Ideas for a modern Jedi Knight game

[Captain Leeroy]

A good roleplaying variant as the JKA roleplaying world used to be teaming with life.

[minilogoguy18]

Reguardless, this thread is pointless, with all talk and no action it may as well just fall to the bottom of the forum.

[swegmaster]

Just upgrade JKA to Source, there's your modern JK game . Just be sure to make it free to play, or face the wrath of EA and make it not Star Wars.

[LucyTheAlien]

I think you're going overboard a little bit with the force powers.

I feel like some of the force powers you suggest are too complicated.

And, to speak to force sight specifically, if you remember, JKA actually had some puzzles

that required your force sight ability, but there were only about three such puzzles in the entire game.

Most of the force powers JKA added felt gimmicky and unnecessary.

I'd like to see force powers focused around movement and combat primarily.

 

Same, I also believe Lightning shouldn't be in the game- in the EU anyone could use it almost which made Darth Sidious' mastery of it and the impact of him using it in EPVI less than special. 

If I had my way and it was canon, apart from Lord Tyrannus and Darth Sidious only two other Sith, Lord Of Hunger; Nihilus and Darth Malak would be able to cast it. 

[Mizore]

Same, I also believe Lightning shouldn't be in the game- in the EU anyone could use it almost which made Darth Sidious' mastery of it and the impact of him using it in EPVI less than special. 

If I had my way and it was canon, apart from Lord Tyrannus and Darth Sidious only two other Sith, Lord Of Hunger; Nihilus and Darth Malak would be able to cast it. 

 

Without lightning there is less fun because you are removing a possibility for the game.

 

Also Jedi Knight has not been a saga of only action, but it is action and adventure, which places the fighting in the main position, but also puzzles, platforms, conversations and infrequently stealth moments.

[LucyTheAlien]

Nah lightning is OP garbage; lightning also never killed anyone outright in canon like it does at in JKA; it's nonsense that Jaden Korr could case something that powerful. And illogical that Kyle could IMO.

 

It should have a more in depth lightsaber system with forms and everything.

Force powers should be essentially kept to what Obi-Wan can do; with some force powers like, breach, choke and telekinesis thrown in there. Not every Jedi should be able to use the force at an (Episode III) Anakin talent level, nevermind lighting more powerful than the Emperor's.

[Mizore]

Nah lightning is OP garbage; lightning also never killed anyone outright in canon like it does at in JKA; it's nonsense that Jaden Korr could case something that powerful. And illogical that Kyle could IMO.

 

It should have a more in depth lightsaber system with forms and everything.

Force powers should be essentially kept to what Obi-Wan can do; with some force powers like, breach, choke and telekinesis thrown in there. Not every Jedi should be able to use the force at an (Episode III) Anakin talent level, nevermind lighting more powerful than the Emperor's.

 

Why does a video game have to follow the movies in detail? They are different formats. That you can not perform offensive Force powers without being evil, or that you can not use a lightstaff and two lightsabers for different occasions, are things that can reduce the fun.

[LucyTheAlien]

Why does a video game have to follow the movies in detail? They are different formats. That you can not perform offensive Force powers without being evil, or that you can not use a lightstaff and two lightsabers for different occasions, are things that can reduce the fun.

 

Never said this. Just said what I think the game should or shouldn't include. 

[Mizore]

Never said this. Just said what I think the game should or shouldn't include. 

 

You're right but I see no reason not to include lightning.

[Echo]

Linear games suck so bad, especially the ones that are just 1 long interactive cut scene.

 

Just upgrade the existing engine since movement and mechanics wise it really can't get much better, just needs visuals improved and physics added.

 

@@Echo, JA didn't add anything but extra saber blades, all the powers that are in JA are in JK2, just not all of them are available in the SP campaign.

 

Shoot, you're right! I had forgotten about MP force powers.

[Mizore]

I'd like to see force powers focused around movement and combat primarily.

 

And most of the powers I have presented are relative to combat and movement. The exception is Force trick as undetectability and adopt aspect of the enemy, but that power already appears in JA and JO, so I do not see any problem here.

 

Force trick is to originate directly ideas or impressions in the minds of others, so it is thought possible to give the impression that you are not there, or that you have another appearance, essential for stealth situations, although they would be sporadic and better done than in JO.

 

About Force sense, I think it's wasted on JA, and would be useful for combat as well.

 

To summarize I see Jedi Knight not as an action game, but an action and adventure game, with combat as the main thing, but also puzzles, conversations, platforms and sporadic stealth.

[Mizore]

Slow motion and QTE are terrible game mechanics.

 

And what do you propose to implement super reflexes or Jedi precog? JA and JO opted for the easy, not to implement any of these things, but for me the speed of reaction and the Jedi precog are capitals for Jedi conduct in the battlefield. No one can have suprahuman reflexes, but if time is slowed on certain occasions, then there is the illusion of having greater reflexes. Hence the super reflexes. Concerning combat precog, the attack could be made translucent as vision of the future, before the actual attack, but that would be too complicated, and the QTE would make things easier to implement.

[LucyTheAlien]

And what do you propose to implement super reflexes or Jedi precog? JA and JO opted for the easy, not to implement any of these things, but for me the speed of reaction and the Jedi precog are capitals for Jedi conduct in the battlefield. No one can have suprahuman reflexes, but if time is slowed on certain occasions, then there is the illusion of having greater reflexes. Hence the super reflexes. Concerning combat precog, the attack could be made translucent as vision of the future, before the actual attack, but that would be too complicated, and the QTE would make things easier to implement.

 

I'd rather not have the feature at all if the best the developers can churn out is QTEs. 

[JediBantha]

My ideas for a modern JK game:

 

1.) Re-Implement DF2 Powers

2.) Add KotOR Force Powers (from both games)

3.) Add more weapon types

4.) Make the combat more involved (dual-wielding firearms,saber & blaster, Combat w/ Telekinesis, etc)

5.) Make an actual alignment mechanic (a blend of KotOR & DF2)

 

 

1.) Choices that define your character and affect the world around you (KotOR, but more involved)

2.) Make powers of opposing alignments cost more to use (KotOR) and possibly reduce their effects (ex: LS Players deal less damage with Deadly Sight, DS Players get reduced benefit from Protection)

3.) Based on your alignment, at the "point of no return", choose which powers to keep/get rid of. (Not DF2) Otherwise, if you're full LS/DS, automatically get rid of all powers of opposing alignments (DF2)

4.) Killing civilians & non-combatant droids (?) counts towards DS (DF2, obvious but essential)

 

 

6.) Make the world and the story immersive

[Mizore]

I'd rather not have the feature at all if the best the developers can churn out is QTEs. 

 

Super reflexes are implemented with slow time and precog could be implemented with translucent attack before the actual attack, without using QTE.

 

My ideas for a modern JK game:

 

1.) Re-Implement DF2 Powers

2.) Add KotOR Force Powers (from both games)

3.) Add more weapon types

4.) Make the combat more involved (dual-wielding firearms,saber & blaster, Combat w/ Telekinesis, etc)

5.) Make an actual alignment mechanic (a blend of KotOR & DF2)

6.) Make the world and the story immersive

 

Most of the KOTOR powers could not fit into an action-adventure game, because many powers seem redundant in an action game, for example: aura, valor and supression seem unnecessary, fear, slow, and shock can be variants of Force trick, and the other powers are already somehow in Jedi Academy. The rest does seem interesting to me.

[Noodle]

And what do you propose to implement super reflexes or Jedi precog? JA and JO opted for the easy, not to implement any of these things, but for me the speed of reaction and the Jedi precog are capitals for Jedi conduct in the battlefield. No one can have suprahuman reflexes, but if time is slowed on certain occasions, then there is the illusion of having greater reflexes. Hence the super reflexes. Concerning combat precog, the attack could be made translucent as vision of the future, before the actual attack, but that would be too complicated, and the QTE would make things easier to implement.

 

Except that's wrong. In Jedi Academy you get super reflexes if you use Force Sense, as it should be. Force users have to focus to get their precog and super reflexes, There are many examples in canon, lit's the reason why Plagueis could be killed during his sleep, Mace Windu was almost murdered by Boba Fett, or in Order 66 when some of the Jedi don't even see it coming untill it's too late. 

 

Same thing happens in Jedi Academy, if you use Force sense, you get perfect aim with guns and you also get the ability to dodge sniper lasers. When you use Force Speed, time does slow down, but it's something that you choose to do, or have to if you use your brain, not an automatic trigger that makes it impossible for you to lose. Videogames are much better when there's no handholding: QTEs, automatical slowmotion or translucent vision, makes playing a video game much less enjoyable since the player is much less active and doesn't get to take important desitions. 

[JediBantha]

In Jedi Academy you get super reflexes if you use Force Sense

 

Wrong, sir - You get super reflexes from Force Speed; Force Sense gives you the foresight to use it.

[Mizore]

Except that's wrong. In Jedi Academy you get super reflexes if you use Force Sense, as it should be. Force users have to focus to get their precog and super reflexes, There are many examples in canon, lit's the reason why Plagueis could be killed during his sleep, Mace Windu was almost murdered by Boba Fett, or in Order 66 when some of the Jedi don't even see it coming untill it's too late. 

 

Same thing happens in Jedi Academy, if you use Force sense, you get perfect aim with guns and you also get the ability to dodge sniper lasers. When you use Force Speed, time does slow down, but it's something that you choose to do, or have to if you use your brain, not an automatic trigger that makes it impossible for you to lose. Videogames are much better when there's no handholding: QTEs, automatical slowmotion or translucent vision, makes playing a video game much less enjoyable since the player is much less active and doesn't get to take important desitions. 

 

But super reflexes and combat precog are passive skills, not active, do not require act of will. Also it does not make sense that you have to resort to the reflexes of the player to have super reflexes, because then that is not super reflexes, but reflexes as slow as a human. On the examples that you give, that are failures of the precog, but if precog does not fail, then it is passive and does not require concentration.

 

About things you have to do and things that are automatic triggers, what I propose is a combination of both, not pure automatisms: if someone shoot a missile, in effect it slows down time, but you have to manifest Force push to reject the projectile, if someone shoot a disruptor beam, a QTE appears or translucent attack, but you have to dodge the attack. Doing it as JA only leads to it being almost impossible to reject concussion rifle shots, for example. Also there are plenty of skills that should be passive.

[Noodle]

But super reflexes and combat precog are passive skills, not active, do not require act of will. Also it does not make sense that you have to resort to the reflexes of the player to have super reflexes, because then that is not super reflexes, but reflexes as slow as a human. On the examples that you give, that are failures of the precog, but if precog does not fail, then it is passive and does not require concentration.

 

I disagree. We see Jedi get precognition when they're actively in combat or when they start to focus on something because they feel there's something afoot. 

 

But talking about gameplay mechanics, I just remembered the Spider-man 2 game for the gamecube. That game had combat precog that wasn't a QTE. You had to press a button in the right time when you were going to get punched to dodge an attack, but you'd get a spidey-sense effect over your head that told you you were going to be attacked. There was no QTE or slow motion, and it worked really well.

[Xycaleth]

Just to point out, you can't slow down time in a multiplayer game at least, not for just a single player.

[Mizore]

I disagree. We see Jedi get precognition when they're actively in combat or when they start to focus on something because they feel there's something afoot. 

 

Although precog only manifests in combat, that does not require thought, it is clear that it is passive:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precognition

 

And what about the super reflexes? Human reflexes in order to have super reflexes? It is a vicious circle.

 

But talking about gameplay mechanics, I just remembered the Spider-man 2 game for the gamecube. That game had combat precog that wasn't a QTE. You had to press a button in the right time when you were going to get punched to dodge an attack, but you'd get a spidey-sense effect over your head that told you you were going to be attacked. There was no QTE or slow motion, and it worked really well.

 

Sounds good to me, but that's a kind of QTE, but only with a key, and it does not appear in JA or JO.

[Mizore]

Just to point out, you can't slow down time in a multiplayer game at least, not for just a single player.

 

Someone already commented that, but my ideas are focused on single player.

[CansecoDev]

 

 

I seem to remember that the only additions to Jedi Academy MP are Team Heal and Team Energize, as I don't recall ever seeing them in Jedi Outcast MP.

 

Those are on JKO as well.

 

I think you're going overboard a little bit with the force powers.

I feel like some of the force powers you suggest are too complicated.

And, to speak to force sight specifically, if you remember, JKA actually had some puzzles

that required your force sight ability, but there were only about three such puzzles in the entire game.

Most of the force powers JKA added felt gimmicky and unnecessary.

I'd like to see force powers focused around movement and combat primarily.

 

There are no new force powers on JKA

[Noodle]

Although precog only manifests in combat, that does not require thought, it is clear that it is passive:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precognition

 

That's non-canon though.

[JediBantha]

That's non-canon though.

 

Umm no, Anakin Skywalker was capable of Precognition (or at least receiving Force Visions) even before he was a Jedi, therefore making it canon.

 

Also, I forgot to add feats to my little list.