Story Changes

[therfiles]

Hey guys!

 

I wanted some feedback from y'all (Southern college...) on the Base JKA campaign. Which elements of the story would you like to see changed? Nothing is off the table. Feel free to discuss the overall plot, specific characters and missions, or the player's objectives. Anything that takes away from the experience of the SP campaign. Also, if you've got an idea for a change, please post it!

[eezstreet]

There isn't any one particular problem with the story that can be fixed easily. Instead let me try and break down what was wrong with JKA's plot;

• Zero motivation behind the main antagonist of the story. We're told that they're evil because "reasons." There's no underlying motivation other than maybe power, but that's not explicit.
• Luke and Kyle are written as (basically) the same character, and so is Rosh and Jaden. You only notice how annoying Rosh is because of his voice actor and because he serves no real purpose in the plot other than to be a nuisance. But really when you look at their dialogue, they're basically the same character. They're both an overly ambitious student, only one is seen as a bumbling idiot and the other is a success. If you ask me, one way to fix this is to make Rosh become jealous of Jaden. Give him a reason to go to the dark side, other than...well, no reason at all.
• The missions are only loosely connected to each other. Why again are we on Tatooine for two missions? The storyline is incredibly incoherent.

[Artorias]

The problem is that you have no real proper story at all.

 

 

J.K.A Plot:

 

Introduction: Student A and B are on a ship. They meet each other. Student A is shown to be a wonder kid, who had built his own lightsaber, developed force powers, etc etc - And is capable of using said lightsaber, all without any training. Student B is from the start annoying(Voice actor), seems to be a bit "That is so awesome! I wanna do all that good stuff!", etc.

 

Que trouble and villian introduction. Good ole Stormtroopers, the introduction of the villians, etc.

 

Then the rest of the game is mission based. The missions consist of: Go X. Just go through a map and kill. Then level up. It is just, boring. A few vague cutscenes here and there.

 

As you progress through the game, then you get a few missions to "Areas of Force energy", which is just a repeat of the above with a added bonus of a cutscene showing energy being stolen/This is trouble/Etc. Generic things that just seem to be there just for the sake of being there. It adds no depth to the story.

 

Then Student B, Student A's "Rival", goes to the Dark Side because, lulz. Then it becomes apparent he is under a bit of mind control. Then we have the choice of killing him/Dark side, or light side/Don't kill him. Then Boss battle, game over.

 

So. A bunch of random battles everywhere. No character development. No plot development. What I can get from what the villians goal was to:

 

*Ressurect Ragnos(Ancient Sith Lord)

*Rule at his side, Destroy the Jedi, take over the Galaxy.

 

But as stressed above, the Missions are incoherent. They do not mesh. The few cutscenes we have do not develop any character development. There are no twists and turns, no enjoyable story. It is just go here, kill X, "Sprinkle some vague plot pieces".

===================

 

After I played the game, I still had to ask: Who is Jaden? Why did he do what he did? Why did Rosh do what he did? Who is Rosh? What are they? --- They have no substance. Nothing tangible.

[therfiles]

Incredible thoughts, guys!

 

So how can we spice up the relationships between these characters? It seemed like Kyle's motivation in JKO was two-fold: to stop Desann from abusing the Valley of the Jedi...and just being evil and killing all the Jedi, and also rescuing his love: Jan. (Sorry if that's off...It's been a while since I've played good ol' Outcast).

 

What can we do to give JKA a similar dimension? Perhaps make Tavion more vengeful towards Kyle after slaughtering her master? That might help characterize Kyle a bit better. Also...who the crap is Alora? There's a lot we can do with that character...because there really isn't much there. Rosh certainly needs to be re-skinned and re-voiced. Perhaps Rosh could be a Sith agent all along?

 

The mission style of JKA is really what makes it unique. I think the idea behind it is clever. It's not trying to be JKO. It's trying to be a Jedi training-mission game. It kinda works. But we never see Jaden fail, or grow, or learn from these missions. There's not really any "moral" or take-away from a mission, and if there is, it's just a bit of forced exposition from Kyle and Luke.

[Artorias]

1: Redoe Rosh and Jaden. I recall some of the older Star Wars books of a young Anakin and his rivilaries with his fellow students at the Temple / Obi Wan Kenobi when he was young and in the Temple. Have them be in some sort of conflict. Or, a strong friendship wherein one is pulled towards the Darkness(Anakin/Obi Wan sort of role.)

-Perhaps do away with Rosh entirely. A interesting thing would be to remove the "Gifted genius" from the beginning, and make Jaden somewhat of a generic student who develops into a strong warrior/Jedi later on.

 

---A mixture of Missions and set maps would be interesting. It could start with Kyle taking his apprentice to X to resolve Diplomatic/Trade/This or that. Throw in some Jedi philosophy, try to incorporate morale lessons/Etc. Showcase the development of a actual relationship. Emotions.

 

 

 

Enemies: Cult is fine. Look a bit into the Silent Hill mythos, and make the cult in JKA more of a, actual cult. That evil feeling. Spookiness. I rather dislike the idea of "Stealing Force Energy." - Instead, perhaps a protracted campaign to destroy the New Republic/Dark Ritual/Human sacrifice(Kyle/Jadens best friend Rosh?) ---

 

--------The "Jedi Training game" sounds a bit fine as a general introduction. But it does not feel like it should be the whole game.

 

Perhaps there could be some sort of interactive dialogue system such as KOTOR had, so you could choose multiple routes forward/multiple endings to one mission. Which would allow you to add a morality system in, which could determine the ending...

 

=======

 

Plot itself? Perhaps a intro where you are Kyle, and you discover Jaden upon Coruscant. Perhaps he is a member of a street gang? Pod racing? Etc.

 

 

Mehh. A few main maps that are interactive, you can do things(Pazaak/Swoop racing?), sub plots, etc. Then the rest of the actual plot/game is mission based. Or things.

 

 

Some ideas.

 

 

 

 

Also. Space Battles.

[Onysfx]

New voicing for Jaden altogether. Would add a lot of flexibility.

[hleV]

IMHO there shouldn't be much if any changes to the story. At least personally I don't think I would like re-living the story if I know that it has fanfiction-ish changes applied to it. Perhaps I would like them, but my inner conciousness will reject any changes knowing they're artificial. 

 

[eezstreet]

What worked with JK2 is very simple- a straightforward storyline, albeit one that is well put together with good dialogue. Kyle is motivated by revenge, plain and simple. There aren't any major WTF moments in the story. It all makes sense.

[Archangel35757]

I guess what I didn't like about the JKA story was the the lack thereof... no story.  I don't like the idea of Jaden already having built his own lightsaber without any force training.  I think there should be a mod so that you have to construct you lightsaber from parts (where you have a work-bench KOTOR style or similar); have some earlier character development missions between Jaden and Rosh where they're taken on missions by Kyle Katarn (or other instructors) to find parts, crystals etc. to construct their sabers... this is where Rosh (being too competitive) could develop jealousy, animosity towards Jaden.  Redo the Rosh model and voice acting. 

 

Also, from one of the EU books... wasn't the spirit of Exar Khun on Yavin IV?  Thus the reason for the darkside around/within one of those Masassi temples?  Perhaps Rosh fails his "Cave moment" test and is thus tempted by the Spirit of Exar Khun???

[Wasa]

Just don't over use the EU(like JKA did horribly with Marka Ragnos...), and try to be creative Rosh could've fallen to the dark side from his envious nature. I honestly would consider re-writing Jaden because he's just a massive mary/gary stu with creating the lightsaber without any Jedi's Guidance(which wasn't even correctly answered in the plot if I remember rigt).

[Artorias]

Mary Su characters can be very good if done right. (Looking at KOTOR series here.)

[Wasa]

Mary Su characters can be very good if done right. (Looking at KOTOR series here.)

KotoR II? Yes, KotoR I? Honestly it wasn't as many people say, the idea behind Revan was great, but the excecution was horrible in my opinion. Raiden from Metal Gear Rising or even The Doctor from Doctor Who on the other hand were greatly written into the story so it worked, same with The Exile.

[afi]

I just had this idea: I think the story/missions would be already more satisfying if the mission selections were not just some menus. Imagine having the actual academy building as a map (like in JKO) where you have to talk to people to get new missions. And you could even have missions in the building itself.

The academy is supposed to be an important part of the students lifes but you only really see it in cutscenes. So changing that would give you more of the academy/student perspective. The feeling being a part of a group and sharing a home with other students.

[therfiles]

Interesting idea! There could be Jedi Masters you can talk to (an train with) to level up your abilities as well, rather than just arbitrarily leveling up per mission.

[Ramikad]

IMO it's a good idea, and perfectly doable, considering that JA supports hub maps.

 

Also... blueprints!

 

http://deeplyobsessed.blogspot.it/2015/08/yavin-base.html

[therfiles]

Yeah...the main tricky part would be figuring out how to weave that idea in with an actual story-line. I think a good start would be coming up with a much more compelling villain, with an epic plot, and maybe like 2 just as interesting henchman (ex: Desann, Galak, and Tavion). Or...It would be some what interesting if we used outside forces like the Yuuzhan Vong to motivate the plot.

 

It would make sense if Jaden had some connection to the main villain as well.

[afi]

The main reason for doing the missions is to find information about the sith cult. The idea behind that is not bad but the problem is that the missions don't really have much to do with that (except for the hoth, vjun, taspir and korriban levels). Same thing with Rosh joining the dark side. It's a good idea to bring emotions into the game. Problem is that no one cared for Rosh in the first place.

I think introducing completely new main characters might be too much. But having a couple more encounters with the existing enemies (Alora, Tavion, Rosh(?)) could definitely help the story.

[MagSul]

I just had this idea: I think the story/missions would be already more satisfying if the mission selections were not just some menus. Imagine having the actual academy building as a map (like in JKO) where you have to talk to people to get new missions. And you could even have missions in the building itself.

The academy is supposed to be an important part of the students lifes but you only really see it in cutscenes. So changing that would give you more of the academy/student perspective. The feeling being a part of a group and sharing a home with other students.

 

 

The most disappointing aspect of the JA:SP experience (for me) was clicking the option to return to the academy after four missions and then not actually getting to walk around it. I had hoped that after the cutscene, I would be able to walk from the main hall down to the hangar. While doing so, I expected to be able to have a few exchanges with other padawan learners or jedi knights. Perhaps a quick training spar here or there, or the opportunity to catch up with how Rosh was getting on (similarly to the t1_inter mission where Rosh speaks to the generic jedi.) Perhaps even meet Jan Ors who happens to be nearby the Raven's Claw, or C-3PO. It would give you a bit of a break before embarking on your next mission, get to know characters so you cared when things happened later on. I didn't mind the menu style, but I feel it would have been better to have been able to access that menu from the strategy centre.

 

I wasn't too fussed that not all of the missions drove the over-arching plot forward, especially as a maximum of three are entirely optional! I think breaks away from that to focus on actually just being a Jedi out in the galaxy are a good thing and I wouldn't want to change that myself.

 

(Related to the post about blue-prints, I found this handy image while looking for a picture of the strategy centre! Link)

 

Moving onto particular characters, they all have that air of missed opportunities about them but none stick out more to me than Alora. Where did she come from in the time between Outcast and Academy? There's only a two year difference between the two stories. All right, so we learn Tavion has a scepter and can imbue her followers. Did Alora go through that? If she had lived, would she have lost her power like Tavion's other followers? She's killed off as quickly as she's introduced, and this is the main antagonist's apprentice? I'm still surprised that we only have the two confrontations with her. She could have easily made an appearance at the end of other missions, like the one with the jedi tomb, for example.

 

Rosh goes without saying, of course. At the very least, I'd have liked for him to be included a little more in your missions. You have missions alongside Kyle and Chewbacca of all people, but not alongside Rosh. I think that's a great shame. That would be my ultimate suggestion for him. It's hard to think of him as a friend when I only see him in a formal setting along with every other resident of the jedi temple.

[afi]

If porting from JKO to JKA is allowed, would it be okay to base the academy level on the decompiled JKO academy map?

[eezstreet]

Sure, I don't see why not. There's stuff missing from there that shows up in JKA though.

[Artorias]

I recall the Developers approved porting between both games.

[afi]

Yes porting is allowed but decompiling is always something different to me

[Guest Redemption]

Since DF2:JK was about an Inquisitor seeking out the fabled "Valley of the Jedi" and the sequel JK2:JO was a progression of this; having accomplished that goal and then exploiting it by imbueing soldiers with the force... For JK:JA or for even brainstorming a JK2 sequel. How about going for the main villain in charge of the Empire Reborn movement?   

 

Lord Hethrir

 

Replace Alora with Tavion, have Tavion be apprenticed to Hethrir after running away from Kyle at Bespin in JO. This time around instead of letting her go, you kill her.(she never took the hint)

 

Story-wise, I think having Hethrir involved would be interesting as he was Lord Vaders apprentice. A villain which becomes a very personal adversary to Luke Skywalker. Have him send saboteur's to terrorize the galaxy; bomb the academy, killing students destroying everything that Luke holds dear. Testing  Luke to the limit, forcing him to act. 

[Kualan]

For any major character replacements, we would need a voice actor with both the time (and more importantly, the talent) to record the large amount of dialogue for the character in question.

 

Granted, we're not talking Skyrim-quanities of voice acting - but it's still worth noting that the more major the character, the larger the commitment needed from the potential VA.

[afi]

We should be realistic guys. This mod will never be released with tasks like that (rewriting the whole story, implementing new main characters etc). Even though the ideas are good and interesting, it's just not realistic for our small community. We should work with what've got from JK2 and JKA and try to make the best out of it.