Would Love a Helpful List of Tutorials For Modelling As I am a Complete Noob

[DarthDementous]

Hi,

 

Since my ventures into the mapping verse were quite successful I decided I wanted to take up modelling, mostly to help one of my modelling friends rig up his model as he is having some serious issues with that. I don't really know the first thing about modelling nor how to work with 3DS Max 5 (the program I am using for modelling) I have XSI soft image and the JKA SDK thought I don't know what either of those programs are for.

 

Is there a set of tutorials that will take me from learning how to work with 3DS MAX 5 to compiling a player model into JKA? (The models on the site seem to be for the more advanced).

Regards,

 

Dementous

 

EDIT: Was able to have a bit of a play around in 3DS Max 5 and exported Toshi's anakin model successfully. However, for some odd reason literally NO OTHER model.glm will import properly I keep getting this error while it imports:

 

In file: REF.cpp

 

Line: 831

 

DOUBLE EDIT: Huh, funny that. It's only when I import models from the base game. The other one I was trying to import was a skin based on the jedi_hm model, I also tried importing chewbacca but got the same error. But then I imported Mars Marshall's Grievous and it worked.

 

is there something I need to do to be able to import regular JKA models?

[minilogoguy18]

What exactly do you want to know about the programs?

 

Softimage is a 3d modeling, animation, simulation, node based programming and rendering package, it's far more complex of a program than 3ds max 5 by a long shot.

 

What do you mean by regular JA models? If you want the base models then this is the file you want to download.

 

https://jkhub.org/files/file/1586-animation-and-model-source-files-raven-software/

[DarthDementous]

I'll try and explain what I want to do as a starters for modelling. For tutorial purposes I wanted to transplant Anakin's head onto jedi_hm (jaden) but I can't import the model.glm of jedi_hm even after extracting base assets 1 into the folder base on my C drive. As in the path is C:/base/models/players/jedi_hm/model.glm. I instead decided to use Grievous because I was able to import him into 3DS Max 5. I then figured out how to do delete the polies/objects I didn't want so that it would just be anakin's head on grievous's body. This is pretty much the stage I'm stuck on. I had a look at Psyk0 Sith's compiling tutorial but it said to export it as a .obj or a .xsi file. However in 3DS Max 5 I don't get the option for obj or XSI. I thought Soft Image Mod Tools was the next necessary step to getting it ingame? Isn't that where you rig and weight it because that's what I believe it to be. I'm very confuzzled by all this so some clarification would be great

[DarthDementous]

Oh mah god I have learned a lot since this last post but still there are some befuddling parts of the weighting process. In @@Boothand 's recent tutorials I was told to download @@Psyk0Sith 's JKA skeleton. However, merging the .max into the scene results in a HUGE skeleton that's at least 3 times the size of my current model (grievous and anakin combined).

 

The whole adding bones part of the tutorial is another area that I am confused in. As of now I am using 3DS Max 2010 because my 2005 copy decided to mess up horrifically but I'm quite comfortable just sitting on a trial for it; at least for now. I selected the body part I wanted to rig, let's just say leg. Then I when to the Modifier tab and created a skin modifier for it. Underneath that I tried adding bones but NONE of them listed in the tutorial where there. The only thing that could be added (it also said select rather than add in the little pop up window) was r_foot_leg or something around those lines - but I assume that's just something left over. Do I need to import a skeleton to be able to do the weighting or create it in 3DS Max? I'm quite confused because I can't find a skeleton that fits on the model...

[Psyk0Sith]

You first load the skeleton because it has the correct scale. Your meshes then need to be modeled or fitted around that skeleton, or use Kyle as a guide. You could also use Archangel's skeleton: http://jkhub.org/files/file/1855-3ds-max-8-jo-ja-skeleton/

You can download this rigged character so you can see how things are setup. You can't create your own skeleton because it won't be compatible with the GLA file.

[Circa]

I hope to enlist some help to create a page for modeling identical to our Mapping page, very soon.

[DarthDementous]

@@Psyk0Sith are there any tools in 3DS max 10 that let me scale the mesh to the skeleton so I can actually try rigging it?

[Boothand]

 I selected the body part I wanted to rig, let's just say leg. Then I when to the Modifier tab and created a skin modifier for it.

 

Also, doing it this way may prove to be hard. The reason why it's recommended to weight your model in one entire piece before segmenting it, is because all the basic body parts need the same weights to move in harmony when deformed by the skeleton. Say, if the rradius bone has an effect of 0.5 on one of the top vertices of the hand, and you have a separate limb where the corresponding bottom vertex would have an effect of 0.8, they would move apart when deformed.

 

I don't recall however if I tried doing it this way, and checking off the option to merge identical vertices on compile. It might change the outcome, however I don't know, and even so I'd expect better results from doing the skinning on the entire piece, then segmenting.

 

As for why you can't see the bones in the list, I don't know. Are they in the regular object list (pressing H)? Also try on a new completely unaltered download of the .max skeleton.

[DarthDementous]

When you say .max skeleton do you mean the one Psyk0 Sith made @@Boothand? Because that's the one I'm importing.

 

EDIT: Opening the skeleton in .max and then merging the model did not make it fit to scale. The skeleton still towers over it. I meant I could not see any bones when I tried to add them if I have no skeleton loaded and only the model mesh - that's normal right?

 

DOUBLE EDIT: By using the scale tool it appears that I have scaled the mesh correctly to the skeleton so no problems there. However, after applying a skin modifier to the entire mesh and starting by weighting the cranium I am unable to follow your tutorial @@Psyk0Sith. It tells me to select the vertices using Move and Select but I'm not even sure what a vertice looks like. Is there some kind of view I should be in? I noticed your pictures had your model hollowed - how did you do that?

 

Regards,

 

Dementous

[Psyk0Sith]

Make sure you check this box or it will never work:

The hollowed view is called wireframe, press F3. Honestly you sound like you need to learn 3d studio max, if you have never done any modeling before, you're not skilled enough to undertake such a task, you will spend a ton of time troubleshooting your exports because of your lack of experience. I'm not insulting you, i'm stating facts, because i had some experience with max when i started rigging my first characters and it still pissed me off to no end! XD

I will upload Paul Greveson's skinning tutorial not related to Jedi Academy but will help you understand how to use the skin modifier.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdVo9M0SGY4&list=PL_BCFWryEiOcnCYSdA3xFzBxSOKsthkl1

[Boothand]

When you say .max skeleton do you mean the one Psyk0 Sith made @@Boothand? Because that's the one I'm importing.

 

EDIT: Opening the skeleton in .max and then merging the model did not make it fit to scale. The skeleton still towers over it. I meant I could not see any bones when I tried to add them if I have no skeleton loaded and only the model mesh - that's normal right?

 

DOUBLE EDIT: By using the scale tool it appears that I have scaled the mesh correctly to the skeleton so no problems there. However, after applying a skin modifier to the entire mesh and starting by weighting the cranium I am unable to follow your tutorial @@Psyk0Sith. It tells me to select the vertices using Move and Select but I'm not even sure what a vertice looks like. Is there some kind of view I should be in? I noticed your pictures had your model hollowed - how did you do that?

 

Yes that's what I meant. The logical thing as I see it would be to open that .max file, then importing the mesh, not the other way. But seems like you've found your way.

 

Vertices is the plural of vertex - a face or a polygon consists of 3 or more vertices. A vertex is a single point that each line of geometry is drawn from, going to another vertex, forming a polygon. In the Skin modifier, you're able to check off "Select vertices", so that they become visible. It's the little dots.

 

Alt + X will make your model transparent, if that's what you mean. You can be in any view. Weighting isn't easy to get right without tutorials, and even so it's hard to get right if the model isn't well constructed for correct deformation (my models are bad examples.. )

[DarthDementous]

Hah I appreciate the concern @@Psyk0Sith but I'm pretty determined to learn how to rig a model, just so I can cross off one of the hardest parts in modding and help my friend get his pretty damn amazing models in game. Now if he just got online more...

[DarthDementous]

Okay I had a look at the rigged model you sent me @@Psyk0Sith and based my weighting around that. However, when I exported it as 'root.xsi' in the XSI format 3DS Max 10 crashed after exporting it. I then added in the file humanoid.gla in Assimilate and set it to build and got this error:

 

Carcass (GLA/GLM compiler) v2.1. © Raven Software 1998-2003.

Written by Gil Gribb, Ste Cork, James Monroe, Mike Crowns

 

 

-------- C:\base\models\players\_humanoid\model.car --------

( Build trigger: "c:\base\models\players\_humanoid\model.glm" missing )

entering c:\base\models\players\_humanoid\model.car

(90 degree skewing OFF)

Loading GLA "models/players/_humanoid/_humanoid.gla"...21376 frames

Grabbed 1 files with 21376 frames

Processing 'c:/base/models/players/_humanoid/root.XSI'

XSI import failed, code = 6210 (file 'c:/base/models/players/_humanoid/root.XSI'

)

 

( Press any Key ... )

 

EDIT: Nevermind, that error was fixed because there was a multitude of bugs in the mesh and the weighting process that were very nicely fixed by @@Psyk0Sith. However, although it is lovely that it's in game it deforms horrendously... Here's a picture in modview to show what I mean:

 

Try and go to sleep after looking at that o.O. The model seems awfully skinny when it's in its neutral pose but I suspect that's because every vertex affected by each bone is waited as 1.0. But I can't change that for some reason it just constantly keeps reverting to 1.0 even if I put in 0.5 as the Abs Effect. Very weird o.o.

NOTE: I added and weighted the body parts in individual segments like the rigged model in the file Psyk0 sent me. I know you advised against this @@Boothand but the model was already segmented and caps had already been put in place so I didn't really have a choice :\.

[Boothand]

The model seems awfully skinny when it's in its neutral pose but I suspect that's because every vertex affected by each bone is waited as 1.0. But I can't change that for some reason it just constantly keeps reverting to 1.0 even if I put in 0.5 as the Abs Effect. Very weird o.o.

 

 

The reason why it keeps reverting back to 1 is because that vertex isn't shared by any other bones, thus it can only really be 1 or 0.

You can look at the weight table (there's a button you can click to open it) for a bigger overview. You can set it to display only selected vertices, and then see which bones affect your vertices, how much, and you can change it by dragging the numbers up and down with your mouse, or setting it manually.

[Archangel35757]

@@Psyk0Sith are there any tools in 3DS max 10 that let me scale the mesh to the skeleton so I can actually try rigging it?

Because the .GLM file is scaled to 64% during CARCASS compiling, after you import the .GLM mesh back into 3dsMax you need to select the mesh_root and rescale it using a factor of 1.5625. This will re-scale the mesh to it's original 100% size. Then you need to apply XFORMs to reset the scaling and then collapse them to rebaseline the scaling to this 100% value ( @@Psyk0Sith, correct? ). Then merge this with the .Max skeleton file.

 

You also need to get the latest dotXSI exporter-- it should not be crashing on export.

[DarthDementous]

I found out it only crashed because I had Animation selected, unchecking that worked fine in the XSI export.

 

How do I specifically scale the mesh root by using values? The only scale option I see is Uniform Scale and that's less than ideal.

 

P.S. I keep getting the error that the bolt_l_hand isn't weighted even though it is. Any ideas on that?

[DarthDementous]

OH WOW. Well I found out why I couldn't edit any vertice's weights. I had Normalize checked on >_<

[Psyk0Sith]

Because the .GLM file is scaled to 64% during CARCASS compiling, after you import the .GLM mesh back into 3dsMax you need to select the mesh_root and rescale it using a factor of 1.5625. This will re-scale the mesh to it's original 100% size. Then you need to apply XFORMs to reset the scaling and then collapse them to rebaseline the scaling to this 100% value ( @@Psyk0Sith, correct? ). Then merge this with the .Max skeleton file.

 

You also need to get the latest dotXSI exporter-- it should not be crashing on export.

 

Correct, the imported .GLM needs rescaling  @ 156,25% or something close enough to 156,20. I describe the whole procedure here The way to do it manually is to right-click on the scale tool, a box will popup so you can enter the exact % value needed.

 

 

 

P.S. I keep getting the error that the bolt_l_hand isn't weighted even though it is. Any ideas on that?

 

@DarthDementous check for duplicate meshes?, did you add only the l_hang_tag_bone to the skin modifier's list?

[Archangel35757]

I found out it only crashed because I had Animation selected, unchecking that worked fine in the XSI export.

 

How do I specifically scale the mesh root by using values? The only scale option I see is Uniform Scale and that's less than ideal.

 

P.S. I keep getting the error that the bolt_l_hand isn't weighted even though it is. Any ideas on that?

 

@@Psyk0Sith -- yes, it is exactly 156.25% [ (1 / 0.64) * 100 = 156.25% ) ]

 

@@DarthDementous -- Having "Animation" checked should not cause a crash... also for your "bolt_l_hand" weighting error-- having spaces in your 3ds Max filename can cause this issue (if your bolt is truly weighted)... the temporary workaround is to replace the spaces with underscores.  I have fixed this filename bug in the 3ds Max 2012 x64 plugin, and I'm in the process of going back and updating the previous Max 6 thru Max 2011 plugins.

 

 

[DarthDementous]

Oh man. @Pysk0Sith, you mean to tell me that I could've just taken an already existing character weight and applied it to this? AND I'VE BEEN DOING EVERY INDIVIDUAL VERTICE WEIGHTING D: Oh well, good practise I guess. I'm going to give the skin wrap modifier ago and then if that doesn't work I'll just use the copy of the original mesh and continue individual vertice weighting.

 

Carry on.

[Psyk0Sith]

It doesn't always give good results and it's far from perfect, it's helpful for characters that are similar to one another, but if your joints don't line up or doing some kind of robot, it's not ideal. I still prefer to manually weight everything. Skin wrap has a tendency to make the deformation "mushy" it's helpful for conforming stuff like cloth or long hair tho.

[DarthDementous]

I'd just like to thank all who helped @@Psyk0Sith @@Boothand @Archangel35757 among others that just popped in to say hello .

 

I finally got it NICELY rigged and ingame - apart from a few tearing issues but at least its not the deformed mess the others were . One thing that perplexes me though is how on Earth would I weight a full body robe to the skeleton? Things like Hapslashes Count Dooku model have a robe that deforms with the arms and the legs. How would I go about doing that in a skin modifier?

 

Regards,

 

Dementous

[Archangel35757]

Just add the clavicles, upper arms and leg bones (along with the spine bones) to the skin modifier and paint your weights accordingly.

[DarthDementous]

would I paint my weights accordingly to the meshes the robe is covering? I.e. The torso.

[CaptainCrazy]

I've been modeling for about 8 years or so and never really mind giving personal help and advice to people.  I can also point you in the direction of some good tutorials but i mainly use 3DS Max and Maya xD

 

So it really depends which you prefer to use lol.