Gauging Interest (Opinions Needed)

[Link]

I've been thinking lately (Yes, it hurt to do so ) of ways to encourage more interaction from the community, if you could take a few moments to read below and vote, I'd appreciate it

 

Contests

I realize that contests have been done to death on other JK related websites, however they usually always provide something new. SO I'd like to propose doing a contest once every 3 months.

 

January - Winter Contest

April - Spring Contest

July - Summer Contest

October - Autumn Contest

 

These can be given fancy seasonal names, I'm sure if this is well received we'll get some good suggestions

 

These would be based on specific yet simple things such as e.g.

• Reskin the Saboteur model (The user would be asked to include a specific texture somewhere as well as a shader, a guide will be written to go along with the contest)
• Create a map of a specific size (We could provide a .map file that is simply an empty box the size of a room that needs filling to your own desire... would produce a lot of different variations and spark creativity
• Model a hilt (Might be a bit advanced, but hopefully someone can create a clear and easy to follow video tutorial to go with it)

It would be different every time and would try to encourage creativity, rather than just being asked to "make a map" without any resources. The aim is that the user learns something new and/or submits some new content to  JKHub for the community.

 

But, what do we get for winning?

This leads on to my next idea which I shared with the staff last week... which issss

 

Awards System

One way to reward people for their contributions could be to give out awards for certain things. We could use the following addon to our site:

http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/5966-hq-awards/

 

Awards could include

• First tutorial
• 10 Tutorials (Submitting 10 tutorials)
• First file
• 10 Files (Submitting 10 files)
• Recognized JK Contributor (Could be made a thing, where people vote once a month for someone to be given the award perhaps)
• Wiki contributor (25-50 Articles/Pages)
• Staff/Former Staff
• Donor (For those who donate 5 dollars or more perhaps)

And so on.

 

Tutorial Submission Days

Much like the contests, we could have a day where we encourage people to write at least one tutorial on a subject they know about JK/JK modding. This would be pre-planned and less organized than contests in terms of specific days. I would suggest doing it rarely to avoid it becoming a thing to avoid rather than a challenge.

 

If only 10 people wrote one tutorial, it'd be a huge contribution in a very short time... even one tutorial is great. Giving tutorials more focus is definitely a good thing I'd say.

 

Mod Specific Tutorials

What do you guys think about adding a new category to the tutorials area called Mod Specific? This could contain tutorials that only apply to certain modifications e.g. OpenJK, JA++, JA+, jaMME, Pugmod etc

 

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on these ideas, by all means tear them apart and/or suggest alternatives

[Link]

Forgot to add the poll >_> updated

[Boothand]

As long as it doesn't become too competitive, having contests and awards could be nice and could surely inspire people to contribute more I think. Maybe make the awards as subtle as possible.

 

On polls I'm usually the "I don't know" guy, but since those options weren't there, I clicked in the middle and it became yes on tutorial days. However, I've come across several tutorials on different things around the web that are more destructive than helpful, haha. Maybe the "let's see if I can squeeze one more tutorial in to get that award... hnnng!" could cause some actual misleading tutorials, duplicate tutorials or even unnecessary (if possible) tutorials. How to open Pakscape. Just passing thoughts.

 

Good initiative though!

[MoonDog]

I voted no on a couple things, and yes on one but with a caveat. I have work in 30 minutes so I'll keep it brief.

 

 

-Mod Specific tutorials: I feel like these would turn into advertisement for specific server mods really quickly, and that the server management section should cover that.

 

-Tutorial Submission Days. I don't think, (No offense intended whatsoever) the current moderator team has a good enough pool of knowledge to judge when someone is submitting bad information that could be detrimental if used too widely. For instance, a tutorial on VIS optimization might be half greek to you guys, but be completely wrong.

 

-Award System. I voted yes, but I think it should be restricted to mainly contributing and or modding. No offense intended once again, but I don't think simply being staff or former staff would fit well into that. I'd rather see staff and former staff receive recognition based on the modding they have done, the amount of files they worked to get on the site and so on.

[Link]

I voted no on a couple things, and yes on one but with a caveat. I have work in 30 minutes so I'll keep it brief.

 

 

-Mod Specific tutorials: I feel like these would turn into advertisement for specific server mods really quickly, and that the server management section should cover that.

 

-Tutorial Submission Days. I don't think, (No offense intended whatsoever) the current moderator team has a good enough pool of knowledge to judge when someone is submitting bad information that could be detrimental if used too widely. For instance, a tutorial on VIS optimization might be half greek to you guys, but be completely wrong.

 

-Award System. I voted yes, but I think it should be restricted to mainly contributing and or modding. No offense intended once again, but I don't think simply being staff or former staff would fit well into that. I'd rather see staff and former staff receive recognition based on the modding they have done, the amount of files they worked to get on the site and so on.

 

Good points, especially about it becoming an advertisement for a server mod. How would you approach the idea of clientside mods and where would those fit?

 

(Tutorials) Absolutely, I'm not fully aware of all of the other staffs capabilities however that is what user feedback, ratings and reporting is intended to be used for if something isn't right then I'm sure people will gladly point it out.

 

(Awards) I think it being solely based on just modding might be a bit of a stretch. I think tutorials and other contributions should be recognized as well.

[ent]

About awards: in my opinion, they should not be like achievements, they should be just given by administration. So people should not know conditions, else it will just go into "let's do some quests to get that icon" than actually doing something useful.

[MoonDog]

(Awards) I think it being solely based on just modding might be a bit of a stretch. I think tutorials and other contributions should be recognized as well.

 

I did say contributing . I meant simply BEING a staff member shouldn't be an award, if you are going with an award system. That is a little.... weird.

[Link]

Oh I agree with the staff one, I just threw it up as a blank idea to prompt other suggestions

[Circa]

I voted no on a couple things, and yes on one but with a caveat. I have work in 30 minutes so I'll keep it brief.

 

 

-Mod Specific tutorials: I feel like these would turn into advertisement for specific server mods really quickly, and that the server management section should cover that.

All tutorials are reviewed by the staff before being approved. We'd probably notice if one seemed more like an advertisement. I know for a lot of mods, threads have been made for mod specific issues that have been answered dozens of times. Tutorials would be great to have for JA++, OpenJK, and jaMME, etc. We already have some of these in various categories in the tutorials, and this would help them be found easier. You have a good point though!

 

 

-Tutorial Submission Days. I don't think, (No offense intended whatsoever) the current moderator team has a good enough pool of knowledge to judge when someone is submitting bad information that could be detrimental if used too widely. For instance, a tutorial on VIS optimization might be half greek to you guys, but be completely wrong.

You have a good point, but like Link said, we'd find out really quick if a tutorial was wrong, from the comments on them. 

 

 

-Award System. I voted yes, but I think it should be restricted to mainly contributing and or modding. No offense intended once again, but I don't think simply being staff or former staff would fit well into that. I'd rather see staff and former staff receive recognition based on the modding they have done, the amount of files they worked to get on the site and so on.

Right, awards wouldn't really be for simple things like being staff, but it's to encourage people to contribute new content to the site.

 

 

As long as it doesn't become too competitive, having contests and awards could be nice and could surely inspire people to contribute more I think. Maybe make the awards as subtle as possible.

 

On polls I'm usually the "I don't know" guy, but since those options weren't there, I clicked in the middle and it became yes on tutorial days. However, I've come across several tutorials on different things around the web that are more destructive than helpful, haha. Maybe the "let's see if I can squeeze one more tutorial in to get that award... hnnng!" could cause some actual misleading tutorials, duplicate tutorials or even unnecessary (if possible) tutorials. How to open Pakscape. Just passing thoughts.

 

Good initiative though!

I don't think the awards and contests will be that competitive. We want some competition and motivation though. And remember, we review everything we receive, so if a tutorial is simply "How to Open Pakscape", we'd probably deny it.

 

[Ping]

The contests only help to further entrench the idea that this a community of modders and will make opening up to other areas of jka even more difficult than it already is. If you were to turn the contests into (i.e.) sabering or CTF tournaments, maybe even leagues, and would advertise them appropriately, then maybe the opposite effect could be achieved though. The same problem applies to the tutorial days, if they are treated as proper events. Just encourage people to write more tutorials without holding events instead. As for awards, I have a problem with them in general, so I'd suggest just keeping it to general news posts if praise is really necessary.

 

So yeah, I voted no on all of them.

[Link]

You are more than welcome to advertise your CTF tournaments/sabering in our Events area, I haven't seen many competitive advertisements around here. The fact is that we're a community of mostly modders here and we are trying to encourage creativity rather than expecting it to simply come to us.

 

In terms of the tutorials, this is how I saw it going (Which in turn encourages people to write more tutorials as you said):

We'd make somewhat regular tutorial days, encouraging people to actively check the tutorials section out and question what they could contribute EVEN if they had no desire to do so in the first place. This keeps the tutorials area in peoples minds more regularly and stops it being neglected as it is right now. Now the thought is in the persons mind, they are more likely to either read or submit a tutorial of their own whenever they think of a subject and/or feel like writing. If an area remains static then the thought/memory of that feature will fade away more quickly.

[Ping]

Oh so the contests will be just posts in the events sub-forum? I thought it would be something more interesting, featuring news posts and all the fancy attention stuff from the admins and whatnot. If it's just that, then the impact won't be as large, but I still believe branching out more is in the interest of jkhub in general. But then again I was lured here by the promise of finding a 'central website for all things JK', and I'm not sure if that's something you guys are even trying to live by anymore.

[Link]

I never said the contests will be in the events sub forum, I was talking about what you proposed instead. You're free to get those things going yourself. We can only provide "All things JK" if those interested in those areas actually pull their weight rather than just passing comments on the sidelines.

 

If you'd like to contribute more content that you feel is missing, the website is completely open for you to do so as it was intended by Caelum in the first place.

[eezstreet]

@@Ping has a good point though.

 

These contests would be mostly promoted by the staff and be given proper news posts (and awards?). Since there's no plans for any competitive events similar to this, there's definitely a disparity between the competitive and creative communities.

 

Most of this community caters to the creative edge. I mean, look at the staff, all of them are modders, none of them really got involved in the competitive community (You're probably the only exception, @@SiLink, but you managed a clan, I don't think that's similar to the CTF, speed running, etc. communities at all)

 

tl;dr - @@Ping is right, this site needs more competitive support.

[Link]

@@Ping has a good point though.

 

These contests would be mostly promoted by the staff and be given proper news posts (and awards?). Since there's no plans for any competitive events similar to this, there's definitely a disparity between the competitive and creative communities.

 

Most of this community caters to the creative edge. I mean, look at the staff, all of them are modders, none of them really got involved in the competitive community (You're probably the only exception, @@SiLink, but you managed a clan, I don't think that's similar to the CTF, speed running, etc. communities at all)

 

tl;dr - @@Ping is right, this site needs more competitive support.

 

I do fully agree with you/Ping, but that is not something we can easily fix. It's up to the competitive community to step forward and contribute the content. I've seen a lot of good stuff about competitive play on the wiki (Some a bit biased, but the vast majority is really amazing stuff) but we lack the experience as a staff to deliver this content, and if we tried then it would be done poorly... The tools are there to get things rolling, we just need the right people to step forward and use them.

[eezstreet]

I voted no btw on all parts.

 

Contests - I have a feeling that these will too specific to sections. Ping kinda alludes to this. There isn't one area that everyone in the community could fairly contribute to. Coders generally can't make art well (vice versa) and modders can't compete ingame well (vice versa). Speaking of code...how would you even do a contest based on this? That automatically constrains it to art and competition, neither of which I'm particularly good at (and I'm sure there's plenty of others with this problem).

 

Awards - I could see this degrading and people use it as a token of superiority against other people ("huehue I'm best codder/moddeller/skinrr/whatevurr, I'm so much better than you, look at all my awards"). The same could be said for contests.

 

Mod Specific Tutorials - These mods should be posting these tutorials in their mod forums or on their site. People won't come to JKH for mod-specific stuff I'm afraid, that's mostly just common sense (well maybe not for MB2, but MB2 community is full of trolls so I mean)

 

Tutorial Days - WTF is there to write tutorials about anyway, besides code crap? And really, code crap like that is highly specific. Might as well make a tutorial on modeling Obi Wan Kenobi. :/ Other than that, I literally have no idea what you'd even write a tutorial for. Other than sound, maybe?

[eezstreet]

I do fully agree with you/Ping, but that is not something we can easily fix. It's up to the competitive community to step forward and contribute the content. I've seen a lot of good stuff about competitive play on the wiki (Some a bit biased, but the vast majority is really amazing stuff) but we lack the experience as a staff to deliver this content, and if we tried then it would be done poorly... The tools are there to get things rolling, we just need the right people to step forward and use them.

So hire someone from the competitive community. That's the easiest way I see to solve the problem. Maybe create a JKH Series. Just uh...don't be like ESL (because they literally have no idea what they're doing)

[Link]

Easier said than done, we advertise for staff positions and (As far as I know, I could be wrong) we rarely get any applications from those who are more fans of the competitive side of the game. I wouldn't even know where to advertise such positions in order to get the right people. We have quite a few competitive players here who make comments about the lack of competitive content, so I ask... why aren't they either making it, putting people forward or even advertising their regular events here? There is only so much we can do.

 

 

Contests - I have a feeling that these will too specific to sections. Ping kinda alludes to this. There isn't one area that everyone in the community could fairly contribute to

 

That is why I suggested that we provide a tutorial with the contest, so that everyone has a fair chance to enter regardless of experience in the field that contest is in.

[Ping]

Because they don't have the same resources as you do. It's one thing to post about an event in some sub-forum, another thing entirely to have the entire staff doing interviews and writing news posts and all that. I mean, just consider this: You say my work on the competitive play entry is amazing, yet even though it would be a nice way to get more people interested in competitive jka and even get some people from the competitive community to participate here by wanting to discuss or alter the article, there has been no attempt whatsoever to spread the word by making a news post or something, despite your knowledge (and appreciation!) of the entry. Instead, we're going to get more interviews with modders about their projects. How can you seriously claim we're equals in this?

[afi]

I offered my help more than once when JKHub came out but the interest was obviously not really high. And it's the opposite way. The competitive players won't come to the JKHub if they don't see any reason for it. You have to give them a reason to stay.

I wish JKHub was more like jediknight3.de back then...

[Circa]

What kind of things would you want us to do? Hosting competitive events? What do all the competitive players do on their own sites and forums? I like the idea of interviewing and help spread the word, but what else?

 

The reason this place is made for modders, is because of the Downloads feature, and the forums, for fellow modders to help each other out with their mods.

 

 

I offered my help more than once when JKHub came out but the interest was obviously not really high. And it's the opposite way. The competitive players won't come to the JKHub if they don't see any reason for it. You have to give them a reason to stay.

I wish JKHub was more like jediknight3.de back then...

It was understandable that it wasn't a priority when it first came out, the priority was the file system. Now that it's been over a year (and different staff), we are open to suggestions regarding these sorts of things. Obviously we aren't all that familiar with competitive play, so enlighten us on your ideas for this.

[ent]

@Ping, Leagues is bad experience imo, it requires a lot of active players and jedi academy doesn't have many, especially ctf community. Mini-tournaments are way better.

[eezstreet]

That is why I suggested that we provide a tutorial with the contest, so that everyone has a fair chance to enter regardless of experience in the field that contest is in.

Tutorials aren't going to put you anywhere near the skill level of someone who's done it for years. Especially coding. Or modelling. Or mapping.

[eezstreet]

And yeah, agreed. Why would competitive players want to come to this place? There's no content for them here. You're asking a minority in the community to magically create content (not officially sponsored by the site, by the way, so it only shows up in a small subset of the forums) to make competitive players want to stay here. That's a tall order, and you really need someone who's very experienced in the area.

 

I disagree though, @@ent. ESL drew quite a crowd, but their poor management really broke their system. However ESL was more into sabering, not CTF as I recall, so perhaps the population size there is different.

[ent]

@eezstreet, I am looking at how ql tournaments are going now: one time per week (usually on weekends) we can see 125fps tournaments, faceit, zotac (was a year ago). And they go very well. Not everyone has much time to take a part in leagues, which requires be more active. And it's much cooler to organize an event once per week like on weekend when more people are free, than expect high activity all the time.