Ping

To justify their purist choice over 1.00? So let me ask again: Why is the ESL relevant to this discussion about gameplay differences between 1.01 and 1.00?

Can someone explain to me how the ESL is relevant to this?

Oh I feel like almost everyone here is "new to the game", if you know what I mean. Ok sorry I just couldn't resist that one. I'll go and sit in that corner over there right now.

I think some guys affiliated with the OpenJK project were working on something similar (Hugo and his gang), but I'm not sure how far they got. I'm curious as to what changes to the gameplay you are intending to make though - do you, for example, plan to fix some of the more glaring issues like blue being useless?

Good times.

@@minilogoguy18: Afinity mentioned that one before and it most certainly is a good idea. A server on its own, however, won't give anyone enough of a reason to stick around on jkhub, so it would have to be combined with things like tournaments and so on.

Who cares, both are awesome.

Thanks for putting this to rest now and focusing on the projects at hand.

@@MoonDog: Ok let me try to clarify: At first the argument was that jkhub didn't cater to anything but modders because of the staff, since the staff didn't have enough expertise to be good at doing competitive events and whatnot. So it was suggested that the staff be increased with people who have that expertise, which was agreed to have been a good idea, except that it was argued that the people with that expertise were not forthcoming enough by not applying for advertised positions (which don't exist) or putting people forward to be on the staff (which I did, but it was shot down). So then the argument was that you didn't need a staff position at all anymore, but that merely working with the staff was sufficient; this is fair enough, but the staff used to be unsupportive in the past, and when I asked about hosting a tournament to cater to competitive players, I was told to merely post it in the events sub-forum. This isn't very encouraging. So to your points: Is the staff necessary? I guess not, except for doing all the things normal users can't: making news posts, posting interviews, sending out newsletters, restructuring the forums and so on. Am I a victim of prejudice or exclusion? Of course not, but even though interest in catering to competitive players has spiked now (due to complaints), I'm not sure for how long it will remain there before it returns to its original low. Do I know what PR means? I used the term here to refer to the act of maintaining a positive image by an organization. Of course the term is in some way misplaced, but there's no need to be a dick about it. EDIT: Despite the rather large dose of mostly unnecessary drama, I'm willing to put this to rest now and at least give the interviews a shot. I have a few people in mind and will brainstorm some questions today. The other projects, like a demo archive or doing something with videos etc, are a bit more complex, so it's probably better to discuss them in a separate thread or over PMs.

You are right, one was back a month after jkhub opened. Can you link the other ads? I can't seem to find them.

Of course there is no position - I'm not that gullible. I've been around long enough on the ESL and in various clans to know exactly what bullshit smells like. All that talk about wanting to increase the staff with people from the competitive community to diversify the skillset of the admins and make it possible to organize larger, more intricate events is just empty PR. All the arguments as to why this place has merely become a modder's haven center around the staff's lack of expertise, but when it comes to ameliorating the problem, there are no more open positions - as if that's how picking staff was handled so far. After all, we have quite a lot of staff, and yet the only advertised position in the history of jkhub was that for the site technician, which @@SiLink used to blame people from the competitive community for not applying! This is quite alienating. What's going on? And now you claim we don't actually need to be on the staff to realize some of those larger projects, or well, at least the interviews, since tournaments with awards, news posts and what have you were not addressed; but regardless, all of that just seemingly has to go through middlemen that neither have the expertise nor (apparently) the interest to support those measures. As Afinity said: We should all know how difficult and frustrating it is to work with unsupportive staff - why should things have changed now? Especially after all the PR just a second ago, I'm having a bit of a trust issue here that I'm sure many people will understand.

This is good to know, but I'd really like an answer to my question.

Where do I apply for a staff position? Give me a straight answer please.

Where can I send my CV?

Staff us then. It's ok.

If you want us to point you towards the people and write you the questions, wouldn't it be much easier (and way more appropriate) to have us be in charge of the entire thing then?

@@SiLink: I've done the demos part on the wiki article. You could, however, try to host an independent archive for demos, a bit like what basejka.com was trying to do. It proved to be rather popular with a lot of players. Movies are easy enough to get, since they're all on youtube, although just a handful deserve attention. Interviews are more tricky, since most of the more interesting people are not around anymore, but it should be fine. Besides that, tournaments should not be overlooked, and the forums adjusted. @minilogoguy18: Totally off topic, but this isn't just about damage.

What's z3n?

Because they don't have the same resources as you do. It's one thing to post about an event in some sub-forum, another thing entirely to have the entire staff doing interviews and writing news posts and all that. I mean, just consider this: You say my work on the competitive play entry is amazing, yet even though it would be a nice way to get more people interested in competitive jka and even get some people from the competitive community to participate here by wanting to discuss or alter the article, there has been no attempt whatsoever to spread the word by making a news post or something, despite your knowledge (and appreciation!) of the entry. Instead, we're going to get more interviews with modders about their projects. How can you seriously claim we're equals in this?

Oh so the contests will be just posts in the events sub-forum? I thought it would be something more interesting, featuring news posts and all the fancy attention stuff from the admins and whatnot. If it's just that, then the impact won't be as large, but I still believe branching out more is in the interest of jkhub in general. But then again I was lured here by the promise of finding a 'central website for all things JK', and I'm not sure if that's something you guys are even trying to live by anymore.

The contests only help to further entrench the idea that this a community of modders and will make opening up to other areas of jka even more difficult than it already is. If you were to turn the contests into (i.e.) sabering or CTF tournaments, maybe even leagues, and would advertise them appropriately, then maybe the opposite effect could be achieved though. The same problem applies to the tutorial days, if they are treated as proper events. Just encourage people to write more tutorials without holding events instead. As for awards, I have a problem with them in general, so I'd suggest just keeping it to general news posts if praise is really necessary. So yeah, I voted no on all of them.

Oh dear god that is SO good. It almost makes me want to give this fragmovie making another go. Especially the splinecam in pugmod was such a ridiculously time consuming thing to use that I am not at all surprised that people doing sabering fragmovies after rev4 never even bothered with it (even though the effects are really impressive to look at). I've already mentioned it in the other thread, but @@ent is hero2me.

I'm not sure how to put this, but I love you so much.

I want to learn how to saber with the precision and grace that I once used to do.

The schedule is a bit unrealistic, but a league with adjacent tournaments etc is a fantastic idea, as long as it doesn't force people to use mods (other than, mayhaps, the league mod, which in that case should be purely server-side and not try to reinterpret the sabering mechanics). If you do go ahead, I'd suggest focusing on a mostly American demographic, because ever since Sabermetrix shut down in 2008 they were left without a proper league. For everything else there's the ESL: http://www.esl.eu/eu/jkja/1on1saber/bo3_ladder/