Teancum

Thanks! I really like using the Jedi Academy engine as a shooter only as well. I'm going to leave the lightsaber in, but only with cheat codes. I think that way everyone will be happy.

Updates:

• Sent samples of the Dark Forces level format, along with a link to the XL Engine source code to the author of 3D Object Converter. Hopefully with that plus my format documentation he/she will be able to write a plugin. If so I'll purchase a license so I can convert it to a common 3D format, export to .map in Blender, then dump it into GTKRadiant to get some more traction on this project.
• Send a DevianArt message to DarkStarMojo, who had level 7 totally complete and did extensive work on level 9. Whatever I get from him would be a massive increase in productivity. I don't expect to hear from him since very other way of contact I've tried has failed, but you never know.
• Just for fun, here are a few screenshots of level 8 with some VERY early lighting. I can't remember if any of them are actually new areas.

LEVEL 8 - ICE STATION BETA

Lastly, I was trying to come up with some sort of canon-ish way to present the fact that when you go up the elevator in the middle of level 7 that you're actually transitioning into a ship. In the original game it was hard to understand that. Since the hallways look Corellian, I thought I could use the Gozanti-class cruiser as the "ship" you're getting into. My thought is a more obvious "airlock" will help players to understand, and perhaps a schematic image on a monitor before you transition into the ship. Whatever it is, I don't want to add something ultra complex, but rather a simple solution so that we don't lose the essence of what it is. Here are some images of the Gozanti-class cruiser. I don't know for sure it has any of those Tantive IV-style white hallways, but it's Corellian, and it seems like it'd be the right dimensions. Thoughts on this idea?

Just curious, was the decision to go private simply to eliminate non-important clutter posts? I totally get private builds, but I don't entirely understand the private forum.

]Should we also really be keeping the mod so open for anyone to download at this point? Next thing you know stuff from our mod will end up in someones big mega pack or 50 something page WIP thread with no credit towards it's creators?

On the flipside having something tangible to share could possibly drum up some more interest. Two sides of a coin I guess.

Took things for a spin using regular OpenJK (since the compile is getting fixed for OpenDF2). Fun stuff. I would say that the levels felt dark, but then again I didn't adjust my brightness at all. The pacing is definitely different from Jedi Knight, but I like it. It gives something different that is still familiar. I didn't finish any particular level aside from the Yun fight, but I had a lot of fun.

Is it? Cool. I went through and documented how the verts and whatnot were arranged. It'd be much easier to actually outright write something.

This sort of thing just decays the JK modding community because no one learns to make anything.

I don't really get how. They're not rigged for JA so there's no free lunch here. They'd all have to be rigged to the JA skeleton. As for the JK modding community, there's no one left anyway ( www.massassi.net and www.jkhub.net ).

 

/badjoke

Yeah, we'll just have to see what happens.

Isn't this all a bit "cart before the horse?" I mean a first demo hasn't been released and all energies are being put into major rendering improvements. Seems like a lot of focus on tech that doesn't have the workforce behind it to utilize the improvements. Going all "Ghoul3" would mean a re-export of every model with all these optimizations. I mean I guess there's only so much that can be done when there's not a lot of interest in mapping.

 

Then again, I suppose that's the beauty of modding. There are no milestones -- you just work on what makes you happy.

Heh, it's funny to hear you say that. I still find the original game's architecture to be enough to envelop me into the game (except maybe a few major exterior scenes). I'm 37, so I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to not needing things to be ultra amazing looking to enjoy thoroughly. I'm not opposed to it, but I also don't have that kind of devotion and time. Levels 11 and 12 could totally reuse most of the original geometry and still be pretty convincing. Hopefully something turns out with 3D Object Converter so this can pick up some steam. Details can come later if someone else is interested.

So after having a dive into the source code dump of JKA and noticed widescreen code for Xbox, I figured hey! let's do widescreen support!

 

Now before anyone yells: zomg you ported illegal codez! No, I didn't. I've taken the idea of what was done for Xbox and applied it using a cvar. It's basically a long list of "if (cg_widescreen.integer)" all throughout cg_draw.

Would people get bent out of shape about something so small anyway? Seems trivial to worry about.

 

Regardless that's awesome. It's a much needed feature these days.

I'd hesitate to even say it's back on track. I don't want to make any commitments. I work on it occasionally, but I feel like I misled people into thinking this could actually get completed last time. Short of someone making a tool to physically convert the original Dark Forces levels for reference I don't see how it could. All of the programming issues I could (somewhat) easily tackle, and the community could handle any few remaining models that are left, but the maps, that's a HUGE bottleneck. I am going to send the original level files to the author of 3D Object Converter. If he can get them to load, the tool has the ability to export into multiple formats. From there I can scale to size and import, then rebuild things section by section, making life much simpler. It might not turn out quite as "Ultra HD" as the community might like, but I can physically build detail into areas, or use those areas as a reference and rebuild whole sections, or (worst case scenario) simply run the original geometry. I really don't want to just straight up port geometry, but at the same time I'm just one person. Having an incomplete-yet-completable game might spark interest from mappers outside the community to help.

Related question, I guess. The original mod promised you would hear "the original music exactly as the composer intended." I'm pretty sure I have this soundtrack, and it does sound like a much higher quality synth than what you hear in the original game. My question is... where does it come from? Did the team just run through original source material through better quality synthesizers, or what? I can't seem to find any details on this.

Pretty much this. I followed the mod rather religiously back in its prime. The audio was processed through what was then the highest quality software and sound card(s). The result were higher quality midis that had been processed to mp3s.

 

On a note related to the project I completely obliterated the entire top of level 7 (Ramses Hed), which was what I had added on from DarkStartMojo's work on the lower floor. I tinker with it now and again, but the goal is to return to something more true to the original level. Some of the mod's levels take a little license on adding extra geometry (particularly Gromas Mines and the Imperial Prison), but this level really should stay pretty true to the original. I don't see the need to do much more than add detail to the original elevations/hallways/rooms/etc.

 

I've reinstalled all my old tools and source to move forward, but it will always be at an incredibly slow pace. I was recently laid off from my job so I have free time until I find something new. I'll be lucky if I get level 7 redone and put the finishing touches on 8. I know I had my fair share of naysayers as far as directions I took, so I'll be taking their opinions into account. That being said I'll take opinions of those who assist with the mod more so.

@MGummelt, how did you guys handle offsetting weapon projectiles from center, I.E. a right handed weapon? I've tried creating a vector offset relative to the view vector, but the offset always ends up being from the world vector. I am working to recreate the Fusion Cutter from Dark Forces (see image below). Most of my relevant experimentation with the community's help his here: https://jkhub.org/topic/7581-vexing-vectors/

 

Falling ship could be created at the correct angles (not tipped over), then the .map opened in Blender, rotated, and re-imported. After that you could add all the entities, NPCs, etc. That might help with faceting and other issues that GtkRadiant has. Probably should test that on a smaller scale, though.

 

As far as attention to mapping goes, has anyone reached out to other communities who have mappers familiar with Radiant? The mapping process itself is pretty much universal across several Q3 engine games and even a few other engines alike.

@MGummelt -- Were you involved with X-Men Legends or Marvel: Ultimate Alliance in any way? We have a team of modders over at marvelmods.com who could use a Raven employee's expertise.

 

Back on topic, any idea why it was JO/JA were never released for PS2, but made it to GameCube/Xbox? Is the GameCube source code still out there somewhere?

I have been following the DF conversion mod since its conception, I think 2003.

 

What is it going to take to get the mod "complete," even if "complete" just means being able to go through rough versions of all the levels with proper cutscenes and music?

A truckload of mapping work. The rest is beans compared to the probably 150+ man-hours of mapping work needed (as an extremely low estimate). Trouble is nobody is interesting in mapping.

 

Right now modders are focused on the DFII mod as opposed to the original Dark Forces. As for what it would take to get stuff finished, honestly it's probably mappers mostly and a few new models here and there. In my opinion the recent take on the DFMod went way off course. If only there was access to what the second team did with the DFMod. I don't know if anyone ever tried to reach DarkStarMojo for the stuff he and his team did.

Trouble is there wasn't really a course left to go on. I was sort of flying wherever the wind took me as I was still learning the engine. I did try several times to contact DarkStarMojo in several ways. I even went so far as to get a Facebook friend invite from the original team leader who then tried to introduce me to DarkStarMojo through Facebook, but he never responded.

 

Honestly no major-work mod has a chance of surviving this late in the game's life. I love the dedication of the team from the DF2 mod, but even then we're talking way over 20 levels. Neither mod will ever fully see the light of day. That's the reality, though I wish it weren't.

Man, I hadn't considered the falling ship level. That one is going to suck. I wonder if you can rotate an entire level after having it mostly complete. Dealing with those angles the entire time in Radiant wouldn't be fun, but complex geometry might crash the editor. Still, that's a really long way off, so best not to worry about it now.

On the subject of a roadmap, what levels have work done on them? I.E. is level 3 (Sulon) in progress at all? Are there updated textures for it? Just trying to get an idea as to where work would be needed. My company just downsized the office space so many of us work from home now. That being said I *might* have a bit more time.

 

In reality if I do JA modding I want to finish up levels 7-8 for the Dark Forces project, but I'd be willing to trade up some work in exchange for taking on a level for JK. I'm not the greatest mapper, but at minimum I can lay all the bones out.

Heh, that's my #1 issue with idTech3/Q3 engine and all its spinoffs -- the lighting. Well, that and level creation is a pain.

The idea of seeing Zeb in-game would be amazing. So far no game has covered him, so we can't even steal some sort of conversion.

It's been a while since a WIP was seen from you, looks like the wait was worth it!

He's been working on Gorc for the Dark Forces II project for some time.

As far as coding is concerned, it wouldn't be difficult to add a victory taunt. We could even have it call an existing flourish animation for jedi characters so that we have backwards compatibility.

Okay, that's super awesome. I totally dig that.

I can. I must have played Jedi Knight 100 times through.