite understood the hate specifically towards Disney. Everyone thinks they'll do a terrible job with the franchise, but I think that's weird considering that Lucas always wanted Disney to hold the movie license and had to settle with Fox. And frankly, anything could be doing a better job than Lucasfilm did with the prequels and LucasArts was doing with the Star Wars games as of late. TFU felt like a bland inFAMOUS clone (and inFAMOUS felt bland anyway, so that's pretty horrible). 1313 seemed interesting but the development horror stories that followed from it make me almost glad it didn't get made.

J.J Abrams did a pretty good job on Cloverfield and Fringe, and despite not being a big fan of star trek, he still did a great reboot (even if star trek critics were disappointed). He loves star wars so much, and I think he is the perfect guy for the job. Some guy on MBII I talked to said JJ Abrams will screw it up. I asked him who should direct it instead, and he said Christopher Nolan.... :/.

 

EDIT: So many haters these days, it's just nearly impossible to fight them all off.

[z3filus]

Cloverfield is the worst movie I ever bought. Eventhouhg it was cheap. I still lost money. But still JJ is the perfect dude for this movie.
I hope to never see Christopher Nolan's name on any StarWars DVD / BluRay cover. I hate that guy and Christian Bale(out) for ruining Batman.

[Cerez]

Rogue One is canon and most likely retcons Dark Forces, that's all there is to it. You can like whatever you want, but you can't change the fact that something is canon and something is not by simply prefering something more to another. The two posts above mine are absolute bullcrap and prove nothing. "There is philosophy and shit." The fuck do I care? There are established facts. Deal with it.

 

That's a little harsh, @@hleV, but you're entitled to your point of view, naturally. My perspective is quite different.

 

I agree with Cloverfield being a terrible movie. But each to their own -- there are those who will love it. Like I said, it all depends on your point of view. You create your own world with who you are, your past experiences, and your interpretation of the artwork.

 

@@eezstreet makes a good point in that as of late Star Wars hasn't been at its shine with most of its stories published, and Disney couldn't do much worse than that even if they tried. I think we should expect to see a fun-filled and lighthearted, new Star Wars adventure that will be different to the original saga, but entertaining nonetheless. It will still be Star Wars, rest assured. It may not match up to the original saga, but it will very likely be better than the prequels -- so we won't be too disappointed.

[Ping]

You are only entitled to your point of view if it is reasonable.

[Kessno]

I think we should expect to see a fun-filled and lighthearted, new Star Wars adventure...

 

I'm not sure about fun-filled and lighthearted.

 

At least EP7 might have some lighthearted moments, but I am almost certain that it will be a darker film than what was portrayed in the opening of the prequels. I believe that the director of "Star Wars: Rogue One" has already stated that this film in particular will be much darker than some of the events in the new trilogy.

[hleV]

@@Cerez, 

yet another post where you write worthless crap such as "things are not necessarily the way you see" without anything to back it up. Things aren't like that because I see them that way, things are that way because there are facts to prove it. You can create your own imaginary worlds as much as you like but don't try to push your own opinion, which conflicts with established facts, as a possibility, because it is not. It only becomes true if someone with the rights to Star Wars comes and says so, effectively retconning what's already established.

[Cerez]

I'm not trying to push anything onto anyone, @@hleV. I am simply stating my point of view. I'm entitled to that as much as you are, don't you think? You don't have to agree with me, but I am still allowed to speak my mind, aren't I?

 

I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say, or the way I say it...

[hleV]

And I'm pointing out that your point of view is invalid.

 

You're trying to push the idea that "everything depends on your point of view" which is incorrect. Nothing depends on it if it outright contradicts the established facts and you live in your own ilusionary world.

[Cerez]

It's not illusionary or lonely if it's within the path of the old canon. There are many other people who believe a similar story, too.

 

But have it your way, @@hleV. I'm not going to argue this anymore. If you believe "fact are facts", and anyone who thinks otherwise is having "delusions", so be it.

[Ping]

The point of engaging SW media is having fun. If what it takes for people to have fun is to have an unorthodox take on the media, then why not? Suspension of disbelief works the same way.

[hleV]

It's not illusionary or lonely if it's within the path of the old canon. There are many other people who believe a similar story, too.

It is not for you or "many other people" to decide what "truly happened" in Star Wars continuity.

 

If facts aren't facts, then what the fuck are they?

[z3filus]

I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say, or the way I say it...

kind of stepped on your own nuts there, because a lot of your comments are as hleV said:  "things are not necessarily the way you see them"

[Cerez]

I'm sorry, what exactly are we arguing about here? Because this debate is starting to feel like complete bollocks to me...
 
What is named "facts" here is the work and imagination of hundreds of creative individuals who have expanded upon and to this day continue to create what we know as the Star Wars universe. Some of this content is preserved, other things are thrown away at random intervals at the whim of businessman and executives in order to give pro-longed life to future Star Wars branded stories and products. What's called "fact" and "canon" today may be a part of history (and therefore non-canon, and non-existent) tomorrow. But does that make it any less real in our hearts? Do the stories we have experienced now mean nothing? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

And so Kyle Katarn's story would now be completely gone? Just because some executives decided it will be so? You cannot just wipe people's memories and experiences away. That's why fan communities band all over the Internet to preserve what they value. No outside influence has control over that.

 

I really don't understand the point you are so strongly trying to make here, @@hleV...

 

Edit: Perhaps instead of attacking me personally, you would care to explain your point of view in more detail?

[Ping]

His point is that the only people who get to decide what is canon are the people in charge of the license. I cannot see how it is reasonable to argue against that. However, I did drop the hint that engaging entertainment reasonably might be against the point of entertainment.

[hleV]

What is named "facts" here is the work and imagination of hundreds of creative individuals who have expanded upon and to this day continue to create what we know as the Star Wars universe. Some of this content is preserved, other things are thrown away at random intervals at the whim of businessman and executives in order to give pro-longed life to future Star Wars branded stories and products. 

Makes no difference when establishing what's canon and what's not.

 

What's called "fact" and "canon" today may be a part of history (and therefore non-canon, and non-existent) tomorrow. 

Not sure what you mean by non-existent, but regarding non-canon, yes, and you cannot do anything about it.

 

But does that make it any less real in our hearts? Do the stories we have experienced now mean nothing? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

And so Kyle Katarn's story would now be completely gone? Just because some executives decided it will be so? You cannot just wipe people's memories and experiences away. That's why fan communities band all over the Internet to preserve what they value. No outside influence has control over that.

As far as Star Wars actual continuity is concerned, those stories are gone. Feel free to keep them in your imaginary world (not saying that in a bad sense), but don't try to push them into what truly happened in Star Wars. I like DF/JK/KOTOR, but I won't claim that they're part of the continuity just because I'd like them to be.

[Ping]

I think the only person who is trying to push anything here is you.

[z3filus]

hleV is harsh and Cerez is having a hard time accepting it. 


lol

[Ping]

Given that his harshness is entirely unjustified and he's just being an ass for the sake of being it, I think it's a good thing that people are having a hard time accepting it. I'd like to see more of that, actually.

[Circa]

Enough. Can't talk about anything around here without people getting so bent out of shape.

[Ping]

So why is Dark Forces relevant to Rogue One? I haven't played any of the DF games yet, but they seem to be special in some regard and I'd like to know more. Don't really care about spoilers.