Star Wars: Rogue One

[Cerez]

There's a good chance they may be better than the prequels, at least the feature movies (like The Force Awakens), but I am certain we will never have the direction that the original trilogy has given again. That would take a lot more than today's Hollywood to produce. And Disney is not about quality movies these days, either. It's certainly not like in the days Walt Disney had started it. Still, I bet it will be fun, regardless -- until we get sick of the new formula...

[Botdra]

There's a good chance they may be better than the prequels, at least the feature movies (like The Force Awakens), but I am certain we will never have the direction that the original trilogy has given again. That would take a lot more than today's Hollywood to produce. And Disney is not about quality movies these days, either. It's certainly not like in the days Walt Disney had started it. Still, I bet it will be fun, regardless -- until we get sick of the new formula...

I suspect it's on JJ Abrams shoulders more than Disney's. All I ask is that it isn't filled with the Hollywood cliche blockbuster shots, lighting, etc. so I can actually enjoy it as a Star Wars film and not as another Hollywood blockbuster with a Star Wars theme.

[Cerez]

As long as the story is good, I think we will be able to forgive any fancy Hollywood makeup -- as long as it doesn't get in the way of a good story. So far Abrams has not disappointed with his choice of scripts, so there's hope that the new main features will hold up with the prequels. I'm not sure about Rogue One. Has it been announced who will direct it?

[Botdra]

True, but Abrams is directing an iconic installment in a saga he has had no part in until now. It's a daunting task. Sure he's made great movies, but that doesn't mean he can pull off a Star Wars movie. That being said, I do think he thoroughly understands the responsibility on his shoulders and I think he will make a fantastic film, but a fantastic film doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a fantastic Star Wars installment.

Fingers crossed. I think he knows what he's doing, but the trailer scared me off a bit to be honest. I haven't lost faith in him though! He's a smart guy.

I'd like to see them bring in someone new for Rogue One. I think that would be a good place for Disney to experiment a bit more now that they've taken over the franchise. It would be a good time for them to try and find their footing in such a monolithic IP.

[Cerez]

True, but Abrams is directing an iconic installment in a saga he has had no part in until now. It's a daunting task. Sure he's made great movies, but that doesn't mean he can pull off a Star Wars movie. That being said, I do think he thoroughly understands the responsibility on his shoulders and I think he will make a fantastic film, but a fantastic film doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a fantastic Star Wars installment.

 

Well, if you ask me he didn't do too badly with Star Trek. He does understand how sci-fi and suspense works. My gripe is actually with his shallow characterisation, but a lot of that depends on the script writer(s), I guess. So far he hasn't left much time for character development in his movies. He seems to be more focused on storytelling through action, which basically follows along the same lines as the prequel movies. I felt this particularly strong in Star Trek, since in the stories of Star Trek the characters and personal conflicts have always been an integral part of the experience, and not so in his new movie (although I haven't seen Into Darkness).

[Botdra]

I think Star Trek was fantastic. But it wasn't Star Wars, meaning it wasn't the 7th installment in an iconic saga. It was a self-contained reboot. And that movie was Hollywood as hell, which worked for it I think, but wouldn't work for Star Wars, in my opinion. Star Wars isn't known for it's character development either really, which is fine by me, it's still great.

[Cerez]

Star Wars isn't known for it's character development either really, which is fine by me, it's still great.

 

Hm... I actually disagree with that. The original trilogy movies had great character development, as well as storytelling, which is what makes them stand out from the prequels so much, and some of The Clone Wars (2008) TV series has also managed to re-capture that, especially towards the end -- which is why I love it so much.

 

I would expect something similar to the Star Trek reboot with the new Star Wars movies, as well. It'll be good Hollywood fun, but I'm not sure if it will stand the test of time as the original saga did.

[Botdra]

Hm... I actually disagree with that. The original trilogy movies had great character development, as well as storytelling, which is what makes them stand out from the prequels so much, and some of The Clone Wars (2008) TV series has also managed to re-capture that, especially towards the end -- which is why I love it so much.

 

I would expect something similar to the Star Trek reboot with the new Star Wars movies, as well. It'll be good Hollywood fun, but I'm not sure if it will stand the test of time as the original saga did.

Yeah, I'm just talking about the movies, not other content. The characters did change because of events, but it was never about the characters, it was about the story. Characters did change and grow to a certain extent, but I never felt Star Wars was about the characters.

[hleV]

Then what the fuck was it about? Blowing up Death Stars?

[Cerez]

Yeah, I'm just talking about the movies, not other content. The characters did change because of events, but it was never about the characters, it was about the story. Characters did change and grow to a certain extent, but I never felt Star Wars was about the characters.

 

What about Luke's story? It was specifically about him and his relationship with his father, the villain of the story. That's as clear a character driven story arc as you can get. I agree that the prequel movies had very little character drive, and that they still provided action-based fun, regardless, but The Clone Wars series has added character driven stories back into the equation. We got to know all the character we just glanced a glimpse at in the prequel movies -- and who all died on us in the movies very soon after. And that felt so much richer -- at least to me...

 

Then what the fuck was it about? Blowing up Death Stars?

 

[Tempust85]

If they remove Kyle Katarn in any way, I'll prolly dump DF2 mod. :/

[Jeff]

If they remove Kyle Katarn in any way, I'll prolly dump DF2 mod. :/

 

Then get ready to dump

[Botdra]

I think the fact that the prequels still felt like Star Wars films goes to show that it's not about the characters. Yes Luke's storyline was essential in the original trilogy, and Anakin's story was essential in the prequels, but you try writing a story without a main character. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all the characters thoroughly, I just don't think it's been as much about the characters as it has been the story and the universe. Their stories are important, their growth as people outside of that? Not so much.

[Tempust85]

Then get ready to dump

 

You're joking.....right?

[Cerez]

Then you'll thoroughly enjoy the new Star Wars movies, I'm sure, @@Botdra. They'll be good enough to match the fun in the prequels. The producers will make sure of that. Otherwise they would not sell.

 

If they remove Kyle Katarn in any way, I'll prolly dump DF2 mod. :/

 

I sure hope they won't be removing any of the major old content from the Star Wars universe. That would be very disappointing for most long-time Star Wars fans. I'm hoping they will take a new approach with the new story, and make it co-exist with the rough plot-line of the old content in the same universe, but not directly related. That would be the wisest thing to do, I think.

[Jeff]

You're joking.....right?

 

I am, but with Disney's stance on the EU it could happen. 

[Kessno]

I am, but with Disney's stance on the EU it could happen. 

 

I think it's pretty much a given that Kyle won't be stealing the Death Star plans in Rogue One. In Dark Forces, Kyle was working with Jan and infiltrated the base solo to retrieve the plans. It sounds like more or less that for the film there is going to be an entire insertion team going in to retrieve the plans and take them back to the Rebel Alliance. (intro to EP4)

 

I wouldn't stop developing the DF2 mod though just because of a possible change of story in this stand-alone film. You're remaking the DF2 game for fans, I wouldn't worry about the what direction the film takes.

[Cerez]

I think it's pretty much a given that Kyle won't be stealing the Death Star plans in Rogue One.

 

If that's true, I won't be watching this movie. They can't just ditch years of stories and a huge fan-base for a completely new take without preserving the original characters and main events! That would be just downright awful. If that's the new direction that Disney is taking, then I'm willing to say bye-bye to the new Star Wars, and just stick with the old stories. In that case, f**k their new universe, it's not canon to me!!! But somehow I'm really doubtful that that's the case...

[Ramikad]

If they remove Kyle Katarn in any way, I'll prolly dump DF2 mod. :/

 

"A pity. Then you will die."

 

<flashes Force Destruction>

 

 

But in all seriousness, I don't care if the new canon is against this specific part of the Expanded Universe. NumberWan's signature is the way to go.

[NumberWan]

I will definitely watch the movie, but that won't change my opinion on what trully took place back in Dark Forces. The figure of Kyle Katarn stands on the shelf and nothing in the world gonna remove him from Star Wars to any bit.

Nevertheless the movie might be quite good. Who knows. It can be good even if Kyle is not taken into account. I would stick to my version then.

The development of all this new material seems to be going in one direction - previous sources established lots of good things and showed the events everyone wanted to see. But due to the specifics of the time before year 2000, all those sources never showed what the new generation would like to see today.

Take the Death Star plans plot for instance. Since Dark Forces release a whole new generation was born. And grew up. If my nephew would ask, who stole the Death Star plans, what kind of victory was that, I would have to show Dark Forces. Would he understand that game? Would he enjoy even an explanation of the events and how cool it was to fight Dark Troopers after that? I doubt it. I would even say, that the story might disappoint the newcomers to Star Wars.

It's a pivotal moment, that needs to me reimagined to newer Star Wars fans. I don't say I agree with such politics, but it's happening naturally despite our likes.

[hleV]

I will definitely watch the movie, but that won't change my opinion on what trully took place back in Dark Forces. The figure of Kyle Katarn stands on the shelf and nothing in the world gonna remove him from Star Wars to any bit.

"I like Kyle Katarn so he's canon and the actually canon stuff is not." That's not how it works. You cannot have an opinion that goes against established facts. Can you call them bullshit, though? Definitely. Realizing something is bad is one thing, but there's no need to get delusional.

[NumberWan]

Well, Star Wars is perceived differently by various people - for some it's an entertainment, for others it's more like a good story. Some are simply fans of Sci-Fi stuff. For me it's a complex of visual communication matter, narrative and dramatic plots, deep characters, wonderful music and unusual sound effects, as well as art, cultural phenomena and a philosophical approach. So actually this works this very way - simply omit what you don't what to have in your Star Wars. 

 

It's good being incomplete - there are holes everywhere and unanswered questions. So you just choose, how Star Wars are formed and exist for you. With your own explanations. I agree with you, that nothing truly prevents you from thinking otherwise than the authors suggest. Some would prefer a possibly captivating Rogue One. Others will be loyal to good old canon story. 

 

And it is possible and even important to have an opinion, that goes against established facts. Especially if your own version gives much more than following the pattern, you are not fond very much.

[hleV]

And Earth is flat because I'd like it to be flat. Established facts are not arguable. If you think they are, you are wrong.

I myself have multiple times claimed that the shit that is TCW or Rebels is non-canon, but that was a means to portray my dissatisfaction with them, I don't actually believe my word is above the rights holders when it comes to establishing canon. Though I guess it's arguable if the established facts conflict with each other. 

 

I can still cherish the original trilogy and tell everything else to go fuck themselves.

[z3filus]

If they remove Kyle Katarn in any way, I'll prolly dump DF2 mod. :/

Disney has claimed another victim..

 

 

i  pity  this  fool

 

 

 

[NumberWan]

There are two points. Established fact is an established one in due time. Earth is not flat, but it might be not a sphere at all, as we believe.

 

Take peoples beliefs for sample. In different countries people have very different ideas on how the world was created at all. In Muslim culture it's one philosophy, in Buddhism it's different. Christianity provides its own view, which is divided between groups, like Catholics and Orthodox, for instance, among many others. And each religion is followed by many people. Try saying any of them, that they are doubting the established fact of another by following their path.

 

And Star Wars itself is not an established fact whatsoever. And surely I don't mean that we deal with Sci-Fantasy here.

 

It's that Star Wars are the six films primarily. Even before EU deemed uncanon and Episode VII, there've been so many contradictions. You simply choose what you like more. In case of Star Wars it's a question of your own imagination.