im going crazy, halp

[eezstreet]

So, looking at that old weapon list from JKG, I kinda had an interesting thought about SP, it being my baby and all (or well, it used to be). What if we made SP modular? Instead of packing everything into loose PK3s and using weird naming conventions, why not have a mod manager built into the game itself that dictates loading order of PK3s? Furthermore, we could use an elaborate system of coding hooks so people can inject code as needed. The idea is to build a base for people to create their own mods without having to learn complex code. Here's some ideas:

• Establish a concept of "load order" and instead of loosely packing PK3s, provide a separate mod manager utility that feeds the game a list of "mods" (read: scripts and PK3s) in a certain order, so as not to overwrite anything.
• Remove networking, because there's stupid limits imposed all over the place because of legacy MP leftovers. LIKE +BUTTONS.
• Provide a scripting extension to the game using a regularly-known scripting language, like, say, Pawn or Lua. Include hooks for different events, new events being included in major version updates. Some ideas: hooks for weapon firing, force power usage, force power deactivation, item pickup, item use, holdable pickup, holdable use, console command, cvar init, uiscript, ui field, NPC interact, maybe AI events? Oh, buttons, those too.
• The scripting hooks are loaded in sequence by the game, depending on load order. "Mods" can also tell the game to delete files in archives, which will prevent stuff like shaders etc from loading when they aren't needed, or other "mods" have incompatibility issues.
• REMOVE hardcoded stuff like weapons, holdables, items, force powers, and instead make them user-created via files and scripts. Upgrade ICARUS to match this behavior and provide a nice set of converted IBI scripts for vanilla JKA and JK2 behavior.
• Speaking of JK2, make the jk2gamex86.dll and jagamex86.dll into a common DLL. We'll just call it spx86.dll, cuz why not?
• Also speaking of ICARUS, should probably make it not-shit and include some new AI function exposure. Again, minor or major version changes will include more. Don't ditch what's there when it can be improved on.
• Wrap it all up with a nice little menu called the "Mod Configuration Menu". Each "mod" has a list of properties and their defaults, which are really just Lua globals. Helps to keep cvar count down. Since "mods" can disable or alter the mod configuration menu, special care needs to be given here.

I don't know, i'm crazy guy, ignore me.

[Asgarath83]

 

 

REMOVE hardcoded stuff like weapons, holdables, items, force powers, and instead make them user-created via files and scripts. Upgrade ICARUS to match this behavior and provide a nice set of converted IBI scripts for vanilla JKA and JK2 behavior.

DO IT!!!! O.O

You are not crazy man, that's genius!!! D: an Openjk friendly interface for easily modding!!

[Lancelot]

@@eezstreet

Your idea is similar to my request I posted, but with far more details.

http://jkhub.org/topic/4196-configurator-for-jajo/

 

I agree with you. I think that's what Jedi Academy really needs.

If it's possible to create an eleborate and powerful tool like this, why not?

[eezstreet]

Time. Resources. Motivation.

Raven didn't hire me, and @Silverfang22 is prepping guns so we can move Rapture to Source 2. At this point, I'm free. But this is a big project and I'm not sure how much more I want to invest in JA. I need to branch out.

[Didz]

My $0.02:

 

I think this project sounds crazily large and will take over a year to get to anywhere worthwhile. I'm used to taking on too many projects and having none of them get finished/released. (Makermod 2.0 anyone?)

 

You won't be expanding your skillset by doing this, because it's just same old JKA/Q3 code modding. All JKA coders can do this project, it'd just take a ton of time and effort.

 

In my opinion, I think you should carry on working on Rapture, but treating it as a hobby project. Don't expect to make money from Rapture, just expect to learn and make something fun. There's also some past research that talks about how releasing teasers/previews of your work while you're doing it will have a negative effect on your motivation. That's because you'll be getting positive feedback from other people (instant gratification) which means you're becoming less wanting to achieve the end goal of finishing the project. I'd link the article if I could find it again. I know that definitely happened with me when showing prototypes of portalmod while I was doing it, then I lost the motivation to actually get the implementation done properly.

[eezstreet]

My $0.02:

 

I think this project sounds crazily large and will take over a year to get to anywhere worthwhile. I'm used to taking on too many projects and having none of them get finished/released. (Makermod 2.0 anyone?)

 

You won't be expanding your skillset by doing this, because it's just same old JKA/Q3 code modding. All JKA coders can do this project, it'd just take a ton of time and effort.

 

In my opinion, I think you should carry on working on Rapture, but treating it as a hobby project. Don't expect to make money from Rapture, just expect to learn and make something fun. There's also some past research that talks about how releasing teasers/previews of your work while you're doing it will have a negative effect on your motivation. That's because you'll be getting positive feedback from other people (instant gratification) which means you're becoming less wanting to achieve the end goal of finishing the project. I'd link the article if I could find it again. I know that definitely happened with me when showing prototypes of portalmod while I was doing it, then I lost the motivation to actually get the implementation done properly.

Good advice, thank you.

I would at least be interested in setting up a foundation for people to work off of, but once Source 2 is out, I can't stick with it.

[Asgarath83]

Yes, the project will take a large amount of time and energies.... but the return is just over the personal satisfation.many modern games are large moddable with that system.  i suppose that this can make JKA more famous and more easily to modding also for the not experienced of coding, that's can be a great improvement for the community and for alld modded that desire to want a lot of staff and they cannot do for the code limitations. : \

i think that an really Open Jedi academy program need really a necessity of an easily modular \ modding system.

also, this is a BIG work and cannot be done only by one person, but need a teammate. and we know that rarely this project reach the end... sigh

[eezstreet]

Well ideally, just like my initial work with rend2, others would take an interest in developing it. The code base would be clean and not an unworkable mess like JKG, instead focused as a community development platform.

 

Again, ideally- the workflow would be something like:

 

1. Create new mod handling system, fs_restart, mod menu with checklist.

2. Set up mod properties, MCM, dependency management, mod removal, create a load order management tool

- public release, PK3s only -

3. Set up Lua scripting, a few preliminary hooks

- another release -

4. More hooks

- another release -

 

Unhardcoding stuff like weapons would be done through major releases.

I don't know, it's just a thought. This type of thing would work REALLY well for single player since it's not networked. Q3 favors large overhaul mods or mini PK3s, SP is better for content in an intermediate zone. JKA in particular could be nice since it's nonlinear. New levels could bring new weapons, like how the Noghri Stick is specific to t3_hevil.

[Asgarath83]

Yes, for the MP the code mod are not much working. they works fine only if other players gotta too, and also if the hosting server have the code setup. i am a SP player, more of MP... because simply i not like much the MP games, i play someone just for a little fun with chat friends.

Otherwise yes, it's an huge works... : \

i am not  acoder, but i pass 2 month just for my little editing of weapons, force powers and class code and i understand your exitation

really, two functions can be really useful: the possibility of pass by a mod to another mod \ add \ remove \ delete \ build in easy way-, and the possibility of add new customize weapons and force powers with some easy code parameter in some code menu of the mod.

that's should be great. D:

SP can be easily added by 4 new weapons for player, customization and unlock of first camera view and player use for all NPC weapons, and 16 new force powers highlity customizzable with effects, damage and working and affect on behavours of Npc and players hitted. 

example: a easily "force gravity" power that can define damage, cooldown, duration of efx, class damage or resistance, NPC affected by that that become without gravity for a lot of second, because the power affected the SET_GRAVITY function of Icarus.

lol... it's a madness, floating zero gravity stormtrooper that flymove after hitted by force power.... XDDD hilarous. or a power that affect the visrange or earshot of enemies making it blinds, or a power that drain aka force drain but regen the force bar instead of health bar, or, funnyly, the ammo or shield bar. XDD ...

the possibilty of implement the code of weapons behavours for making new hybrud weapons with an hybrid phyisc! (example: seeker flechjette projectiles. or a repeater that shot laser trap... )

well, should be great *_* no more limits with modding!

but i know, it's too long and hard to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[NumberWan]

@eezstreet

Not crazy at all. I thought of making multiple weapons, which would be uploaded into the game depending on the mission. For instance, when the next map is loaded, it presents a new location with new people and new weapons. The game would not just load a new map, but rather a map and a mod, which would replace the model of the weapon in the next level. Only the basic weapons like blaster and thermal detonators would remain the same.

 

The problem was that I don't know the command to load the mod. "map map_name" is clear enough, but how to attach a mod name as well - is beyond me.

 

I wanted to use that more than just for weapons. I saw a potential in that for quite a lot of instances, even back in the original Jedi Academy.

[JAWSFreelao]

This is brilliant. It's like the Mod-enabler tool for NBA 2K. Select X files to load in the game so that you don't have to overwrite X files so that you can play mod Y.

[Asgarath83]

Yes, a system for load a map of a mod by another map of another mod should be really great. with a lot of code editing this hallow unlimitated weapons customization about skin, models, efx and sounds.

[Lancelot]

Maybe it's a bit off-topic, but is it possible to change the title of this topic?

A more appropriate title could attract more people and could increase the chance

that someone will join the project.