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Posted

I don't think the First Order were the ones to create the Starkiller. More likely they used someone else's design. In Episode II it was a Geonosian prototype (I always wondered, whether these aliens wanted to make the halls and dark metal walls with white lights on them), in EU Bevel Lemelisk was the original creator of the two Death Stars as well as several other Absolute weapons. In most cases he was too fond of making the weapon quite dangerous, often forgetting about the security. Retcon made it so, that geonosians created the schematics for Death Star I, while Lemelisk worked a lot to develop it into something else.

 

I doubt it will play a big role in Episode VIII, but perhaps Starkiller is something found by the First Order during their retreat, and actually not the only finding, left by many factions long before the Clone Wars. Snoke might be the key here, as he is believed, as according to Andy Serkis, that he is quite aware of all of the events from previous films I-VI, and can be possibly even as old as Maz Kanata (so more than thousand years old).

 

People speculate, who Rey's parents could be. It was left as a question for us on purpose. There is a page from the Visual guide, which describes some of the things we see in young girl's possession on Jakku. Notice the doll and the helmet. They can hint on her parents relation to the Alliance, or she is simply fond of the aventures told by Lor San Tekka (or some other guy).

KiUbKcS.jpg

 

In one of the sources it is said, that Kylo Ren could hear some "messages" from his grandfather when spending time with the mask, however by the time of Episode VII these are gone. So even though Kylo tries to get an advice from Vader, it is actually very much silent despite all his efforts. There is a speculation, that there's no real connection with former Sith lord and Kylo was actually deceived by Supreme Leader Snoke, who sent his own messages during such times instead of Vader.

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Posted

 

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Posted
  On 12/20/2015 at 9:07 PM, UltimateForceUser said:

I don't know if it was just me.. or if anyone else was given this feeling aswell. But I certainly felt this movie was certainly trying to give off the impression of "empowering women". I mean, I'm not sexist in any way and I don't necessarily have a problem with it, at all. But with Rey being one of the main characters in the movie and diving into her (back)story (still a lot of stuff we don't know about her), it certainly gave me that vibe of.. Disney, in this instance, I think.. Of them trying to empower women, so as not to look sexist and probably done as a publicity stunt of some sort, as the Prequel and Original Trilogies were about male characters and people may have complained about the Star Wars movies being too one-sided towards males. Although, I think Captain Phasma would've at least been able to put that to rest, somewhat.

 

I mean, even I didn't know that Captain Phasma was a woman, until like a week before the movie came out.

They kinda screwed up pulling a Samus Aran by promoting her whole "She's a female Storm Trooper" promotional BS. If people WAITED until the movie came out, same with Disney and Lucasfilm, that would've been a great reveal. 

Posted
  On 12/20/2015 at 9:07 PM, UltimateForceUser said:

I don't know if it was just me.. or if anyone else was given this feeling aswell. But I certainly felt this movie was certainly trying to give off the impression of "empowering women". I mean, I'm not sexist in any way and I don't necessarily have a problem with it, at all. But with Rey being one of the main characters in the movie and diving into her (back)story (still a lot of stuff we don't know about her), it certainly gave me that vibe of.. Disney, in this instance, I think.. Of them trying to empower women, so as not to look sexist and probably done as a publicity stunt of some sort, as the Prequel and Original Trilogies were about male characters and people may have complained about the Star Wars movies being too one-sided towards males. Although, I think Captain Phasma would've at least been able to put that to rest, somewhat.

 

I mean, even I didn't know that Captain Phasma was a woman, until like a week before the movie came out.

I think part of it too is that they know that a majority of Star Wars fans are male, so they are trying to broaden the appeal by including a strong female lead that may be more relateable to women. So it's more of a business tactic to bring in more female fans. But then again, the president of Lucasfilm is female, so that factors into it as well.

 

  On 12/20/2015 at 9:36 PM, ShadowPhoenix said:

They kinda screwed up pulling a Samus Aran by promoting her whole "She's a female Storm Trooper" promotional BS. If people WAITED until the movie came out, same with Disney and Lucasfilm, that would've been a great reveal.

But this would imply that a woman being a stormtrooper is not normal, which makes sense in the context of the Empire but in real life progressives and feminists would find it offensive. Their whole idea for including female stormtroopers in the first place to emphasize equality between genders.

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Posted
  On 12/20/2015 at 1:58 PM, hleV said:

So since I've been asked to elaborate, I'm gonna go and do that. I shall mention that the movie looks nice and all, but is horrible and unfinished as far as plot and logic go. I went on and watched ANH in order to forget about the mess I'd seen in the cinema, but I guess I'll have to remember (don't know why am I even doing this for you people, you shouldn't be worth it).

 

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Oh, and completely unrelated to anything else, but I didn't realize the significance/connection till a buddy of mine mentioned it, but did anyone else notice that one of the pirates going after Han over a debt was Scottish? Kind of like... the Scottish pirate named Jabba coming after Han over a debt in that deleted scene in A New Hope?

jabba-set.jpg

 

In hindsight that's kinda neat.

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Posted

Also, I think a lot of you guys are kind of missing the point of what J. J. was trying to do when he made the movie. He was approaching the movie as a fan of the original three movies. He was trying to bring back the nostalgia and feeling of the original trilogy while introducing new characters, he's not trying to add another chapter to a Star Wars history bible that has to be completely coherent. Finding it unbelievable that Rey could mind trick Stormtroopers without any previous exposure to the force is nonsense. The concept of the existence of the force in the first place is unbelievable. Star Wars is not supposed to be scientifically believable in any way, it is fantasy. George Lucas thought of it as a fairy tale. I think if A New Hope was somehow released today instead of in 1977 you would find it just as absurd as TFA.

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Posted
  On 12/20/2015 at 10:41 PM, Syko said:

Finding it unbelievable that Rey could mind trick Stormtroopers without any previous exposure to the force is nonsense. The concept of the existence of the force in the first place is unbelievable. Star Wars is not supposed to be scientifically believable in any way, it is fantasy. George Lucas thought of it as a fairy tale. I think if A New Hope was somehow released today instead of in 1977 you would find it just as absurd as TFA.

 

Actually, no.

 

In ANH, Obi-Wan did the mind-trick and Luke had no idea what the hell that was or how the hell he did it, despite being very strong in the Force himself. In Ep6 he used it because he'd seen it done before. My point was, as far as we know, Rey has no idea the Force can do that. Her exposure to the Force that we *see* in the movie is limited to being frozen in place by Ren, seeing a vision from the lightsaber, and the interrogation scene...

 

...which... actually now that I think of it, that interrogation is probably a form of mind trick, and she turned it back on him and inadvertently read Ren's mind, so from that she could've gathered the idea of a mind trick. Or, like I said, if Episode VIII reveals that she's already seen Jedi using the Force like that before, and had just forgotten.

 

But uh... I think I just defeated my own argument, lol. I hadn't thought that much on the ramifications of the interrogation, but now I'm thinking it's not a stretch at all to figure she got it from that.

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Posted
  On 12/20/2015 at 11:16 PM, Garyn Dakari said:

Actually, no.

 

In ANH, Obi-Wan did the mind-trick and Luke had no idea what the hell that was or how the hell he did it, despite being very strong in the Force himself. In Ep6 he used it because he'd seen it done before. My point was, as far as we know, Rey has no idea the Force can do that. Her exposure to the Force that we *see* in the movie is limited to being frozen in place by Ren, seeing a vision from the lightsaber, and the interrogation scene...

 

...which... actually now that I think of it, that interrogation is probably a form of mind trick, and she turned it back on him and inadvertently read Ren's mind, so from that she could've gathered the idea of a mind trick. Or, like I said, if Episode VIII reveals that she's already seen Jedi using the Force like that before, and had just forgotten.

 

But uh... I think I just defeated my own argument, lol. I hadn't thought that much on the ramifications of the interrogation, but now I'm thinking it's not a stretch at all to figure she got it from that.

I just also want to add the point that in the prequels, Watto makes it clear that Jedi mannerism and mind tricks are fairly well known in certain areas.  "You think your some kind of Jedi waving your hand around like that".  Then you can also look at Jabba the Hutt in 6, "You fool, he's using the old Jedi Mind Trick!"  It isn't really that hard to come to the conclusion that some of the general populace understands/knows about Jedi mind tricks.  Do they have the force and can do them? No, of course not, but they know about the hand waving and such.

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Posted

The movie felt  way to much like A New Hope with bits of Empire Strikes Back.Nostalgia is one thing but the movie could use some improvements such as keeping the references to a minimum.The movie was average at best.To bad Ben Solo/Kylo killed his father Han.The only thing good about the movie was the new ships, and the lightsaber duel which was good too.As I mentioned before the New Republic are dumbasses by not realizeing that their capital(Thank god that wasn't Coruscant) and what appeared to be some unknown type of warships belonging to their fleet was going to get blown apart by the Starkiller Base.Some things don't make sense however how does Rey tap into the Force start to become a Jedi trainee by just feeling the force and touching Anakins Lightsaber.

 

There's a very specious feeling that Snoke is actually a disguise for none other than Darth Plaguesis.To finish this off this movie also has strong references to Knights of the Old Republic as well with the starmaps to Luke's unnamed exile planet.

 

There's a very specious feeling that Snoke is actually a disguise for none other than Darth Plaguesis.To finish this off this movie also has strong references to Knights of the Old Republic as well with the starmaps to Luke's unnamed exile planet.

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Posted
  On 12/21/2015 at 12:48 AM, Darth Futuza said:

I just also want to add the point that in the prequels, Watto makes it clear that Jedi mannerism and mind tricks are fairly well known in certain areas.  "You think your some kind of Jedi waving your hand around like that".  Then you can also look at Jabba the Hutt in 6, "You fool, he's using the old Jedi Mind Trick!"  It isn't really that hard to come to the conclusion that some of the general populace understands/knows about Jedi mind tricks.  Do they have the force and can do them? No, of course not, but they know about the hand waving and such.

You raise a fair point.

 

I guess the general tone of the movie up to that point had been pretty devoid of the Force, what with Han having to tell them it was even real. So on my first watching, it seemed to come out of nowhere. But, this scene I am now totally fine with. I think I'll reserve further nitpicks till after my second viewing :)

Posted

I just saw the movie... it was good and bad.

 

Good:

- It's Star Wars

- There was lightsaber action

- The dog-fighting was decent

 

Bad:

- Way too many parallels to ANH.

- Tired recycling of failed master-padawan relations

-- Yoda /Dooku

-- Obi-Wan/Anakin

-- Luke/Ben (nephew)

- D. Gleeson too young to play his General role.

- Finn, a glorified stormtrooper - janitor? [ black janitor- stereotyping?]

- Another cantina scene with horrible hastily thought out aliens... Giant Fly Bugs J.J.? Really? Why not have some Tribbles running around too?

- Kylo an at times brilliant and also pathetic force user & duelist? Who supposedly destroyed the Jedi Academy... Really?

- the ending... Luke turning around looking solemnly stupified. He should have force-retrieved the saber and ignited it and hold it skyward signifying a New, New Hope.

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Posted

@@Garyn Dakari

I actually agree with @@Syko – J.J. wanted to make the movie closer to the Original Trilogy. Many fans despised the idea, that the Force could be explained by some midichlorians, but J.J. said, that he wouldn't change the rules of the Creator, simply omitting the midichlorians (it doesn't mean they don't exist, it's just that after the fall of the Empire a lot of things are forgotten and there is nobody to remember). Abrams also said, that he's making the story based on the idea, that all can open the Force for themselves in one way or another. This is the general idea in ANH, and Yoda also proves that in TESB: that the Force is everywhere, in the trees and stones, around us.

 

Luke didn't know of the Force, as he stayed on Tatooine with his Uncle and Aunt. While he knows some stories, Owen must have allowed only a portion of it to flourish. Most of his friends however are not talking about the Jedi much, I guess, as the older generation tries to stay silent about these things, while the new ones haven't heard about it and are more fascinated by the Rebel Alliance and getting into the Imperial Academy (or dealing with real stuff, "here on Tatooine").

 

Watto and Jabba do know such things, because they must have encountered it before. Watto is a Toydarian, so it could be in their culture to explore this trait of Force immunity. Jabba Hutt is quite old not to know about the Jedi powers, as he's been active long before the Clone Wars. His species being immune can also be aware of their traits and that could be a known fact as part of their bringing up.

 

I don't think Rey doesn't know at least some things about the Force and the Jedi, she confirmed that in the dialogue with Han Solo. She never used that, but certain situations (stressful escape, meeting with Kanata, lightsaber visions and the encounter with Kylo himself) exposed her to the channelling of the Force through herself too.

 

In early rumors about the script there was a thing, that Lor San Tekka was presumably a friend of Rey, who collected various old things, including from the war. Being a veteran with cybernetics he would tell Rey of the Clone Wars and of the Galactic Civil war. But not being a Jedi he didn't help develop Rey her abilities, hidden deep inside her. That was a starting point.

Posted
  On 12/21/2015 at 8:06 AM, NumberWan said:

@@Garyn Dakari

I actually agree with @@Syko – J.J. wanted to make the movie closer to the Original Trilogy. Many fans despised the idea, that the Force could be explained by some midichlorians, but J.J. said, that he wouldn't change the rules of the Creator, simply omitting the midichlorians (it doesn't mean they don't exist, it's just that after the fall of the Empire a lot of things are forgotten and there is nobody to remember). Abrams also said, that he's making the story based on the idea, that all can open the Force for themselves in one way or another. This is the general idea in ANH, and Yoda also proves that in TESB: that the Force is everywhere, in the trees and stones, around us.

 

Luke didn't know of the Force, as he stayed on Tatooine with his Uncle and Aunt. While he knows some stories, Owen must have allowed only a portion of it to flourish. Most of his friends however are not talking about the Jedi much, I guess, as the older generation tries to stay silent about these things, while the new ones haven't heard about it and are more fascinated by the Rebel Alliance and getting into the Imperial Academy (or dealing with real stuff, "here on Tatooine").

 

Watto and Jabba do know such things, because they must have encountered it before. Watto is a Toydarian, so it could be in their culture to explore this trait of Force immunity. Jabba Hutt is quite old not to know about the Jedi powers, as he's been active long before the Clone Wars. His species being immune can also be aware of their traits and that could be a known fact as part of their bringing up.

 

I don't think Rey doesn't know at least some things about the Force and the Jedi, she confirmed that in the dialogue with Han Solo. She never used that, but certain situations (stressful escape, meeting with Kanata, lightsaber visions and the encounter with Kylo himself) exposed her to the channelling of the Force through herself too.

 

In early rumors about the script there was a thing, that Lor San Tekka was presumably a friend of Rey, who collected various old things, including from the war. Being a veteran with cybernetics he would tell Rey of the Clone Wars and of the Galactic Civil war. But not being a Jedi he didn't help develop Rey her abilities, hidden deep inside her. That was a starting point.

 

Her having the ability wasn't what originally bothered me, it was why the thought would even occur to her - nothing to do with midichlorians or anything anti-OT. I was just thinking that, logically, if you find out you've got some space magic in you, of course you might try a few things, levitating objects for instance, but at the time I didn't see why it'd naturally occur to her to mind trick someone.

 

But, like I said in my more recent posts, enough explanations for why/how she'd know to try it have been posted here, that I now accept the scene without issue :)

 

Interesting note on Tekka there. I hadn't heard that, but it fits with my(And probably many others') theory that he was the one holding Rey's hand in the flashback, and he was an Obi-Wan-esque watcher/protector(?) to Rey.

Posted

@@Garyn Dakari

When I was making a "script" puzzle, as I call it, I found several characters who know more than others. Snoke and Maz Kanata are confirmed now to be the ones, knowing a lot. Maz surely knows of the Jedi Order specifics and she even had some dealings with them, not being a Jedi though. A page from the book shows, that Kanata kept her Force powers a great secret during the Imperial rule and only after the death of Palpatine she felt more freely to claim anything (yet still cautious). I can't remember in the film, but a bust, which seems to be standing originally behind Jocasta Nu when she talks to Obi Wan in AOTC, is now in the possession of Maz Kanata.

 

Snoke on the other side is more aware of such things as Sidious's backstory, his plans for the Galaxy and possible involvement with Plaguies.

 

Lor San Tekka wasn't known at the time, but in early rumors he was like an old hermit, who makes rare contacts with town. Rey would come to him to listen to the stories. Luke Skywalker's lightsaber from Episode V was believed to belong to him at first, not Kanata. Then at one point he disappears in the story and appears in the end of Episode VII like leaving the main stage to search for something. And the viewers receive some sort of a hint, that he is a double character, well, not what we expect him to be, with the mystery left for Episode VIII. However he is not a latent Dark Side user.

 

It seems more of Lor San Tekka will be found in the book. Some posted partly the text from it already.

 

The script also mentioned, that aside from the main villain (now known as Kylo Ren) there was a different character - a young noble man, formerly from the Empire, who was much interested in the old relics such a Vader's helmet. Being of aristocracy and quite wise this unknown person was believed to be from Serenno, and a far relative of count Dooku (this rumour was probably based due to the release of the small novel about Crimson Corsair. Perhaps he was replaced by Kylo and General Hux (the latter reminds the noble guy in manners and style).

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Posted

My arguement for the Mind Trick is it was influenced by Kylo trying to extract information from her mind using the force, or trying to manipulate her into talking, she probably figured "If he can do it and I have the force surely I could pull this off?" Otherwise I don't think the idea would have occurred to her if he hadn't tried something similar.

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Posted

I wish I could read the original script-- beforee J.J. Abrams rewrote the whole movie...

 

Why did he make the only black stormtrooper a "garbage man/janitor" [stereo-typing?]… is he a racist? What about the F.N. designation-- does that stand for a racial slur? Hmmm...

 

I also think the story could have been made better if the Kylo Ren character had been an older Sith Inquisitor from Rebels-- or at least an a dark apprentice of a Sith Inquisitor -- going back to this failed master-padawan thread is LAME!

 

I didn't see it draw from the Rebels storyline at all.

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Posted
  On 12/21/2015 at 3:32 PM, Beron Garel said:

My arguement for the Mind Trick is it was influenced by Kylo trying to extract information from her mind using the force, or trying to manipulate her into talking, she probably figured "If he can do it and I have the force surely I could pull this off?" Otherwise I don't think the idea would have occurred to her if he hadn't tried something similar.

It's quite simple... in her resisting, and his probing, it sparked something unconsciously in her... that thru her mental fighting back in their "mind-lock" she discovered she could "see" his inner thoughts/fears.

Posted

You know the process is going to repeat itself with 8 and 9 mirroring Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi but differently. I wasn't paying any attention to the bizarre looking mosquito aliens having a drink in the castle.They looked really out of place lol .When Luke revealed himself  to Rey he seemed to have no idea who he was looking at.During the force vision scenes it shows a re-constructed Bespin set piece in case anyone was wondering.

Posted

(I'm not going to bother editing posts to have spoiler tags. Eh. Too many.)

I think there are already parallels to Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in this movie. The way that

 

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is very similar to the way Luke falls at the end of Empire.

I think in some respects the parallels to A New Hope were sort of required in order to show a passing of the torch from one generation to another. And Luke's saber represents that, in a way. I mean, they kind of screwed that up a bit in my opinion (I would've liked a bit more than a reaction shot. Maybe him turning it on. It feels like something is missing here.), but it still shows what they were trying to do.

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Posted

I do hope Rey is Luke Skywalker's daughter (with Mara Jade)... and given her affinity to fighting with a staff-- I do hope to see her wielding a beautifully colored dual-staff! ...and I'm hoping the blades are violet-purple (ala. Mace Windu color)

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