level Level 1: Nar shaddaa

[MoonDog]

I agree that great gameplay/combat.

Though I also think accuracy is important for recreating the maps too.

 

The one thing I'm wondering about is if DT85 has considered the gunplay in JA? Because it sucks. I didn't like it in JK either and would just use codes to give myself the saber first thing.

 

 

 

Awwww, but that was one of the things DF2 did well. Actually getting the saber when you went to your fathers home felt like a big deal. They tried to do something similar in Outcast but it didn't have near the same feel. It kind of just felt matter of fact.

 

 

"Well, here's your puzzles now here is a saber."

[therfiles]

The primary concern when planning a SP level is gameplay beyond all other considerations. They are not just important aspects, but the most important. Block out the level with the simplest shapes and textures possible and get gameplay in there immediately. You never go the other way around. You'll end up having to make a lot of adjustments to complex geometry when something doesn't work out. Plus, as you brainstorm and sell yourself on new ideas and iterations of combat you may find ways in which you want an area to play out in an alternative manner.

 

Everyone's got a different approach when it comes to level design. There is no right way to do it, it's truly up to the mapper. There are pros and cons to my method and yours. It really just comes down to preference and whatever keeps the creator motivated. And maybe in a professional setting your method would be superior, but motivation is fueled by what interests the level designer, so those design aspects may be what motivates the modder. Make sense?

[Circa]

I agree. Getting the saber made a lot more sense with timing in DF2. Outcast was all about revenge, which is fine, but wasn't as impactful.

[MoonDog]

I agree. Getting the saber made a lot more sense with timing in DF2. Outcast was all about revenge, which is fine, but wasn't as impactful.

 

 

That whole part of the story line felt dry. When they "killed" Jan I as the player didn't care about it at all. It had no emotional drive because they hardly did anything to show players the emotional value of the character. She bordered on annoying back ground noise almost. So that whole build up to Kyle's decision to become a Jedi felt forced and unbelievable. Definitely not a great story telling mechanic they developed there.

 

 

 

Everyone's got a different approach when it comes to level design. There is no right way to do it, it's truly up to the mapper. There are pros and cons to my method and yours. It really just comes down to preference and whatever keeps the creator motivated. And maybe in a professional setting your method would be superior, but motivation is fueled by what interests the level designer, so those design aspects may be what motivates the modder. Make sense?

 

 

We're never going to agree on this, I can see that. I've made a ton of mistakes in developing my own process, some of them fatal to whatever I had been working on at the time. Others less so. I've evolved my theories, methods and lines of thought on design in a very drastic manner to get to where I am and where I'm going.

 

I can say 100 percent though that skipping over the necessities of the design process perches your projects precariously on a ledge of failure. Each time you force on without heeding a good process it teeters further. If you have happy accidents it could work out, but it rarely does. Gameplay drives everything else, so as a level designer it's the first thing you should focus on. Believe me, I've learned that the hard way.

[Tempust85]

Maybe I should point out that this is my first proper map lol. I'm learning ALOT of things by doing narshadda this way, and I probably will do things differently on the next map to be alot more efficient. If the first level is crap due to poor gameplay, then I'll start again and I'll know better next time. 

 

Now NPC placement will be done better than in DF2. Theres:

 

- rodian blaster rifle

- rodian sniper (not that you can obtain the weapon, made sure of that for this level),

- gran bomber

- gran blaster rifle

- gran boxer (going to add barricade's skin for this)

- human merc blaster rifle (still need to make a few varients and remove JKA-specific voice sounds)

 

For player weapons, theres:

 

- fists (last ditch if you manage to run out of ammo)

- bryar pistol

- blaster rifle

- thermal detonators

 

I'm toying with the idea of having weequay with bowcasters, but that would also mean the player would use it as well via pickup from the enemy. Thoughts?

[therfiles]

Hmmm...maybe edit the weapon's entry in items.dat? I've tweaked this before, but that was a long time ago. Something that gives the gun to the NPC, but when the player gets the item it doesn't route to the gun itself. May not work...

 

Also, maybe you could make it so every NPC has a deathscript that sets the weapon to NONE, which should effectively make them drop no weapon. This again is hypothetical...Hope it works lol!

[Tempust85]

I do want the player to have the bowcaster, so I would need a non-permanent solution. I'll check out the deathscript thanks.

 

Btw, can you assign "deathscript" to an NPC's entity object in radiant like you can with "spawnscript" ?

[eezstreet]

You can remove weapon drops in TossClientItems. See how MP did it for bryar pistol and saber.

 

EDIT: And to answer your question, yes, that's how you do it.

[therfiles]

 And to answer your question, yes, that's how you do it.

 

Right on the money.

 

I never thought about coding it...that would probably work better

[MoonDog]

Bowcasters are pure energy weapons right? Maybe the few(few(few)) enemies you spawn with bowcasters would have a killswitch rigged up so that their pure energy weapon(bowcaster) would  explode upon their death. I'd do that if I were a space criminal sort. Be an interesting little danger mechanic to add to bowcaster carrying mercenary types. Maybe instead of a plain old explosion you could have it send off a bunch of the ricocheting shots. 

 

I'd have no idea how'd you go about coding that though. Since you don't want all enemies that wield bowcasters to do that you could restrict that to a certain npc class you'd use until you introduce the bowcaster to the players inventory.

[Tempust85]

Thanks, eezstreet I just added the weapons I don't want to be dropped by NPCs to:

 

	else if ( weapon == WP_STUN_BATON
		|| weapon == WP_MELEE)
	{//never drop these
	}

 

Works great, and I left out the explosives so they will still drop.

 

 

Hmm, shall I add in NPCs with the repeater in the first level?

[katanamaru]

Give it a shot. When you play test it you can decide to keep them or not.

 

Will the guns behave like they did in JA for the player? I'd consider speeding up the projectile.

[Tempust85]

Most likely. Now things concerning this level:

 

- The area just before where you find 8t88 looked too WTF for me, so I'm redesigning it to look more like a ship dock with MASSIVE doors (like JO's starpad) that you have to go into the control room to open.

- It doesn't make sense to me that Kyle AND 8t88 do all this running around to get to 8t88's ship, so 8t88 will have an easier path which you will see from time to time as you play. I'll liken this to how you sometimes see G-Man walking at a distance in HL2.

- This won't be a straight "kill thugs and chase down 8t88", there will be keys to find and doors to unlock.

[MoonDog]

Now we're talking.

[Tempust85]

Ok so I spent this morning setting up the ending scripts. This is how it will basically go:

 

- You enter cargo docking area (where 8T88 has parked his ship)

- Realise the there's no other way to get to 8T88's ship than past those huge bay doors

- Kill the thug between you and the control room

- Head up to the control room via a lift

- Kill the operator in there and flip the switch to open the doors (you will notice 8T88 is walking to his ship at this point)

- Head back down and go through the doors and catch up to 8T88

 

Basic area (control room is behind the player):

 

 

You will notice that the objective has been updated in the screenshot. I have added in a custom objective that gets marked off on your datapad once you flip that switch. The objective reads "Find 8T88 and get back your father's disc!". And yes, that is the imperial protocol droid I'm using as a stand-in.

[Tempust85]

Decided to add a boss to this level, and I won't tell you where so good luck guys.

 

 

P.S It won't be as hard to kill as the ones in JK2 seeing as this is the first level but will still be a challenge enough.

[MagSul]

I should hope so seeing as we wouldn't have our lightsaber!

Not a bad idea. /amsupport!

[Tempust85]

I'll be making sure the player has grenades which work a treat.

 

It's also going to look a bit different, just finished with a quick reskin and surface offs.

 

Also I've made sure you can't progress until it's dead. hehehe!  <3 deathscripts.

[Futuza]

If only you had JKG thermal detonators...

[Tempust85]

Lol, JK2/JKA thermals do the trick. 2 hits dead-on with a cooked detonator and its down.

 

Update:

 

- You now need to kill the bartender for his key to get out of the bar through the staff exit as the public door is wrecked thanks to the thugs

- One sighting done of 8T88 as you play

- Reskin of the Mark1 is complete

- Playable map structure complete, just need to fix a few things up & add more details including light fixtures

- Lighting still needs to be done from beyond the bar lol

- Convert level 1 ending video where Kyle catches upto 8T88

- Need to add more ammo/shield/health placements

[MoonDog]

You could make a logic puzzle for beating the boss. People love logic puzzles.

[Tempust85]

I don't think I'm that good with scripting lol.

[Futuza]

Something simple would even be good.  Boss is shielded and invincible until you break 4 power conduits or something like that.

[CaptainChar]

Nostalgia, nuff said, I can remember playing the original

[katanamaru]

I'm not sure if you should make the Bartender have to be killed. Kind of committing murder there.

There could be the key card where the blaster was originally. Or a button behind the bar to open the lock.