The JKHUB Pass me around WIP topic

[MagSul]

Brightness and contrast was tinkered with to allow you to see a bit more. But here's a shot of that street extension! Lights and things will be played around with, and the other side of the street incorporated before I'm finished.

 

 

 

 

Will send finished version to Pande tonight.

[MagSul]

Sent to @@Pande

[Pande]

I just got this, sorry I've been really quite busy. I will do what I can, I may be interested in another go later if I can't do much. Looking forward to this!

 

edit:

 

How did this map even compile? Theres no structural hull around the street.. am I missing something?

 

edit2: I'm also missing:

 

jkhub_pma/seamless_pavement_1

 

Also, the entire map is under scale. It can't be fixed but needs to be scaled up by about 1.25 at least. I suggest instead of trying to fix it in the editor, we use scale on the final BSP.

 

-scale <N.N>

• Scales a compiled .bsp by the prescribed factor. For example, Q3Map2 -scale 0.25 will output a new .bsp that is 25% of the original .bsp's size, while Q3Map2 -scale 2.0 will output a new .bsp that is twice as large. Q3Map2 -scale outputs mapname_s.bsp in the "maps" directory. This switch is solitary, and allows for only the path to a compiled bsp (not .map, it should be noted) afterward.

 

Lastly, the majority of changes I will be making will be structural optomization and simplification of geometry, I have an idea for what I want to add visually to the map but I won't be doing that till I get all these errors sorted out.

[MagSul]

I just got this, sorry I've been really quite busy. I will do what I can, I may be interested in another go later if I can't do much. Looking forward to this!

 

edit:

 

How did this map even compile? Theres no structural hull around the street.. am I missing something?

 

edit2: I'm also missing:

 

jkhub_pma/seamless_pavement_1

 

Also, the entire map is under scale. It can't be fixed but needs to be scaled up by about 1.25 at least. I suggest instead of trying to fix it in the editor, we use scale on the final BSP.

I've sent you seamless_pavement_1, I must've accidentally deleted it when I removed the unused road texture. The map was compiled with a hull around the street and subway. I presumed that you'd follow on from an existing structure, so I removed it so that you wouldn't have to tinker with it to fit what you would be working on inside, as it was reasonably close-fitting. I figured it'd be simpler for you to quickly insert a new one, or, if you were building in an entirely separate area, you'd build one for your own construction regardless.

 

Sorry about the missing texture, I hold my hand up to that one.

[CaptainChar]

even though I am not participating in this, I am glad someone else had the same idea as me, I look forward to this one's completion

[Szico VII]

Just fix the small area, better than everyone else building too small

[CaptainChar]

when doing a collab, its best to establish a general scaling, or you could toss scaling out the window in this case, unless you want it to flow uniformly or evenly

[Szico VII]

Well, I think everyone pretty much assumed that the general scale would be...you know...TO SCALE. Meaning in proportion to real-life objects transposed to the in-game grid system

[Pande]

Just fix the small area, better than everyone else building too small

It's not a small area, the entire map is under scale. Every door, the chairs in the train (the train doors are even smaller, lol, half the player height). The stairs are sorta to scale though.

 

I'm in a bit of a pickle, rescaling the entire map would take ages but it seems to be really necessary. 

 

And yeah, @ omega, I blame whoever went first  

[Pande]

I'm afraid I've decided the map is just too fucked up and unplanned at this point to continue it. I'm have a large test coming up on Monday and won't have much time to work on it anyway. I will email it to the next person.

 

I would seriously suggest that you guys restart with a better idea of what you want to accomplish. The stark difference between this and the Map-Craft PMA is that the Map-Craft one was collaboratively discussed with like 20 posts a day on the forums, and the map was only built onto continuously. This one currently has two completely disconnected spaces that imply additional mapping of 6-8x the amount already there due to the fact that:

1) the gold room area has windows and is clearly high up, meaning you now have to make an area for it to look down onto and

2) the street is going to need finishing, it goes no where at the moment. A note to anyone designing streets in the future: always start at an end, not the middle. Think about how you want to obstruct or in any way end the street before you even start.

 

Sorry for the pessimism but I really think this is too far gone for repair. It has however really inspired me to create my mapping tutorials on efficient and realistic mapping, though I love the creativity I'm seeing in this map there are many many inefficient areas. This is not your fault, tutorials are lacking and some things are not even written down on the internet yet. 

[Delta_135]

I'm afraid I've decided the map is just too fucked up and unplanned at this point to continue it. I'm have a large test coming up on Monday and won't have much time to work on it anyway. I will email it to the next person.

 

I would seriously suggest that you guys restart with a better idea of what you want to accomplish. The stark difference between this and the Map-Craft PMA is that the Map-Craft one was collaboratively discussed with like 20 posts a day on the forums, and the map was only built onto continuously. This one currently has two completely disconnected spaces that imply additional mapping of 6-8x the amount already there due to the fact that:

1) the gold room area has windows and is clearly high up, meaning you now have to make an area for it to look down onto and

2) the street is going to need finishing, it goes no where at the moment. A note to anyone designing streets in the future: always start at an end, not the middle. Think about how you want to obstruct or in any way end the street before you even start.

 

well i just got the map but i won't be able to work on it today

so if we need to start over now might be a good time, but i'll leave that up to the other people in the collab 

if i don't hear anything i'll just start working on it 

(i guess i could try to fix the some of the scale(?))

 

EDIT: just took a look at the map and the only thing i can see that out of scale are the stairs from the subway up to the street

so they could just be remade 

Edited March 16, 2013 by Delta_135

[Szico VII]

Y, know there's always I (invert) which selects all brushes and then selection --> scale. Might work.

[MUG]

I don't get what the scale issues are. If anyone dares rescale my station or anything in it I will rape them to death, just saying.

[mrwonko]

I'm in a bit of a pickle, rescaling the entire map would take ages but it seems to be really necessary.

You know, if we'd done this in Blender it'd be much easier... *wink* *nudge*

I'm rather surprised that scale is an issue. I thought that scales would be common knowledge.

One of my maps was notoriously overscaled... It's not that simple, really. But then I suck at designing in general.

I don't get what the scale issues are. If anyone dares rescale my station or anything in it I will rape them to death, just saying.

Is there a dislike button, too?

[MUG]

Is there a dislike button, too?

But no, seriously, I meticulously made sure every little detail of that thing was the perfect size. I think what pande may not be realising is that most maps that people make are for some reason on a crazy giant scale relative to the player models, and that JKA has a giant collision hit box for players.

[eezstreet]

I think you're losing it man.

[MUG]

Frankly, I think people are being completely unreasonable. The idea with this project was for each person to create an area and for the next people to work out how they wanted to attach their own to it. The idea of having open ended streets being a serious problem which means the map is beyond rescue is frankly ridiculous, as the entire point of the project was to leave space for the other mappers to expand.

 

Equally, the idea that having a currently disconnected area with windows is a terrible problem which will result in the death of the map is completely delusional, as not only can window shaders be changed to a non-transparent one, or just have a small personal skybox/exterior area to prevent them having to overlook the map, we don't even know what the rest of the map will be like and whether that will even be a problem.

 

I hope the next guy in the line won't be so pessimistic and will actually do some mapping rather than just throwing in the towel and explaining how they are going to go write a tutorial about how not to map like the people before them. That's just needlessly insulting, we knew from the start that there were going to be mixed skill levels in this project, and that it will take some work towards the end of the project to round off the edges and make it all work as a complete map.

 

[/rant]

[eezstreet]

They're supposed to form a coherent map, not a hodgepodge of various scaled maps. The point that Pande is getting across is that there's no cohesion between the pieces. If he just saw your pieces as being out of scale, all it would have taken was a scale command.

Case in point: someone else added something like 20MB of textures to the map after doing their section.

[Pande]

Y, know there's always I (invert) which selects all brushes and then selection --> scale. Might work.

No, this puts the brushes of the train out of grid and can't be aligned without malform (1.25 scaling, which is what it needed. Any higher and it would be overscaled).

 

@ those asking about where the scale issues are, the issues are the train (too small, chairs are about .8 of normal and the door at back and front of train are .65 ish) and the street (entire street is too small, except maybe the lamps. Definitely the doors and the width of the street). The station is alright but only because it's large *enough* and doesn't have any distinguishing scale features. It should still be larger.

 

The stairs are actually the only thing to scale quite well, except their ceiling is too low.

[Pande]

But no, seriously, I meticulously made sure every little detail of that thing was the perfect size. I think what pande may not be realising is that most maps that people make are for some reason on a crazy giant scale relative to the player models, and that JKA has a giant collision hit box for players.

Heh, no, believe me I know scale I'm not comparing it to other maps, I'm comparing it to real life.

 

" as not only can window shaders be changed to a non-transparent one,"

 

I'm sorry what? Would it then not be a window? Yes.

 

My point was you completely throw believeability out the window if you have an area of a map that you can see out of into nothingness, or just sky. Imagine going up 12 floors in an elevator in San Francsico, looking out the window, and seeing this in all directions: 

 

http://www.windsim.com/images/sky/sky_107.bmp

 

The street thing poses a similar problem, you have to end the street in a good way that isn't glaringly obvious. Take a look at Szico's Verschnaight (sp).

 

I don't mean to harp on you guys for poor design or anything, I'm just don't want to see you guys disapointed when the end result is as Eezstreet describes. The point of a PMA is *not* to combine 12 different rooms from 12 different mappers. It's a discussed and planned space of however many rooms, detailed as much as possible by 12 mappers. 

 

Anyway, the bottom line is it's out of scale and something should be done soon about that before it goes too much farther.

[Akimoto]

Interesting idea. The difference in mapping skill couldn't be any more obvious.

[mrwonko]

Well, if there's going to be rescaling I suggest turning the parts in question to .ase, those rescale flawlessly, you just need to manually add some clip brushes.

[Jango40]

Judging from the station screenshots, the scale is good. OFC I haven't played it myself, it might look completely different from in-game perspective, but I don't see anything too small. However the street looks underscaled.

[Delta_135]

okay my plan so far is to use the big building under the gold room, put at one end of the street and use it to connect to the gold room via a elevator inside

just wondering if the previous mappers have any thing against it.

 

so far:

 

 

 

 

[exonimus]

Sorry guys, I only just got back from a short trip to Denmark which prevented me from checking the topic. I see Pande has raised an important issue that needs addressing. @@Delta_135 can you upload the current map+textures etc. to somewhere so I (and the other mappers involved) can have a look as to the seriousness of the problem?