JK2 The Lost Mission

[eezstreet]

Would it not be possible to lock out the player movements but have the joystick movements then drive the crane?

Yes, but I'd prefer it if the +forward etc were just hardwired to the controls.

[Jedi_Mediator]

Yes, but I'd prefer it if the +forward etc were just hardwired to the controls.

Could you elaborate on this? I have a few ideas on how I might make a moving crate using triggers and scripts (have separate buttons for moving it left, right, forward, backward, etc.), but I would have no clue how to make the player movement controls (WASD or whatever the player is using) directly operate a crane. If this is what we want I will need some help, or we will need to ask someone else.

 

As for the crane puzzle unlocking the doors on the opposite side of the lift...did you know that the original devs put maglocks on those doors? That means that right now, the player can unlock the doors by slicing the locks with the lightsaber, if they come at them from the inside. They would see the maglocks if they accessed the doors using the lift (the same one that takes them up to the two-level control room).

 

Anyway, I've fixed all the issues you mentioned in your post--except for the ones I said I was waiting on, and the areaportal bug that I can't figure out. Do you think it's time to move on to the next stage of the project? What should we work on next?

[eezstreet]

Could you elaborate on this? I have a few ideas on how I might make a moving crate using triggers and scripts (have separate buttons for moving it left, right, forward, backward, etc.), but I would have no clue how to make the player movement controls (WASD or whatever the player is using) directly operate a crane. If this is what we want I will need some help, or we will need to ask someone else.

 

As for the crane puzzle unlocking the doors on the opposite side of the lift...did you know that the original devs put maglocks on those doors? That means that right now, the player can unlock the doors by slicing the locks with the lightsaber, if they come at them from the inside. They would see the maglocks if they accessed the doors using the lift (the same one that takes them up to the two-level control room).

 

Anyway, I've fixed all the issues you mentioned in your post--except for the ones I said I was waiting on, and the areaportal bug that I can't figure out. Do you think it's time to move on to the next stage of the project? What should we work on next?

Areaportalling is really a last-minute optimization, we don't have to worry about it right now. And yeah, I knew about the maglocks. It's a similar situation to ns_hideout I believe which has maglocks added so the player can navigate easier.

 

The player movement controlling the crane is something that I could write code for, but it's really not necessary. A much easier way to do it would be to make a grid. I have some ideas for scripting the crane puzzle without using any code.

[Jedi_Mediator]

Were you planning on doing the scripting for the crane, then, @@eezstreet? If so, feel free--it's one less task for me to tackle. What kind of crane do you think would work best for a room like this? Where should it be placed, and how should it function? I've brushed out an idea for one type of crane, but I'm having trouble seeing how it's going to fit, with the walkway supports getting in the way.

[eezstreet]

I could maybe do the crane, yeah.

I was thinking about ditching the supports and making a large crane with a magnet.

 

Basically, here's how it would work. The crane is mounted on the walls just below the ceiling via guide rails. The crane itself consists of a magnet device that is mounted in between two pairs of rails. When the crane moves left/right or forward/back, one set of rails moves in a direction. When the crane moves up/down, the magnet is lowered from a cylindrical housing positioned between the rails.

 

Easy way to visualize: make a peace sign with one hand, and then another. Using your hands, make a square. The magnet housing would be in this square.

 

So in order for this to work, there's going to need to be a few entities:

- two sets of rails, each pair being a func_static.

- magnet housing and the magnet itself - one func_static

- Four ref_tags representing the bounds of where the crane can move left/right/forward/back

 

I need to ask a few questions before I can think further:

- Should the crates be an equal size?

- They should stack in one block, correct?

[Jedi_Mediator]

I need to ask a few questions before I can think further:

- Should the crates be an equal size?

- They should stack in one block, correct?

 

-I don't think it's absolutely necessary to make all crates the same size, but I think it would make scripting their movements easier. After all, every moveable crate will have to be its own func_static.

-I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you asking whether they should all stack on top of each other when dropped on the cargo lift? My answer would be yes, that would be easiest.

 

I also have a question for you regarding Jedi Outcast scripting. In the past, I have only done scripting in Jedi Academy. I assumed that it would all work the same in JK2, since both games use ICARUS scripts. But I'm finding it difficult to debug the scripts I'm writing (right now I'm working on fixing the elevators). In JK3, I could enter the in-game command "developer 1", and the game would give a detailed readout of each and every script command that was executed (when a trigger is activated, when an entity moves, etc.). In JK2, the command gives me no such readouts, even though the scripts are clearly doing *something*.

 

Are there any console commands in JK2 that work the same as "developer 1" does in JK3? I work best when I can see exactly what my scripts are doing...

[eezstreet]

I can't find anything that suggests a difference immediately. Maybe you could try with my JK2 Enhanced alpha.

[Jedi_Mediator]

Okay, here are the changes I've made in recent days:

 

• Added full sound to the level, including room-specific ambient sounds and object sounds (beeping consoles, humming pipes, etc.) All doors now have full sound too (except those that have areaportal issues--for some reason the areaportal bug prevents them from making sound).
• A few texturing tweaks
• Added full functionality to the elevators
• Added detailing to the "drab room" that is accessed by the long corridor, after the player drops through the damaged floor section
• Made a prototype crane system, in case you want to begin scripting. I placed the crane in the exact middle of the stockpile room for now. There are a few differences right now from what you suggested initially. First, I made the magnet and the magnet housing two separate func_statics, since they will both need to move together during left/right/forward/back movement but the magnet will need to move independently of the housing when raising/lowering. Second, I haven't added any ref_tags yet, because I'm not sure how you want to use them. If we want a ref_tag for every possible position the crane could be in, we might exceed the entity limit very quickly. Because of this, I suggest using explicit coordinates in the move() commands instead (let me know if you need help with this--it does require some work in GTKRadiant to figure out the coordinates).

 

Also, I'm already seeing an issue with the crane system as it is now. The "support cylinder" connecting the magnet to the housing needs to be very long in order to lower the magnet far enough to pick up a crate. The result of this is that, when the crane is fully retracted, the support cylinder sticks up through the room above! We'll need to find some sort of workaround for this.

 

I'll send you the .map, the .bsp, and the scripts (which you'll obviously need for the elevators to function) so you can test and begin scripting whenever you want. The four func_statics are listed below, with their script_targetnames and starting coordinates.

 

• Magnet housing: magnet_housing (0 -3648 904)
• Magnet: magnet (0 -3648 828)
• Top rail: rail_top (0 -3648 984)
• Bottom rail: rail_bot (0 -3648 968)

[Archangel35757]

could you just use an texture image FX runner that would repesent a steel cable for lowering/raising crane magnet? (I don't really know what I'm talking about here-- just an educated guess).

[eezstreet]

 

Okay, here are the changes I've made in recent days:

 

• Added full sound to the level, including room-specific ambient sounds and object sounds (beeping consoles, humming pipes, etc.) All doors now have full sound too (except those that have areaportal issues--for some reason the areaportal bug prevents them from making sound).
• A few texturing tweaks
• Added full functionality to the elevators
• Added detailing to the "drab room" that is accessed by the long corridor, after the player drops through the damaged floor section
• Made a prototype crane system, in case you want to begin scripting. I placed the crane in the exact middle of the stockpile room for now. There are a few differences right now from what you suggested initially. First, I made the magnet and the magnet housing two separate func_statics, since they will both need to move together during left/right/forward/back movement but the magnet will need to move independently of the housing when raising/lowering. Second, I haven't added any ref_tags yet, because I'm not sure how you want to use them. If we want a ref_tag for every possible position the crane could be in, we might exceed the entity limit very quickly. Because of this, I suggest using explicit coordinates in the move() commands instead (let me know if you need help with this--it does require some work in GTKRadiant to figure out the coordinates).

 

Also, I'm already seeing an issue with the crane system as it is now. The "support cylinder" connecting the magnet to the housing needs to be very long in order to lower the magnet far enough to pick up a crate. The result of this is that, when the crane is fully retracted, the support cylinder sticks up through the room above! We'll need to find some sort of workaround for this.

 

I'll send you the .map, the .bsp, and the scripts (which you'll obviously need for the elevators to function) so you can test and begin scripting whenever you want. The four func_statics are listed below, with their script_targetnames and starting coordinates.

 

• Magnet housing: magnet_housing (0 -3648 904)
• Magnet: magnet (0 -3648 828)
• Top rail: rail_top (0 -3648 984)
• Bottom rail: rail_bot (0 -3648 968)

 

We still need a means of going from the pit duel area to cairn_reactor. Have you thought about how you're going to do this?

I can take a look at the .map file here soon.

I'm thinking that there should be a way to open the catwalk door via force push or something instead of jumping onto that narrow lip.

[Jedi_Mediator]

could you just use an texture image FX runner that would repesent a steel cable for lowering/raising crane magnet? (I don't really know what I'm talking about here-- just an educated guess).

 

That's actually a really interesting idea. It would allow us to "kill" each section of cable as it is retracted, so that none of it intrudes on the room above. The main issue I foresee is we would need a way to move the fx_runner around the room with scripts, so that it always stays aligned with the magnet. I don't know if JK2 supports that kind of manipulation of fx_runners. But we should definitely keep the idea in mind.

 

We still need a means of going from the pit duel area to cairn_reactor. Have you thought about how you're going to do this?

I can take a look at the .map file here soon.

I'm thinking that there should be a way to open the catwalk door via force push or something instead of jumping onto that narrow lip.

 

I will make that level transition the next thing I work on. As for the catwalk door--could you clarify which door you mean? Is it the door leading to the duel pit elevator? I'm still unclear how the player is supposed to get up to that catwalk. It seems the developers did not include any ways to access it, so we'll have to come up with something on our own.

[eezstreet]

The player can jump on top of the crates and with a Level 3 jump, can reach the catwalk. The player can't reach it with Level 2.

I meant the door in the main stockpile which has a switch next to it. It's kinda just floating on the side of the wall there. It leads (I believe) up to the crane controls.

 

An fx_runner being controlled by a script could maybe work, but it would require some new engine code. Should be doable though. But explain how it would work? You'd need specifically named segments on the .efx file. I can manipulate the end points of lines or change the size of efx through code.

[Archangel35757]

That's actually a really interesting idea. It would allow us to "kill" each section of cable as it is retracted, so that none of it intrudes on the room above. The main issue I foresee is we would need a way to move the fx_runner around the room with scripts, so that it always stays aligned with the magnet. I don't know if JK2 supports that kind of manipulation of fx_runners. But we should definitely keep the idea in mind.

 

 

 

I will make that level transition the next thing I work on. As for the catwalk door--could you clarify which door you mean? Is it the door leading to the duel pit elevator? I'm still unclear how the player is supposed to get up to that catwalk. It seems the developers did not include any ways to access it, so we'll have to come up with something on our own.

Hmmm... catwalk screams for an access ladder-- you could model a ladder and use the ladder brush and @@eezstreet could incorporate @@DT85's SoF2 ladder code from the DF2 repo... just a thought-- and a new feature!

[eezstreet]

Hmmm... catwalk screams for an access ladder-- you could model a ladder and use the ladder brush and @@eezstreet could incorporate @@DT85's SoF2 ladder code from the DF2 repo... just a thought-- and a new feature!

Not necessary and would be weird/out of place. The door beneath the catwalk is locked, the main point is that you're supposed to jump up to get around it.

[Archangel35757]

Not necessary and would be weird/out of place. The door beneath the catwalk is locked, the main point is that you're supposed to jump up to get around it.

then how would non-jedi reach the catwalk? If they can't, then the catwalk serves no real functional purpose...

[eezstreet]

then how would non-jedi reach the catwalk? If they can't, then the catwalk serves no real functional purpose...

They're not supposed to.

It's not even really a catwalk, so much as it is a walkway that overlooks a hallway.

[Archangel35757]

...a walkway, that no one can walk on, with a view no one can appreciate-- except powerful Jedi... My philosophy is that all architecture and structures should have a function/purpose... when stuff like this is out of place/unreachable by the Imperial personnel that built it-- it breaks the immersion experience. Imho.

[eezstreet]

There's two doors that lead to said walkway, one of which leads to the area the player needs to go.

[Jedi_Mediator]

I meant the door in the main stockpile which has a switch next to it. It's kinda just floating on the side of the wall there. It leads (I believe) up to the crane controls.

 

Stand on the nearest catwalk between the T-junctions and use force pull on the glowing red switch next to the door. It will cause a long metal plank to extend to the catwalk you're standing on. It seems that's how the developers intended the players to reach the crane controls. Jumping is not necessary.

 

I only figured this out because I saw lots of entities and connections around that door in Radiant, and wondered why. I was quite surprised to discover that the switch is actually activated by force pull. This mechanic doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though. I was thinking we could possibly have a moveable catwalk leading to the door, which has been retracted toward the ceiling (since the Imperials don't want the player to access the crane controls). The player could then use force pull on this retracted catwalk, causing it to fall back into place and allowing them to progress.

 

I also had an idea of how to do the level change. In the duel pit room, I could turn the highest beam (the one with all the lights on it) into a makeshift walkway and add a door on each end. One or both of these doors could lead to some kind of reactor maintenance hallway, and somewhere in the hallway we could include a broken grate, which the player could shoot and then enter. They would slide down a chute and find themselves in the reactor's interior--triggering the change to cairn_reactor.

[eezstreet]

The way you thought of it sounds almost exactly as I pictured it at first. I still think that there should maybe be locked doors leading out of the pit. cairn_dock2 has a put just like this one, I don't want them to be identical for obvious reasons, but it gives you an idea what I'm referring to.

 

I actually didn't know about that walkway. The way it is now seems fine, it's consistent with the movies (see: death star walkways) and the game uses similar switches in other areas.

[Jedi_Mediator]

Okay, I'll leave the extendable walkway as it is.

 

I've started laying down the brushwork for the reactor maintenance halls. Previously you mentioned something about an exit maze--do you think that's what we should use these halls for?

[Jedi_Mediator]

Preliminary shot of the reactor hallways. Nothing is complete yet, this is just to show the general concept and mood. Suggestions welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

[MagSul]

You've made a really nice atmosphere in that shot; I like it.

[McGroose]

The atmosphere there is terrific. Looks like the perfect place to mow down some Imperial Workers.

[Lancelot]

I really like the style of the whole map and what has been improved. Instead of just using the whole unfinished map as is, you just took the chance to enhance it and make it look like an actual part of the game.

I'm really looking foward to the release.

 

In my opinion, this map looks like something where a lightsaber would be out of place. I mean, this map has the potential to be something challenging, something where you don't have to rely on lightsabers or the force to get through.

Too bad Jedi Outcast has no stealth elements, because they would definitely fit into that kind of map.