afi Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 And yeah, it would be great if the ESL players came here and stayed but I seemed to get the impression that they didn't care to, and didn't see the point, judging from conversations I've had. (can't give names, just randoms on servers that claimed to be ESL players) I could try posting on the ESL forums if you think that would make a difference. And feel free to try getting them here as well, since you actually have some credit with that community. No offense, but I think you guys still don't understand why people don't care about joining the hub. I actually advertised JKHub on the ESL news page when I was admin there but people just don't see a reason why they should join. What most of them want are demos, cfgs, fragmovies and competitive events/news. We got 4 demos (all from me) and 6 cfgs (but no actual player-configs) and zero (?) fragmovies or events. There were times where people made their own download-pages for demos and configs because there was no actual website that provided them. That could have been the chance for JKHub.It might be a bit too late now anyway.
eezstreet Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 No offense, but I think you guys still don't understand why people don't care about joining the hub. I actually advertised JKHub on the ESL news page when I was admin there but people just don't see a reason why they should join. What most of them want are demos, cfgs, fragmovies and competitive events/news. We got 4 demos (all from me) and 6 cfgs (but no actual player-configs) and zero (?) fragmovies or events. There were times where people made their own download-pages for demos and configs because there was no actual website that provided them. That could have been the chance for JKHub.It might be a bit too late now anyway.If people post demos, we'll accept them. If people post fragmovies, we'll accept them. If there is significant interest and the number of demos is reasonable, I'll consider adding a sidebar specifically for demos and fragmovies. I would rather know what we can do instead of knowing what we don't have. None of us are really experienced with that element of the community, and every moderator candidate with that angle hasn't (so far) proven themselves to be moderator material, to be honest.We're open to ideas. Let us know what competitive news is going on and we'll report on it. I might also consider re-adding the (very old) calendar app. EDIT: No offense taken. I'm not afraid to admit that we don't know what we're doing with the competitive community. It would be facetious to say otherwise. Circa likes this
afi Posted January 29, 2015 Author Posted January 29, 2015 Sorry Ping but I'm gonna add one last thing and then I'm out. And I know that we had the same conversation like 10 times before. If people post demos, we'll accept them. If people post fragmovies, we'll accept them. If there is significant interest and the number of demos is reasonable, I'll consider adding a sidebar specifically for demos and fragmovies. I would rather know what we can do instead of knowing what we don't have. None of us are really experienced with that element of the community, and every moderator candidate with that angle hasn't (so far) proven themselves to be moderator material, to be honest.We're open to ideas. Let us know what competitive news is going on and we'll report on it. I might also consider re-adding the (very old) calendar app.EDIT: No offense taken. I'm not afraid to admit that we don't know what we're doing with the competitive community. It would be facetious to say otherwise. The point is that there needs to be a base for all this. People won't join if there is no kind of content that is relevant for them. That's cause and effect.One problem is that uploading a lot of files is not really easy on JKHub, the way the file/upload system is built and it's not really possible to upload demos/cfgs that you didn't create on your own as long as you can't contact the original creator.Demos and configs are often considered as public domain, so there were huge databases with thousands of demos (or configs). You can't really expect that players who quit the game 10 years ago to load up their own demos. Uploading 100 demos would take weeks with the upload system we got on JKHub. About the moderator thing... I know that Ping and I applied to become a mod and I'm not really sure what kind of moderators you're searching for as Ping was Editor (or admin?) in the ESL and I master-admin for over 3 years. There are no hard feelings or anything but it felt like that the interest in this whole subject wasn't really high. I actually talked a lot with different admins/mods on this page over the years (especially in the beginning) but in the end nobody really cared and now it's kinda too late. And that's the last thing that I'm writing about this subject as I don't think that anything will change in the future. And yep, in the end this was just another frustrated, senseless topic.
Ping Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 People have posted a lot of stuff on the wiki and have shown great interest in it during a time when even JKHub was more active than it now is. You have "accepted it" - with the result? "Wiki implementation is really low on our list of priorities, sorry guys!" And this is just off the top of my head. EDIT: But I'm happy to see that you have apparently moved away from the claim that all of us are equally 'in a position to freely contribute and shape the community into something other than it already is' and have now (hopefully) moved on to merely encouraging suggestions. This is good and I like it.
eezstreet Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 @ and @@Ping, I have split this topic from the thread talking about the Wiki, so there can be further discussion without derailing that topic. Sorry Ping but I'm gonna add one last thing and then I'm out. And I know that we had the same conversation like 10 times before. The point is that there needs to be a base for all this. People won't join if there is no kind of content that is relevant for them. That's cause and effect.One problem is that uploading a lot of files is not really easy on JKHub, the way the file/upload system is built and it's not really possible to upload demos/cfgs that you didn't create on your own as long as you can't contact the original creator.Demos and configs are often considered as public domain, so there were huge databases with thousands of demos (or configs). You can't really expect that players who quit the game 10 years ago to load up their own demos. Uploading 100 demos would take weeks with the upload system we got on JKHub. About the moderator thing... I know that Ping and I applied to become a mod and I'm not really sure what kind of moderators you're searching for as Ping was Editor (or admin?) in the ESL and I master-admin for over 3 years. There are no hard feelings or anything but it felt like that the interest in this whole subject wasn't really high. I actually talked a lot with different admins/mods on this page over the years (especially in the beginning) but in the end nobody really cared and now it's kinda too late. And that's the last thing that I'm writing about this subject as I don't think that anything will change in the future. And yep, in the end this was just another frustrated, senseless topic.I don't want it to be just a frustrated, senseless topic. I'd like to help out and provide more resources to the competitive community, and for that I'm going to need advice from people that know more about the situation than I. In order to correct the issue with the downloads section with demos and fragmovies as you said, I have an idea on what we can do to solve that. I need to do a bit more investigation into the implementation on this site however. The idea I had was to create a database of demos and fragmovies where people can upload them, along with YouTube previews and stuff. I was hoping to have this integrated into the site, but I can't seem to find any plugins that do exactly what i want. I might just make a subdomain for this and use a custom bit of software with an RSS feed that can connect to the forum, and also add new BBCode to the forum to link easily to these database records. On the user end, this would involve packing up a bunch of demos with accompanying text files (to provide some background, including who made them, uploaded them, a YouTube link for a preview, that sort of thing) into a .zip so they can all be uploaded in bulk.Alternatively, I can poke around our currently-existing Downloads plugin and see if I can't work something out to ease the ability of uploading multiple files, because I agree with you, it is a bit of a pain with the current system. The majority of work in this area would rely heavily on how much time I have available to mess with it. I've been super busy over the last year and I haven't really had enough time to poke at the inner workings of the site like I wanted to. I can also talk with the other staff and see if they would be interested in lifting the author's permission notice for demos and videos. The whole reason we were concerned about bringing Ping on was that he can be a bit brash/hostile at times. We need people to try and be diplomatic as possible when it comes to staff. We very strongly considered both of you for positions here specifically because of the experience you guys have with the competitive community (and you're both also quite active, which is a huge plus), but we've been hesitant due to aggression. It's not like we don't care about the competitive community (believe me, I've personally been rooting for you guys), it's just that we've been in a bind where we couldn't do anything. People have posted a lot of stuff on the wiki and have shown great interest in it during a time when even JKHub was more active than it now is. You have "accepted it" - with the result? "Wiki implementation is really low on our list of priorities, sorry guys!" And this is just off the top of my head. EDIT: But I'm happy to see that you have apparently moved away from the claim that all of us are equally 'in a position to freely contribute and shape the community into something other than it already is' and have now (hopefully) moved on to merely encouraging suggestions. This is good and I like it.I wouldn't know much about the wiki because I don't visit it all that often. I think the general opinion amongst the staff is that we need to either do away with it if it's just going to remain in a neglected state, or we need to change the software to something that's more compatible with our site. In a perfect world, we could acquire a wiki plugin from the forum software's developer, but unfortunately such a plugin does not exist. MediaWiki has been nothing but a huge pain in the ass for us. The whole reason we couldn't get JKHub accounts integrated into the wiki was that MediaWiki is such crap software. Unfortunately there is no better alternative, really, to my knowledge at least. I would like to get the wiki working great, but it's a bit of a lost cause to some extent. I've honestly done a big about-face regarding the idea that it's the community's obligation to help bring the competitive community here. That would make more sense if we had never done any advertising in the initial release of the site; yet we actively posted on Gamefront and other sites to help get the word out. I think there's also this general idea that the modders are "dumb" regarding the game and competitive people are "elitist". I don't think either one is true, really.
Ping Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 There needs to be lots more work put into the website to give others an incentive to participate, but as you said, there's only so much any single person (or a small team of people) can do at a time. Short of bolstering the ranks with coders, there's not much that can be done. But at least we got past the finger pointing part faster this time around.
Ping Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 And then finally, driven by the shining display of reason, JKHub was reborn in a heartbeat. Fully implemented, custom ladders for 1v1 and TDM, a custom brackets section for tournaments, all with special features that spill into the forums, like custom icons beneath a user's avatar that display for how long he has been dominating the #1 on the ladders and how many tournaments he has won. A JKHub pug server rising from the ashes like a pheonix and leaving in its wake only the dead remnants of ESL's new crappy forums and website structure. Xycaleth, afi, Futuza and 1 other like this
eezstreet Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 I like the idea of a JKHub ladder and pug server, but I would like to get the demos, speedruns and frag videos section online first, as there are fewer sites to compete with compared to ESL and JKLeague. I don't know about having icons beneath avatars, since we'd like to keep that section of a post clear. If you have some other ideas about merging these features into the forums, let me know. I can't remember - is there a custom profile field for peoples' clans? I'd check, but my internet is shaky atm. If there isn't one, I should probably go ahead and add that, as well as a field for a clan website.
afi Posted January 30, 2015 Author Posted January 30, 2015 I think it would be great if this would happen and you will get surely all the help you need for that (if it's not already too late for this community, I know I'm a pessimist).
eezstreet Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I've added new profile fields, let me know if you can think of more.
Circa Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I wanted to add IP.Gallery in order to have a proper media center for people to upload photos and videos like those, and to have an actual featured picture and featured video that's built in with that, and not my jank featured picture method. So people can just watch the videos people upload with an option to download, and not just download in the files section like it is now. As it turns out, we have some plans to revamp the entire JKHub site soon anyway, so we will keep all that in mind when planning it. I wanted a server like that, and have some people like you guys admin it, but two things stopped me: wasn't sure if you were active enough in JKA anymore to even consider it, and having a server will attract a lot more drama than we already have (mod used, gamemodes, DDoSes, typical clan drama, etc)
Ping Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Since we can't compete with igmdb, the IP.Gallery thing might as well be scratched (but we can easily compete with the ESL now that they decided to bastardize the jka section and jkleague is a non-entity anyways, no offence to silva). A (tabular and extensive) demo archives, ladders, custom sections for inhouse tournaments and forum based rewards for competing in them should be the priority (other forms of forum integration could be things like buttons that can be seen everytime a person posts and allows others to challenge said person to a ladder match etc). I think a wiki or somesort of an info page on things jka should definitely be kept and made more prominent and visible here. Pug servers are mostly good for getting the word out, so they're not necessary right now since we don't have anything to advertise anyways. Maybe you could start advertising JKHub staff positions again just to get additional coders onto the team.
Link Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Back when I was a staff member, one of my focuses was to get some interest from the competitive community but unfortunately it didn't get very far... I hope we can get something working because I'd love to see this site appeal to everyone lots of good ideas in this thread already.
Futuza Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 A JKHUB run monthly in-game event (or even more often) would probably also help. Even if it isn't super 'competitive' every time persay. Maybe even have a theme with the event. eg: Wookie Bowcaster Only CTF match or something. Ping and ent like this
therfiles Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Moderation Note Antagonistic messages removed. The purpose of this thread is to brainstorm effective ways to reach out to areas of the community that may not be actively involved with JKHub. eezstreet, Futuza and Link like this
eezstreet Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Since we can't compete with igmdb, the IP.Gallery thing might as well be scratched (but we can easily compete with the ESL now that they decided to bastardize the jka section and jkleague is a non-entity anyways, no offence to silva). A (tabular and extensive) demo archives, ladders, custom sections for inhouse tournaments and forum based rewards for competing in them should be the priority (other forms of forum integration could be things like buttons that can be seen everytime a person posts and allows others to challenge said person to a ladder match etc). I think a wiki or somesort of an info page on things jka should definitely be kept and made more prominent and visible here. Pug servers are mostly good for getting the word out, so they're not necessary right now since we don't have anything to advertise anyways. Maybe you could start advertising JKHub staff positions again just to get additional coders onto the team.We are investigating upgrade options as part of a larger shift as @@Circa has mentioned. I will personally push for changes including a calendar, demo archives, and wiki revamping (the latter of which is confirmed to be part of said upgrade. we are not abandoning it.)Every time we've received applications for coders, there aren't that many qualified people unfortunately. I will investigate the calendar option and add a few more profile fields that I missed. EDIT: Actually, nix that. We've had a calendar for a very long time, but it's been completely hidden:http://jkhub.org/calendar Link likes this
ensiform Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I know most of the basers aren't interested in using OpenJK on either end but the auto demo feature on the server could be helpful for creating a collection of all demos from everybody in all your matches. http://www.jactf.com/demo-archive This contains age old demos plus ones that are automatically uploaded now from all the CTF servers hosted using OpenJK.
eezstreet Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Calendar link added to navigation, removing both Rules and Donate, which are down at the bottom with "About Us" and "Contact"
Ping Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I had that CTF archive in mind when I asked for one.
Circa Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 @ so for videos you submit, would you like us to upload them to our YouTube account and embed them on the file's description? At least for now, until we get a new media center for videos and photos? Or just leave them as a download? I also added a frag movies sub category. afi likes this
afi Posted February 5, 2015 Author Posted February 5, 2015 Well they are already on youtube so it would be enough to just embed them I guess. Even better would be a short preview, but that would be quite complex
Circa Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Well they are already on youtube so it would be enough to just embed them I guess. Even better would be a short preview, but that would be quite complexIf I can't find them on YouTube, then we can upload the, then. And yeah, a preview would be a cool idea.
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