Finally burying the hatchet on one of the oldest bits of nonsense...

[eezstreet]

There is absolutely -no- difference at all between 1.00 and 1.01 saber stuff. None. Zip. Nada. After closely examining the difflog between JKA 1.00 and 1.01, I can conclude definitively that there's no difference to be had. One could proclaim "compiler differences! optimization!" or something else, but there's no clear cut distinction in the code, and furthermore no evidence has been provided that there is a difference (no videos, scans with various tools like IDA show no distinct codepage/PE header/default calling convention differences at all). Furthermore, there is no mention of any sort of saber stuff in the changelog for 1.01 that would corroborate the claim that 1.00 has better blocks.

 

https://github.com/jedis/jediacademy/commit/59f7e71450c89e1cc127e0cd71eeb0a62cb689c7

I think this can be more or less case closed.

[ChalklYne]

 

Cool stuff good job Eez

[Shadzy]

Finally, ESL complaints inbound!!

[thepolis]

 

 

One could proclaim "compiler differences! optimization!" or something else

 

Something as simple as SSE turned on which most mods compile with destroys basejka gameplay.

If you browse through the disassembly SSE is obviously not used in 1.01.

JA+ likely uses SSE which explains the infinite parry phenomena.

I haven't bothered to look at 1.00 and I don't care too.

[eezstreet]

Something as simple as SSE turned on which most mods compile with destroys basejka gameplay.

If you browse through the disassembly SSE is obviously not used in 1.01.

JA+ likely uses SSE which explains the infinite parry phenomena.

I haven't bothered to look at 1.00 and I don't care too.

makes sense if you don't consider that JA+ completely alters the saber system in many ways

[thepolis]

You can build with SSE and SSE plays similar to JA+ SP.

[ensiform]

SSE isn't really going to affect anything in a negative way though.  FP math is still guaranteed by the IEEE floating point spec.  Most of the issues are probably from other optimizations such as in gcc at different -O levels which mess up the way the old code is expecting it to work.

 

ESL is shit anyway.

[eezstreet]

You can build with SSE and SSE plays similar to JA+ SP.

what.

[Raz0r]

Something as simple as SSE turned on which most mods compile with destroys basejka gameplay.

If you browse through the disassembly SSE is obviously not used in 1.01.

SSE is not enabled by default, and as Ensiform said it must still adhere to IEEE floating point specification.

 

I've still yet to see a demo in identical scenarios between base and mods with the same configuration producing different results.

[Ping]

Can someone explain to me how the ESL is relevant to this?

[Raz0r]

Perhaps the community perpetuating false information to justify their purist choices.

[Ping]

To justify their purist choice over 1.00? So let me ask again: Why is the ESL relevant to this discussion about gameplay differences between 1.01 and 1.00?

[eezstreet]

Erm, ESL are 1.00'ers...

[Ping]

Where did you get that one from? Ever since the patch was released, the ESL fully embraced it and required all matches to be played on 1.01. There was never even a discussion or a vote or anything like that, never separate 1.00 ladders (at least for the SO format) or some other nonsense. The people who kept playing 1.00 did it on their own and were in the vast minority.

[afi]

Stupid ESL hate here

[eezstreet]

Where did you get that one from? Ever since the patch was released, the ESL fully embraced it and required all matches to be played on 1.01. There was never even a discussion or a vote or anything like that, never separate 1.00 ladders (at least for the SO format) or some other nonsense. The people who kept playing 1.00 did it on their own and were in the vast minority.

As I recall, there was some discussion recently or a specific subset of ESL that was claiming that 1.00 was the best. There's still people out there who claim that 1.00 is the best and offers superior blocking, for basically no reason. Pretty much like arguing that com_hunkmegs improves performance at this rate.

 

Stupid ESL hate here

Aren't ESL hardcore basers or something? As in, the kind that believe that if you even modify one small little file, the game will explode and suddenly things won't be perfectly balanced and cheats? Or am I confusing with another community

[Ping]

As I recall, there was some discussion recently or a specific subset of ESL that was claiming that 1.00 was the best. There's still people out there who claim that 1.00 is the best and offers superior blocking, for basically no reason. Pretty much like arguing that com_hunkmegs improves performance at this rate.

There was a thread on the ESL forums where some people claimed 1.00 was the best, and so therefore "ESL are 1.00ers"? That's like saying that because some people in the porting thread on jkhub claimed that porting was ok, therefore "JKHub are porters". But while we're at it, since you were apparently following the ESL discussions so closely, you should have also noticed that there was a large admin-based discussion as to whether or not to start JA+ and MB2 ladders to accomodate all the people who prefer playing on those mods. The only reason none of those were implemented was that attempts at getting people interested to join the ESL, even for potential JA+ ladders, have mostly failed. If all the JA+ clans would suddenly come together and write the admins that they want their own ladder, they'd get it in a heartbeat - we've been doing this for years when it comes to nationalities: The Hungarians and even the Russians got their own 1v1 ladders when their player base got large enough, and there is no purist nonsense preventing us from creating JA+ ladders for the people interested.

As to why the ESL has an aversion to having its matches from the current leagues played on anything but pure base servers: Standardising server options helps against cheating and it also prevents people from pulling the "lol your mod obviously does change the gameplay" card as an excuse for losing, regardless of whether or not the gameplay actually differs.

 

So I hope we can put some of the prejudices here to rest and stop spreading misinformation.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Funky. I've known people who play both versions to claim that 1.00 saber gameplay is worser. And I've never seen ESL people in 1.00, unless its like a one day visit.

 

But of course with evidence that there's no difference, I suppose any argument is invalid. XD

[afi]

There were MBII and Ja+ ladders, however there was no 1.00 ladder at any point in the history of the Jedi Academy ESL-section since 2004.

Also what Ping said.

[MagSul]

I remember people whining about this. I'm not sure when, but at some point it died down and anyone who lost a duel immediately fell back on "ura fuckin h4x0r" instead. 

[eezstreet]

I specifically remember a large competitive community of people (who I believe were basers) who came to us (JACoders) asking us for assistance in creating an "anticheat that doesn't modify the game" or something to that extent. When told that...yeah, you might have to modify the game, they promptly got mad at us for no real reason. I believe that the ESL also approached us, perhaps on a separate occasion. I'm not too sure, this all happened several years ago and the details are a bit hazy to me. Regardless, I remember that the upper management of the ESL were sketchy at best, and there was definitely something...off about them, but I can't remember anything tbh.

[Ping]

Yeah, but I'm sure neither of us wants to draw conclusions based on gut feelings or anecdotal evidence, especially when those conclusions involve attributing something negative to an entire organization or player base. We all make mistakes though, and that's totally fine because we're all here to learn from each other and to dispell stereotypes like these that might prevent one side from constructively engaging with the other.

[eezstreet]

Yeah, but I'm sure neither of us wants to draw conclusions based on gut feelings or anecdotal evidence, especially when those conclusions involve attributing something negative to an entire organization or player base. We all make mistakes though, and that's totally fine because we're all here to learn from each other and to dispell stereotypes like these that might prevent one side from constructively engaging with the other.

Exactly. Thank you for being diplomatic about the situation.

[Acrobat]

Yep the patches in jk2 outcast were pretty epic. major updates and made the game a lot better.

 

Lucas's jka patch was minor and left the game all fucked up in my opinion

[Shadzy]

It is what it is, anyway, this thread was made to say the OP's original point, and now we have community-driven developers taking it forward!!! Lets hail this era of it!