What do you think new players think about Jedi Academy combat?

[Mizore]

I have done the following post on Reddit about how I would prefer The Fallen Order to be based on the lightsaber combat from Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast, and some believe that the Jedi Academy combat is clumsy and outdated. I agree that the graphics are outdated, but the combat is not clumsy.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/9j0gt5/i_would_like_the_fallen_order_to_be_based_on_the/

 

What is your opinion?

[Wasa]

The lightsaber vs lightsaber vanilla is pretty clumsy though, if not non-existant. It involves a lot of spamming and it doesn't really feel like sword fighting even between the Jedi. Fortunately, the mods fixed this.

[Mizore]

The lightsaber vs lightsaber vanilla is pretty clumsy though, if not non-existant. It involves a lot of spamming and it doesn't really feel like sword fighting even between the Jedi. Fortunately, the mods fixed this.

 

The combat in Jedi Academy does not look like the movies, but it is a game and has developed its own style, it does not have to be like in the movies. And it is not clumsy, because Jaden is quite acrobatic and you gain a lot of precision when using keyboard and mouse.

[Wasa]

The combat in Jedi Academy does not look like the movies, but it is a game and has developed its own style, it does not have to be like in the movies. And it is not clumsy, because Jaden is quite acrobatic and you gain a lot of precision when using keyboard and mouse.

It's still not fun especially in the higher difficulties, there's a reason why mods like Serenity Jedi Engine and MB2 are popular

[Mizore]

It's still not fun especially in the higher difficulties, there's a reason why mods like Serenity Jedi Engine and MB2 are popular

 

Yes it is fun, and also in high difficulties. In high difficulties you have to have finesse because you are more fragile but the enemies are not more resistant. The success of these mods is due to the multiplayer trend.

[Wasa]

Yes it is fun, and also in high difficulties. In high difficulties you have to have finesse because you are more fragile but the enemies are not more resistant. The success of these mods is due to the multiplayer trend.

Serenity Jedi Engine is a single-player mod.

[afi]

The singleplayer in JKA is pretty bad anyway

[Circa]

Topic moved to Jedi Knight Discussion forum.

[Mizore]

The singleplayer in JKA is pretty bad anyway

 

I disagree. I prefer Jedi Academy single player instead of the multiplayer, but that's not the point, but in both singleplayer and multiplayer Jedi Academy has one of the best melee combat in the games and not only in Star Wars games.

[the_raven]

From what I remember of when I just started playing the game, it was a bit confusing, but it felt pretty badass. The combos took time to get used to, but that's a common matter with any and all combo-based combat systems.

[syainkn]

I'm enjoying movie like lightsaber combat in my own JKA sp.
I nerfed few npcs with forbidding Heavy Form and decreased rank of jedimaster, rebornmasterstaff, reborn_staff, jedi_kdm1, jedi_tf1 so that they cannot use SABER TWIRL and BUTTERFLY KATA.
And I enjoy lightsaber combat by walking instead of running with modified lightsaber(.sab).
 
https://jkhub.org/topic/9286-how-can-i-use-soresu-form-iii-in-jka/
 
I've searched for movie like fighting because I thought I should play and admire lightsaber combat as a fan of Star wars in JKA.

 

https://youtu.be/QyxhQZ67dTc

[the_raven]

I've searched for movie like fighting because I thought I should play and admire lightsaber combat as a fan of Star wars in JKA.

https://youtu.be/QyxhQZ67dTc

Didn't OpenSaber or KotF or some other mod have movie-realistic saber combat?

[syainkn]

Didn't OpenSaber or KotF or some other mod have movie-realistic saber combat?

 

Although you use any mod, basic combat style is always running pattern. And in MP, I couldn't earn movie like feeling.

On the countary, [star wars movie duel 1 or 2] is similar to movie because its story is lightsaber combat in real star wars episode.

 

Anyway I've created my own pattern and modified established SP mods into my custom mods.  I am just enjoying jka with my own toy. It's no big deal.

[Noodle]

Although you use any mod, basic combat style is always running pattern. And in MP, I couldn't earn movie like feeling.

On the countary, [star wars movie duel 1 or 2] is similar to movie because its story is lightsaber combat in real star wars episode.

 

Anyway I've created my own pattern and modified established SP mods into my custom mods.  I am just enjoying jka with my own toy. It's no big deal.

 

It's pretty cool that you modded JA to be more to your own liking. Wish more people did that. 

[Langerd]

For me better lightsaber combat in some way was better in JK2. I like the stuff that Jk3 put in the game but most of the attacks are useless and they are more flashing rotating saber around without reason. Only jump attacks and w+c+mouse 1 for dual and staff works great.

 

But why i think Jedi Outcast was in some better? Combat was harder and enemies have better defense. It was harder because animation spamming doesnt work for red style. Not hiting your enemy with these attacks is huge risk. The same goes with other sabers.

 

In Jk3? There are plenty bugs in animation and it requires more spamming... and also there are some bullshit animations for enemies - reborn is laying on the floor. I use roll and want to stab (Because the animation of finishing stabbing enemy is trying to get up faster or evade attack by rolling on the floor ). What happens when i try to roll stab? He just roll to the left or to the right. And i am like - NANI!? But not his laying animation. He made the left or right roll animation like he was crouching.

 

But i love combat in Jedi Academy... even if it has flaws.

But it should have better saber defense mechanic and also less spamming animations.

[Mizore]

For me better lightsaber combat in some way was better in JK2. I like the stuff that Jk3 put in the game but most of the attacks are useless and they are more flashing rotating saber around without reason. Only jump attacks and w+c+mouse 1 for dual and staff works great.

 

But why i think Jedi Outcast was in some better? Combat was harder and enemies have better defense. It was harder because animation spamming doesnt work for red style. Not hiting your enemy with these attacks is huge risk. The same goes with other sabers.

 

In Jk3? There are plenty bugs in animation and it requires more spamming... and also there are some bullshit animations for enemies - reborn is laying on the floor. I use roll and want to stab (Because the animation of finishing stabbing enemy is trying to get up faster or evade attack by rolling on the floor ). What happens when i try to roll stab? He just roll to the left or to the right. And i am like - NANI!? But not his laying animation. He made the left or right roll animation like he was crouching.

 

But i love combat in Jedi Academy... even if it has flaws.

But it should have better saber defense mechanic and also less spamming animations.

 

What you comment I think are small details; my idea was not to compare Jedi Academy with Jedi Outcast, but to discuss whether the Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast combat would be a good basis for the new game Jedi: Fallen Order.

[Langerd]

What you comment I think are small details; my idea was not to compare Jedi Academy with Jedi Outcast, but to discuss whether the Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast combat would be a good basis for the new game Jedi: Fallen Order.

Ok..ey. You are right. Sometimes i am writing something without thinking too much.

 

 

I think with the post i said earlier. Yes it would be amazing game to add saber system . Specially whole mechanic of the saber combat. Angle of the swing and movement of the character depends of which movement keys we press and this gives sooo much variety for combat. 

I would copy paste everything and just fix some issues. Also I would add defense saber mechanic ala For Honor or even dark souls (but in this case just better). Jedi academy gives us huge amount of control.  

 

Also balancing the saber styles to make other players to use different style than red. It is overused making other styles forgotten in mp. With dismemberment on for SP other styles are useful but still - because of spamming red beats them all.

[Mizore]

I agree, I would take the Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast combat system but with some changes:

 

1) I would eliminate the red style, because given the characteristics of the lightsaber, it would be necessary to bet for the speed, nobody reasonable would reduce the speed when hit with the lightsaber.

 

2) Three styles available at any time: single, duals and staff. The single would be ideal against one lightsaber wielder. The duals would be suitable against gunners and the staff or duals together would be suitable against several melee enemies.

 

3) Manual button to block at the right time, both for melee attacks and range attacks.

 

4) Greater speed for combat, think of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance: I am not in favor of reducing speed to resemble the old trilogy: if Darth Vader and Obi Wan move slowly, it is because the actors were older but that does not fit in a game. Besides Star Wars technology is advanced, automatic and projectile weapons at high speed are generalized and the Jedi can increase their attributes with the Force, they should move like blur in battlefield.

[Xioth]

I agree, I would take the Jedi Academy / Jedi Outcast combat system but with some changes:

 

1) I would eliminate the red style, because given the characteristics of the lightsaber, it would be necessary to bet for the speed, nobody reasonable would reduce the speed when hit with the lightsaber.

 

2) Three styles available at any time: single, duals and staff. The single would be ideal against one lightsaber wielder. The duals would be suitable against gunners and the staff or duals together would be suitable against several melee enemies.

 

3) Manual button to block at the right time, both for melee attacks and range attacks.

 

4) Greater speed for combat, think of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance: I am not in favor of reducing speed to resemble the old trilogy: if Darth Vader and Obi Wan move slowly, it is because the actors were older but that does not fit in a game. Besides Star Wars technology is advanced, automatic and projectile weapons at high speed are generalized and the Jedi can increase their attributes with the Force, they should move like blur in battlefield.

You'd eliminate the style I primarily use.

 

Also, we've been over this whole Jedi Academy vs Metal Gear Rising thing, let's not do it again, lol.

 

They did do Jedi Academy with much faster speed, it's called "Blade Symphony". It's cool but I still prefer the methodical approach of Jedi Academy.

 

We don't want blur-moving Jedi in a gaming medium, we just want it to look like it does in the movies, and shows, and this is the closest it's ever gotten to that, sometimes it's even better and more exhilarating then watching Obi-Wan vs Maul. There's alot that goes into the COMBAT of this game that other games don't have, I prefer the combat in this game because of the unpredictability of it, you're so close to death with every strike.

 

It's like, for example, let's bring this up for a second, do you want Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice, Gods Eater Burst, just because they're much faster and look a lot cooler, or do you want Monster Hunter? (Though to be fair Gods Eater Burst was incredibly fun)

 

Maybe I'm wrong but most people would prefer Monster Hunter, which is a much much slower game with not as much visual flare, but it's just more FUN to play, people will play Toukiden for like, a few hours, but people keep coming back to Monster Hunter for years.

 

You see the difference?

 

The styles are representative of stances, you can't just elminate everything in favor of speed, because star wars isn't like that in the first place, people with stronger styles often beat people who were way faster, because they know how to use their strength. Vader isn't slow by any means, but by applying his skill and strength, he could overcome much faster opponents who were much younger then him, and easily, at that. Strength matters in the star wars setting, it's not just some useless stat like in most fictional universes where the big brute gets his ass kicked.

 

Blasters, even in-lore, aren't faster then our rl guns.

[Langerd]

Well i would add the manual block but i hate games where blocking just makes you invincible. For blue style there is an attack that in jk2 was for breaking the block of the enemy. Same in the movies what Anakin done to Dooku and Maul to Qui Gon. Breaking the guard or the momentum of their lighsaber stance gave them chance for killing blow.

 

In some way there should be some kind of two bars. Not only force power bar but also strength bar. It would create the tension in the fight. Force power for jedi and sith are not only for force power and jumping etc. Force powers give them better chance for focus , to actually deflect the blaster bolts and predict where enemy will swing their saber. That is why using force powers is not using so much in the movies. It requires even more focus. Even Vader find difficult to actually grip someone and deflect shots. That is why FP would drop with saber deflecting and parrying fast attacks.

 

Strenght in the other hand - it is important in combat and i dont agree it is not. Maybe not only strength but to have body trained in physical way. Darth Maul wouldnt be able to do all of these jumps and even making these fast attacks. His focus (so force ) give him bonus that these fast strikes were also very well aimed. Physical capabilities are also important. But if some guy is muscular in armor with low force power - he can be outsmarted easly. And lightsaber is deadly weapon nearly for everyone so this is why jedi are mostly focused on fast strikes with well aim and great defense skills. Well.. not enough for Palpatine who just murdered 3 jedi masters in 5 seconds... and he wasnt very muscular force user. Vader in the other hand could fight many jedi with one hand. Because he was half of machine . Grievous killed many jedi too and he wasnt force user . His fast movement was because of his mechanic body. But he killed most of them because of the brute force.

 

There are many exepections of course but yeah. Force power bar and strength bar - i would balance in some way how it would work. (Maybe not strentgh but stamina bar). I dont want to turn this into rpg game of course

[Xioth]

The lightsaber vs lightsaber vanilla is pretty clumsy though, if not non-existant. It involves a lot of spamming and it doesn't really feel like sword fighting even between the Jedi. Fortunately, the mods fixed this.

A lot of Clans are based around the Vanilla saber system, including our late Shadow Order clan, and it isn't bad at all, if you try to spam against anyone decent, you will die in 2.5 seconds, hell I used to die to AI all the time trying to spam.

 

You can practice blocks, and they can be done easier if you know which direction to attack. You block attacks with attacks, while I agree Manual Block is better, the vanilla fighting system is still great.

[Mizore]

You'd eliminate the style I primarily use.

 

Also, we've been over this whole Jedi Academy vs Metal Gear Rising thing, let's not do it again, lol.

 

They did do Jedi Academy with much faster speed, it's called "Blade Symphony". It's cool but I still prefer the methodical approach of Jedi Academy.

 

We don't want blur-moving Jedi in a gaming medium, we just want it to look like it does in the movies, and shows, and this is the closest it's ever gotten to that, sometimes it's even better and more exhilarating then watching Obi-Wan vs Maul. There's alot that goes into the COMBAT of this game that other games don't have, I prefer the combat in this game because of the unpredictability of it, you're so close to death with every strike.

 

It's like, for example, let's bring this up for a second, do you want Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice, Gods Eater Burst, just because they're much faster and look a lot cooler, or do you want Monster Hunter? (Though to be fair Gods Eater Burst was incredibly fun)

 

Maybe I'm wrong but most people would prefer Monster Hunter, which is a much much slower game with not as much visual flare, but it's just more FUN to play, people will play Toukiden for like, a few hours, but people keep coming back to Monster Hunter for years.

 

You see the difference?

 

The styles are representative of stances, you can't just elminate everything in favor of speed, because star wars isn't like that in the first place, people with stronger styles often beat people who were way faster, because they know how to use their strength. Vader isn't slow by any means, but by applying his skill and strength, he could overcome much faster opponents who were much younger then him, and easily, at that. Strength matters in the star wars setting, it's not just some useless stat like in most fictional universes where the big brute gets his ass kicked.

 

Blasters, even in-lore, aren't faster then our rl guns.

 

But you do not speak for all; It's fine that you want the red style, but I want Force users to move like blur, because in the combat it is usually the fastest who wins, taking into account the characteristics of the lightsaber and that the Jedi live in a world where projectile weapons are extended. Jedi Academy is a game, it does not have to imitate the movies, and the old trilogy was limited by aspects that do not apply to games, such as the special effects and the age of the actors.

 

On Blade Symphony and the other games, I have not played them; I prefer a game more focused on the story.

 

As the strong wins the fast, it does not make sense to separate strength and speed: the stronger you hit, the faster you hit, and vice versa. If Vader wins with his slowness is for plot reasons, but if he was more credible, or moves as a blur or he would be dead.

 

About the slowness of the blasters, that's something I never liked; It seems silly to me that in a world supposedly more advanced than the real world, it has slower weapons than ours. It can also be argued that the blasters seem slow for the public to see them, when in lore they are as fast as bullets and the Jedi move as blur.

[Xioth]

But you do not speak for all; It's fine that you want the red style, but I want Force users to move like blur, because in the combat it is usually the fastest who wins, taking into account the characteristics of the lightsaber and that the Jedi live in a world where projectile weapons are extended. Jedi Academy is a game, it does not have to imitate the movies, and the old trilogy was limited by aspects that do not apply to games, such as the special effects and the age of the actors.

 

On Blade Symphony and the other games, I have not played them; I prefer a game more focused on the story.

 

As the strong wins the fast, it does not make sense to separate strength and speed: the stronger you hit, the faster you hit, and vice versa. If Vader wins with his slowness is for plot reasons, but if he was more credible, or moves as a blur or he would be dead.

 

About the slowness of the blasters, that's something I never liked; It seems silly to me that in a world supposedly more advanced than the real world, it has slower weapons than ours. It can also be argued that the blasters seem slow for the public to see them, when in lore they are as fast as bullets and the Jedi move as blur.

Then you can get a permanent force speed mod, and you can move like a blur all the time.

 

We'll just stick to what we're used to, not the fastest, but to me, way more fun then "super-fast" would be.

 

As for the blasters, they're always that slow regardless of what novel or comic book you're reading. It may irk you, but thats just how it is.

[Mizore]

Then you can get a permanent force speed mod, and you can move like a blur all the time.

 

We'll just stick to what we're used to, not the fastest, but to me, way more fun then "super-fast" would be.

 

As for the blasters, they're always that slow regardless of what novel or comic book you're reading. It may irk you, but thats just how it is.

 

Yes, but you will recognize that this slowness does not resist an analysis in detail, besides that there are comics where Jedi reject and dodge slugs, which are equivalent to bullets.