Improving the Fun

gerbilOFdoom · March 31, 2014

What can we do to make the game more fun and replayable after all these years? In terms of Jedi Knight fans, what exactly *is* fun? Graphics? Immersive animations? Creative or nuanced game modes? Maps designed to cater to the game modes? Cool equipment? Cool force powers?

I really don't know exactly what the JK fanbase likes... but I do know what I really like about JK:

-Array of weapons, each with a role

-Force powers

-Saber vs. Stormtroopers

-No fancy targeting system that often targets the wrong thing

-Lugormod/Makermod (dat building/role play capability)

What I know others like:

-Saber duels

-Gamemodes (siege)

-Glorified-chatroomness

-Competition

What I propose for discussion is an expansion of the way basejka feels so that none of these fun elements are damaged. Some of my initial thoughts for things that would improve gameplay while keeping the original feel of the game intact:

-More game modes (Instagib, low gravity, fort wars,etc)

-Expanded dueling options (instagib pistol duel anyone?)

-Improved jetpacking as a combat-viable alternative to force jump

-Cloaking device that provides stand-still invisibility and moving camouflage

-Server-toggleable class-based gameplay mode & server-customizable classes

-Custom building a la makermod or lugormod

-Improved acrobatic movement (Jump -> wall run, etc) [Edited in]

Some backend improvements that might also be nice

-Server-to-client model/map transfer that is actually somewhat secure

-Expanded server browser filtering options

So, what do you think? How should basejka be expanded to improve replayability and *fun*?

mrwonko · March 31, 2014

I'd like to see an SP mod that changes the combat to something more like Devil May Cry. I guess The Force Unleashed is somewhat like that... Well I feel like that would be a fun new way to experience it.

minilogoguy18 · April 1, 2014

Meh, that system is terrible.

If only there were still good lugormod servers around, that could be played for hours without getting old, especially if the server had fresh maps often.

gerbilOFdoom · April 4, 2014

... I was hoping for more of a response lol

eezstreet · April 4, 2014

I think that what JKA needs is some decent level of replayability. Some of the most common methods I've seen involve randomized content, self-improvement, intense/enjoyable competition, and rewarding unlocks. Arguably, JA MP doesn't have really have any of these (except for Lugormod and the pro scene), but SP -sorta- does. And there are some things locked in the source code ("RMG" cvar) which, when unlocked, could contribute.

Although JAMP is a bit peculiar in how it seems to ignore most conventional logic.

MoonDog · April 8, 2014

A lot *could* be done with advanced entity modding on existing SP levels. I think this would be a major waste of time anyway though. You can put a hat on a pig, but it is still a pig.

Icarus is much too weak to script anything approaching good combat. Also, the waypoint/combat point system and AI is atrocious. Pretty much, SP is a wash in terms of revamping the shipped levels. Especially since the source map files are not/will not be in circulation.

When I played JKA, I loved alternate game modes like Siege and CTF. I was never "pro" at either, but I still had the most fun there.

I would definitely play again if I saw CTF expanded on and popularized. Fresh levels would be good too. Only if they are very well designed ASYMMETRICAL CTF levels. Many of the custom levels that claim to support CTF are very very very very shitty CTF maps. You can't just slap a couple of fucking flags in a level.

Omicron · April 8, 2014

A lot *could* be done with advanced entity modding on existing SP levels. I think this would be a major waste of time anyway though. You can put a hat on a pig, but it is still a pig.

Icarus is much too weak to script anything approaching good combat. Also, the waypoint/combat point system and AI is atrocious. Pretty much, SP is a wash in terms of revamping the shipped levels. Especially since the source map files are not/will not be in circulation.

When I played JKA, I loved alternate game modes like Siege and CTF. I was never "pro" at either, but I still had the most fun there.

I would definitely play again if I saw CTF expanded on and popularized. Fresh levels would be good too. Only if they are very well designed ASYMMETRICAL CTF levels. Many of the custom levels that claim to support CTF are very very very very shitty CTF maps. You can't just slap a couple of fucking flags in a level.

Check out Tritoch's CTF maps, I think some are uploaded here, and they are used commonly by pug servers

Asgarath83 · April 8, 2014

I am a SP players. more of MP.

I think SP can have big potentialities. but need to unlock more functions possibles, so can be happy alls peoples. Also, the expansion shoul be free moddable, so can be adapted... like an advanced SDK set for making map anc custom mod, mission, tier etrc etc. so, every one that not have coding or modding competence can make every thing whant to does.

I think JKA need some imployement for New weapons and New Force Powers and a progression system like and RPG.

Seeem cools if it's possible to add force statis and paralysis, stunnig, invisibility with cloak device also in SP, and some new saber and wweapond command for SAB file and WEAPON.DAT for free customize the CLASS damage, for saber, and for weapons too. also, the ledge climb animation (i see that in the Serenity mod of @@Serenity937) and a poison function to add to weapons and saber. so enemy hieed by weapons and saber can be affected by poison like the interrogator droid touch or noghri stick. Stunning can lok NPC and player in the BOTH_COWER1 animation, and also the sonicpain attack of howler can be add to sabers and weapons. i know is possible the paralysissand freezing of enemis. but that's power is too strong. need to be balanced by a contro action of NPC, like FP_ABSORB or FP_PUSH or somethjing other can nullify the paralysis. also. a power for Hhealing the NPC, like the MP FP_teamheal power.

a blade with new command can make.

- poison \ burning gradual dmg. (in SAB file shoilbe available to setting how many HP left in one second... so it's possilbe to decidde how is strong the burning \ posion effect of a saber \ melee blade. )

- stunning function

- paralysiss function

- sonic stynning function. (it's like an AOE ATK, stun alla clients in the range of sonic detonation XDnot onluy a target, )

A rank 4 for all powers with an AOE version. so Push, Pull,. lightning, drain, etc can affected also enemy on the backs of players.

- a rpg game system.

-Classdamage differeentuial commands into SAB and weapons.dat file can allow to configure a weapon for be more deadly for dark or light side classes , like DEMP2 it's deadly for droid

- Casting shockwacve arttack by a saber using Kata move atk 1 + atk 2 that consume force point. At moment, shockwave attack can be done only with BounceoNwalls 1 , hittig walls with saber blades and with paramaters of splashradius, splashdamage and splashknockback setted into the sab file.

- More WP_SABER slots , for allowed to have more different sabers for a cjharacter. (max 10 sabers) NPC can randomly change the sabers into combat. so it's more immersive

- Idleinback saber function for melee blade on SP., like the JA++ code.

Jango40 · April 8, 2014

Like I've said before, more gamemodes would be very fun. I still remember MUG's epic creative gamemodes.

MoonDog · April 8, 2014

I got enough plant the bomb/Defend against bomb plant in Counter-Strike. Doesn't interest me in JKA.

eezstreet · April 9, 2014

Needs pools. Nothing more fun than a pool party.

minilogoguy18 · April 9, 2014

@@Asgarath83, lugormod adds an RPGish element as well as level 4 and 5 force powers. You just need to get away from SP, playing with others in JA especially is way more fun than by yourself.

Gradual or poison is already doable, look at the Noghri weapons.

MoonDog · April 9, 2014

@@Asgarath83, lugormod adds an RPGish element as well as level 4 and 5 force powers. You just need to get away from SP, playing with others in JA especially is way more fun than by yourself.

Gradual or poison is already doable, look at the Noghri weapons.

You bet your ass poison is doable.

Loop

//Generated by BehavEd

flush (  );
rem ( "This script is ran when the player spawns every time" );

loop ( -1.000 )
{
	rem ( "This loop sets their parm15 to timer2 and begins the poison loop" );
	wait ( 1000.000 );
	set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_PARM15", $get( FLOAT, "timer2")$ );

	if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_PARM3")$, $=$, $1$ )
	{
		rem ( "If the player triggered poisonactive, count down their HP" );

		if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $!$, $100$ )
		{

			if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $!$, $0$ )
			{

				if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $<$, $0$ )
				{
					set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", "0" );
				}


				else (  )
				{

					if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $90$ )
					{
						set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
						set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-1" );
						set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );
					}


					else (  )
					{

						if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $80$ )
						{
							set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
							set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-2" );
							set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );
						}


						else (  )
						{

							if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $70$ )
							{
								set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
								set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-3" );
								set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );
							}


							else (  )
							{

								if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $60$ )
								{
									set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
									set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-4" );
									set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );
								}


								else (  )
								{

									if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $50$ )
									{
										set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
										set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-5" );
										set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );

										else (  )
										{

											if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $40$ )
											{
												set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
												set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-6" );
												set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );

												else (  )
												{

													if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $30$ )
													{
														set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
														set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-7" );
														set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );

														else (  )
														{

															if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $20$ )
															{
																set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
																set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-7" );
																set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );

																else (  )
																{

																	if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $10$ )
																	{
																		set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
																		set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-8" );
																		set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );

																		else (  )
																		{

																			if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_HEALTH")$, $>$, $1$ )
																			{
																				set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_COUNT", $get( STRING, "SET_HEALTH")$ );
																				set ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$, "-10" );
																				set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_HEALTH", $get( FLOAT, "SET_COUNT")$ );
																			}

																		}

																	}

																}

															}

														}

													}

												}

											}

										}

									}

								}

							}

						}

					}

				}

			}

		}

	}

}

Deathscript

//Generated by BehavEd

rem ( "When the player dies this script runs on them" );
set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_PARM3", "0" );
rem ( "Clears their parm3 so when they respawn they arent poisoned again" );
set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_DEATHSCRIPT", "NULL" );
rem ( "Clears their deathscript so no script is ran when they die unless they are poisoned" );

Poisoner

//Generated by BehavEd

rem ( "This script poisons the player and should be in a target_scriptrunner" );
rem ( "make sure the scriptrunner is count -1 and spawnflags 1" );
rem ( "Make sure whatever you want as the delivery system targets the scriptrunner" );

if ( $get( FLOAT, "SET_PARM3")$, $!$, $1$ )
{
	rem ( "parm3 is the poison parameter on all players DONT TRY TO USE IT FOR SOMETHING ELSE" );
	set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_PARM3", "1" );
	rem ( "Sets the deathscript on the player so they are cleared of poison when they respawn" );
	set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_DEATHSCRIPT", "nopoison" );
}

Asgarath83 · April 9, 2014

Ahahaha, Tnanks for script, @@MoonDog!! Okay, i take poison and use in my ass ROTFL ahahahaha...

I agree Eez! Pool party! Everywhere!!! Maybe also in lava, too!

Asgarath83 · April 9, 2014

@@Asgarath83, lugormod adds an RPGish element as well as level 4 and 5 force powers. You just need to get away from SP, playing with others in JA especially is way more fun than by yourself.

Gradual or poison is already doable, look at the Noghri weapons.

Interessing. I download and try that mode ASAP.

minilogoguy18 · April 10, 2014

You don't need to download it, it's purely server side.

lil_binger · April 11, 2014

I'm thinking multiplayer co-op would be fun with the JK series. A big monster or evil guy that takes many players to defeat at the end of a co-op mp level. Some puzzles to figure out to get there and other enemies?

gerbilOFdoom · April 11, 2014

Well, multiplayer coop can kinda be done via Lugormod. I believe Jedi Knight Galaxies has a function for creating KOTOR style conversations although the documentation is rather lacking.

eezstreet · April 11, 2014

use teh convo tool

lil_binger · April 11, 2014

or maybe huttball?

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Improving the Fun

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