Ask me anything about the Jedi source code

[Cerez]

@@MGummelt - hah, we don't need no stinkin' badges... no need for proof-- the veterans here now you well.

I agree. Not after the in-depth knowledge on the code he demonstrated -- a badge could not do a better job of convincing me. (Thank you, @@MGummelt. Your presence is really making a big difference on the progress of all projects here, and is truly appreciated.)

[Lancelot]

I don't have any questions to be asked, but I have this weird feeling that this topic might be some sort of Moon landing for us.

Many important questions could be answered that might bring the development of some mods further.

 

What do you think, @@JaceSolarisVIII? This topic might be helpful for your SerenityJediEngine.

[JaceSolarisVIII]

I don't have any questions to be asked, but I have this weird feeling that this topic might be some sort of Moon landing for us.

Many important questions could be answered that might bring the development of some mods further.

 

What do you think, @@JaceSolarisVIII? This topic might be helpful for your SerenityJediEngine.

I allready Pm,d him.lol

[ensiform]

What do you think, @@JaceSolarisVIII? This topic might be helpful for your SerenityJediEngine.

Could I have a link to the source code?

[JaceSolarisVIII]

Could I have a link to the source code?

Sure ,give me till this evening i will upload it and provide a download link , no problem.Any advice or tips or bug correction tips would be most welcome.Im just not at home at the moment but i should be home about 7pm

[ensiform]

You should definitely upload it to GitHub or something. Then you have fewer issues with your source dying from hard drive failure. And can keep track of changes, handle releases, issues etc!

 

https://help.github.com/articles/adding-an-existing-project-to-github-using-the-command-line/#platform-windows

[JaceSolarisVIII]

I Will take a look at uploading it to github in the near future.The code is not in any fit state to put it up as a release or example like Openjk.

 

I couldnt wait till this evening so i came home just to upload the code because im soooooo desperate for help i didnt want you to think i was stalling or some thing.

 

So i put it on my google drive straight from my pc.

 

Hope this is correct as i uploaded it as it is from my folder on my pc.I use VS2010 to compile it after woking on it.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4G29RZdpiBeVTFQekNoRHgxSzA/view?usp=sharing

 

Please comfirm i have uploaded it correctly and it is working for you,as i am usure how to make any major adjustments to it.

 

Thanks for taking the time to look at it. :-)

[ensiform]

It doesn't need to be in any fit state to be released to go on GitHub.  I won't be able to help, I don't have VS because I'm not on Windows.  I also wasn't really intending to help, just wanted to see the code get released and then others can help.

[JaceSolarisVIII]

You are the first person to show any interest so far so i hope this will start some sort of chain reaction to get people involved.

[MGummelt]

wow that's gold man! thanks for all!

i have just a last question, and after that, i will leave, because i agree @@Cerez idea of a thread with the most important and common question for you by all community, so you are not stressed by an overflow of asks.

it's just a simple tecnical curiosity about terrains.

in a past thread, NumberWan noticed me that the the terrain of level t2_trip has a different structure of triangles respect of a default terrain like in hoth2 map... it's like the original map developer used some kind of decimating tool for reducing number of poly that make the terrain. considering that gtk radiant for JKA map have a limit of 64 thousand brush for a level, and an huge terrain entity is very poly consuming i understanbd if developer got some kind of LOD decimator of the more complex terrain for avoid brushes overflows. sure is pretty fine for an huge map with an big terrain, like t2_trip. this map is very... vaste D:

i was interessed about that tecnique of terrain sculpting, maybe can be of help also for many mappers here.

However, thanks for all your time. I understood if you not answer soon at this question. technically that involving mapping and not souource coding. :\

thanks for all the time you spend for me, sir.

i will read you. bye

 

Sorry, I don't really know much about the tech details of how our terrain was made.  I could ask around, though.

[MGummelt]

@@MGummelt what did you guys do to the efx system to cause this in JKA over JK2:

https://github.com/JACoders/OpenJK/issues/908

 

Nobody has been to be able to notice where it's adding extra primitives when the efx files are identical.

Hmm.  I have a hard time believing the game shipped with such an obvious bug.  Does the retail (patched or unpatched) version behave this way?  Or just the JKA source code when compiled?

[MGummelt]

@MGummelt -- Were you involved with X-Men Legends or Marvel: Ultimate Alliance in any way? We have a team of modders over at marvelmods.com who could use a Raven employee's expertise.

 

Back on topic, any idea why it was JO/JA were never released for PS2, but made it to GameCube/Xbox? Is the GameCube source code still out there somewhere?

I was only involved in the very beginning in the creation of the combat node/fightstyle system.  I wouldn't be able to answer detailed questions about the shipped code, sorry.

 

We didn't do the ports, but I think at the time the PS2 was considered very difficult to port to from PC.  I have no idea where the GameCube code is, I've never seen it in our depot.

[MGummelt]

My questions:

 

1. Why is the JKA Hazardtrooper bugged in a state of standing/crouching at the same time as eezstreet had discovered?

 

2. Was a JK4 ever planned, or was JKA supposed to be the last game in the series?

1. Sorry, no idea what this means...?

 

2. Not that I'm aware of - not at Raven anyway.

[MGummelt]

JK3*

Jedi Knight III: Brink of Darkness - google it

 

We should ask for possible images of this game.

Never heard of it.  Must have been an internal concept at LA.

[JaceSolarisVIII]

Maybe MGummelt could give EA Battlefront team some much needed advice on saber system building.

Words like..

 

Wasted talent

Needs to be involved in EA Battlefront 2

Ligtsabers not glow sticks

Under appreciated skills

 

Come to mind...

[Circa]

Keep this on topic, guys. Discussing other mods and games that he has no part of is silly.

[ensiform]

Hmm.  I have a hard time believing the game shipped with such an obvious bug.  Does the retail (patched or unpatched) version behave this way?  Or just the JKA source code when compiled?

This is comparing retail versions of both games to the best of my knowledge.

 

@@Grab can maybe chime in more which versions were verified during testing.

[mrwonko]

Nice to see you around here, I vaguely remember pestering you about releasing JA's source code a couple of years ago

[ensiform]

Maybe MGummelt could give EA Battlefront team some much needed advice on saber system building.

Words like..

 

Wasted talent

Needs to be involved in EA Battlefront 2

Ligtsabers not glow sticks

Under appreciated skills

 

Come to mind...

They aren't going to be consulted for EA's works at all.

[ensiform]

@@MGummelt, another question/observation would be with regards to the saber system in general.

 

I'm sure many others can chime in but, simply recompiling the originally released SDK (also linux vs windows) even will cause differences in blocks and damages, more ghosting (visual hits that aren't hits) supposedly according to many people in the game and mod communities.  I guess the problems might stem from different floating point precisions etc and the original codebase being super picky about values in the collision code and w_saber.c.  But nobody has ever really nailed down what the causes are.  And obviously, most people aren't going to want to use ancient compiler versions anymore, its not realistic.  Someone had asked earlier on Discord what computer specs were used to compile JKA for Windows anyway?  And this problem isn't exactly new.  It's been highly debated and contested for many years as far as pure basers won't even use mods because the feels are different even if the code remains the same.

[General Howard]

They aren't going to be consulted for EA's works at all.

Agreed. This isn't EA. EA are only the Publisher. DICE is the real one's behind the scenes, here. Although, DICE is now pretty much an EA subsidiary.

[ensiform]

Agreed. This isn't EA. EA are only the Publisher. DICE is the real one's behind the scenes, here. Although, DICE is now pretty much an EA subsidiary.

They have been (officially) since 2006 but worked with them before that.  And they started the process all the way back in 2004.

[Cerez]

@@MGummelt, I do have a specific question regarding the NPC waypointing system and ICARUS -- if you can help shed any light on this long bugging mystery:

 

Discussion thread: https://jkhub.org/topic/6594-walking-an-npc/

 

When assigning 3 waypoints, and giving an NPC the task of randomly walking between them in an endless loop, the walking behaviour sporadically breaks, with the NPC either changing direction midway, or walking to a waypoint, and then stopping.

 

 

 

rem ( "Random Walker Test Script" );

affect ( "walker", FLUSH )
{
	set ( "SET_WEAPON", "WP_NONE" );
	set ( "SET_PLAYER_TEAM", "TEAM_PLAYER" );
	set ( "SET_ENEMY_TEAM", "TEAM_ENEMY" );
	set ( "SET_BEHAVIOR_STATE", "BS_DEFAULT" );
	set ( "SET_CHASE_ENEMIES", "true" );
	set ( "SET_LOOK_FOR_ENEMIES", "true" );
	set ( "SET_IGNOREALERTS", "false" );
	set ( "SET_WALKING", "true" );
	set ( "SET_RUNNING", "false" );
	wait ( 4000.000 );
	loop ( -1.000 )
	{
		task ( "casualwalk" )
		{
			if ( random ( 0, 3 ) > 2 )
			{
				set ( "SET_NAVGOAL", "wpoint3" );
			}
			else ()
			{
				if ( random ( 0, 3 ) > 1 )
				{
					set ( "SET_NAVGOAL", "wpoint2" );
				}
				else ()
				{
					if ( random ( 0, 3 ) > 0 )
					{
						set ( "SET_NAVGOAL", "wpoint1" );
					}
				}
			}
		}
		do ( "casualwalk" );
		wait ( "casualwalk" );
		wait ( random ( 0, 4000 ) );
	}
}

 

 

What are the requirements for an NPC to be able to pick and follow a set of waypoints reliably? Do the waypoints need to be daisy chained ("targeted") to one another, or is it enough to define the movement behaviour in script? Do there need to be physical brushes (not just entities) for the waypoints? How does the waypointing system work (with ICARUS)?

 

Related, is there any way to increase the distance that NPCs are able to see waypoints from? The default distance seems to be rather short/limited.

 

On a side note (as trivia), who programmed ICARUS, and what language(s), if any, were used as the basis for it?

[Tempust85]

@@MGummelt

 

Would you happen to know if the .menu files were made by hand in a text editor, or the devs used a program?

[Wolfeye]

First of all, thank you! I don't think you can even possibly begin to understand how much our community as a whole appreciates a developer taking time to come talk to us, let alone answer all our questions. 

On that note, you say you designed the saber combat. I'm actually a writer for a database archiving.. well, everything focused around saber combat. So, naturally, I have about a thousand questions about specific combat elements. I'll do my best to restrain myself and only ask one question for now though.

I know this isn't a specific code question, but I did want to ask a sort of overall:

Were things like poking (turning to keep the saber in someone longer for extended damage), wiggling (exiting & re-entering the hitbox multiple times to cause more damage) and delays (basically interrupts in a swing to force it into a later stage) all in the plan, or completely unexpected exploits? I know they were somewhat present in JKO which makes me wonder if they were just anticipated and considered part of JKA when developed. Obviously the mantra goes that all these things are exploits that were discovered and abused, but I was curious if they were really exploits, or if the dev team had any knowledge of it prior and let it go, since it also wasn't fixed in the 1.01 patch.