Kualan

Oh that's what a Lobot is.

I always assumed it was a sort of play on 'Lando's robot'. Only just learned that it's actually a reference to the guy being lobotomised.

And no problem @@Psyk0Sith

Just one quick fix:

.skin files link the computerb surface with a computerb texture that doesn't exist, resulting in half the headpiece not being textured. Editing the line to link the surface to the same texture as the computera surface fixes this.

You guys are missing the point. It's not about the reaction of Raven/Disney/Activision or anyone else. It's a question of principle. And personally I would care a lot if someone would steal my work.

I'm coming to this discussion fairly late, so chances are I'm missing a little more here but...I'm not sure how this counts as 'stealing' compared to any other JKA machinima?

The folks behind this little movie don't seem to be claiming any of the assets are their original creations. 

They don't seem to be making any pretense about the process of putting this together - where they're sourcing files from, what format they're using to make them seem more cinematic, etc.

They're not offering any ported/stolen content (delete where applicable) for download.

Now, whether or not they're making a good product is a matter of pure opinion. I happen to be curious as to what the final movie will look like, others in this thread seem enthusiastic at the prospect. Likewise, folks such as yourself and @@MoonDog seem firmly against it on principled grounds. That's fine.

Saying that you don't like it because of the lack of original work in it, or because you feel it 'stems from a lack of ambition' or any other reason you care to list is entirely valid - you can't have a wrong opinion. It doesn't contain a lot of original work, in terms of models, designs, and so forth.

But whether or not re-packaging JKO assets in the UDK engine for the purposes of a machinima video counts as plagiarism is a slightly more elastic issue. In the wikipedia link Moondog gave to the term, it specifically defines the term as the appopriation of someone's work for the purpose of presenting it as your own. The folks behind this don't seem to have done this. They've not said "Look what we made all by ourselves!", but rather, "Look what we've made by putting all these different pieces together!". It's an advanced form of kids playing with action figures. 

Doesn't the porting/legality issue only come into effect when people try to distribute those assets publicly? 

So long as they are being kept by those who have performed the porting (and presumably legally own both games involved, in order to do so), I'm not sure if there is any real legal question mark involved here. They're showcasing their ports, but not distributing them?

Lucasarts/Raven getting up in arms about a YouTube series seems as likely/pointless to me as Hasbro launching a lawsuit over a child posting a video of his action figure customs ("Thou shalt not place thy Obi-Wan figure's head on Boba Fett's body!"). If the team behind this were releasing the maps/models/textures/etc as publicly-available downloads, there would be more traction for opposition.

But you also missed the point where I said that Lucasfilm is no longer a thing. :>

That just adds more weight to the need to clarify JKHub's stance on whether we ban ports because they're judged to be morally wrong, or do we only ban the ones where there is someone still out there who cares enough to protect the copyright of the asset in question?

Or to really summarise it in blunt terms:

"If you can get away with it, should you?"

@@eezstreet

RE - your point about SW sounds/music that doesn't come directly from Lucasfilm, but from individual studios such as Bioware.

In the point I was making (that you quoted), they wouldn't come under any policy allowing Lucasfilm-sourced sounds. They would fall under the same logic as 3D models; property of the game studios. Though to use the KOTOR example in particular, there is the potential for a 'loophole' in that for a large number of the audio effects / music tracks from that series, they feature in both KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2. But those games were developed by different studios, whose link was Lucasfilm.

So in reality, anyone seeking to cause legal trouble over the use of KOTOR sound assets would find it very difficult to prove whether or not they came from Bioware's property or Obsidian's, and thus effectively negate an already unlikely 'lawsuit'. Does that make it any less 'illegal'? No, of course not. But it is near impossible to actually get punished for it. Which raises a new, more moral-based question:

Are we banning ports because we, as a community, believe they are inherently wrong? Or are we banning them because we believe the risk of legal consequences, however small, is a possibility? Neither is a wrong answer, but clarifying which one JKHub is siding with might help determine to what level of discretion the admins might utilise when it comes to maps/mods/models making use of ported content such as sound effects.

Any update?

I get the point @@MoonDog and @@eezstreet are trying to make by comparing sounds to models, but in practical reality I think there actually is a distinction to be made between the two.

For the majority, any sounds being used in new mods originate with Lucasfilm - they may have been sourced from a SW game, but the actual sound is one that originated from the movies. Lightsabers activating, R2 whistling, blasters firing, taunts for canon characters etc. And Lucasfilm has a long history of supporting the use of these sort of assets by fans in fan films and the like. Amongst all the big companies, Lucasfilm was a firm supporter of its fans creating their own material - even sponsoring their own fan film contests and so on. Every year practically every film in these contests would use SW sounds and the John Williams' music and there would be no issue.

So where Star Wars sounds and effects are concerned, I don't believe there should be any restrictions until/unless Disney announces a new policy on the issue as Lucasfilm gives every impression of wanting to encourage the use of these assets to strengthen its fanbase rather than restrict it.

When it comes to 3D models, however, the game changes. These assets might have designs sourced from the movies, but they are themselves the individual creations of the game studios that made the game and as such would require that studio's individual permission to port to JKA. Which is why sites like JKHub can get antsy over the prospect of hosting them. The chances of any action being pursued over the matter is very low, but the site admins are totally within their rights to play it safe.

Now personally, I'm in the camp that doesn't mind using ported material so long as the porter makes no pretension that the model is their own creation - when someone ports a model but tries to claim credit for creating it from scratch, that can really irk me. However, just because I don't personally mind using ported models doesn't mean I feel that a site like JKHub should change its policy to suit my tastes. I think the current policy works just fine.

The Grievous model that was taken down was ported from SWBF2, I believe it was uploaded by a guy named "grievous"

Ah yes, the image from the Hub's former file page for it is still viewable on Google. I vaguely remember seeing that model now - have to admit, unlike the Savage and Maul ones, I had no idea that Grievous was a port at the time.

Out of curiosity, what General Grievous model was ported/taken down? I had seen the New Vegas/Savage/Maul models on the Hub, but I thought the only Grievous that had been made for JKA was the Mars Marshall model.

How is this chap coming along @@Psyk0Sith?

Yum.

Aye, what Circa said. Maybe pick one of the choice missions from each tier to include as well? For example, the train mission on Corellia would be a good example of the Cult of Ragnos making attacks around the galaxy, and an early encounter between them and the Jedi who are still trying to suss out what kind of threat they pose.

Aye, take out the Mandalorian logo (or morph it into a symmetrical version) and you've got a pretty nice design for a theoretical Shadow Collective emblem.

Very consistent design with the representation of Dantooine in KOTOR. Nice job guys, you're continuing to excel at this mod.

To quote Yoda,

"To a dark place, this line of thought will carry us."

That is so hot. Hotter than Jan's pixelated bootie.

Oddly enough, something like a machinima comic is probably best developed as a solo project - that way you have complete creative control over everything, from the big ideas stuff like the plotline, character arcs, etc right through to the details such as the posing of a certain shot and the placement of speech bubbles. Whereas game mods benefit from having a wider team of people offering different talents, a comic needs only a writer and an artist...and by using assets from a video game you effectively absorb the latter into the former.

Good luck with this though, I shall look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I could rename styles to be after saber forms. 

 

Why does everyone associate yellow with Shii Choo? It's a fundamental style, but not necessarily basic. While it has the elements of Form I being the first style learned in SP, it also has a "classic" feel to it that a skilled practitioner would be just as likely to use it for higher level saber combat as would a beginner. 

I think it's because Shii-Cho, like 'Medium', is more flexible than most of the other forms. Ataru, Soresu, Makashi, etc have strict pro's and con's to them, whereas Shii-Cho can be put to good use in a variety of different circumstances. It is the ideal 'moderate' form.

Blue: Ataru

Yellow: Shii Cho

Red: Djem So

Tavion: Makashi

Desann: Vaapad

Dual: Jar'kai

Staff: Erm...Juyo? Technically another form of Vaapad, but there's no 'staff specific' form like there is for dual sabers.

Yikes!

I'm going to reinstall KOTOR 2 and try out the Restored Content mod, and I'm on Windows 7 so a hearty thanks to the people who posted in this topic - I can beat the problems before they crop up!

Posted a three-page preview of the first issue of Volume Four here:

http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=8867.msg167574#msg167574

Was hoping to get the rest of the issue finished this weekend, but I've been offered a bunch of overttime at work that is hard to turn down this close to Christmas! Could be a week, give or take a day, before the full issue is up.

Also of note - the planet Elecria featuring heavily in this issue is a fanon invention of @@NumberWan 's, and the Elecrians and their culture will feature in their upcoming The Dark Pasttime mod; the team were kind enough to let me use their new models for the Elecrians for this issue.

Decided to bite the bullet and get the standalone website up and running again. All interim issues have been uploaded, and the Credits page will be updated shortly as well:

http://www.talesfromtheclonewars.net/

Very nice!