Bug/Continuity Error Rundown

[eezstreet]

JKA

• t1_surprise has an incorrect "count" number in its Secret Area count
• hoth2 also has an incorrect "count"
• Several caulking issues throughout

JK2

• The imperial in the dark room on cairn_dock1 has incorrect earshot and visibility values
• On cairn_assembly, the first pod you encounter has a walkway leading to it at the top. If viewed from a certain angle, a huge caulking error is visible on the bottom of the catwalk
• Minor PVS issues in doom_comm, cairn_assembly, cairn_bay and ns_hideout
• Minor annoyance in ns_streets: If the speakers in the bar are blown out (yes, little known fact: you can actually destroy the speakers in the bar), there's no indicator that they're blown out, and while in the bar, there won't be any music period
• Due to certain dialogue being absent, the password droid on ns_hideout will sometimes open the trapdoor without receiving an actual password.
• Continuity: It's obvious that there's bowcasters throughout artus_mine, but nobody uses them; even the prisoners won't touch them, despite a dead prisoner being the source for the first Bowcaster you encounter.
• There's several Metallic Bolt pickups in ns_starpad, even though at this point in the game you don't have access to any weapons which use them.
• Another minor annoyance on kejim_base (minor spoilerz): there's a secret area towards the end that has to be crouched through in a certain way in order to activate the secret area, but you're able to access the goodies in it while standing up. (If you know which secret area I'm talking about, this will make complete sense, honest) This is rather puzzling; even on the official strategy guide it doesn't list this secret area.

Please submit more if you find them.

[Omicron]

JKA

• Rosh is too much of a douchebag
• Rosh is too annoying
• Rosh

[hleV]

The prisoners don't know how to use bowcasters... They have passwords that must be spelled out in Wookiee language.

 

Also JA needs more Rosh. Rosh inspires hatred and desire to share it with the rest of the world, thus activity in the forums.

[NumberWan]

On cairn_reactor I once got stuck in the elevator. It's the one you can use in a large area, when a round plat starts hovering by the wall and then is destroyed by a stormtrooper. The glitch might have been a single case: I came to the upper level and used the Force push to move the stromtroopers there from corridor closer to elevator shaft. One of the enemies fell on the elevator platform, and I jumped there too. Now when the plat was going down, I was shooting stormtrooper, and when he died, I got stuck in the platform with the stormtrooper. As if I used noclip code.

 

By the way similar problem was in Dark Forces 2. JK legacy.

[eezstreet]

Looks to be a fringe case, there's likely similar issues with all elevators.

[Spirit]

• Continuity: on t3_byss, after shutting down the tractor beam, Kyle tells the player through comlink that "THEY'RE SENDING TIE BOMBERS!" but the said bombers are nowhere to be seen, there are only TIE Fighters. 

But the whole situation is just pure, weapons grade bullshit. I mean, Imperial fighters attack their own spaceship, because why not. The crew of the said ship gives absolutely zero fuks about it. The attackers are TIE Fighters, and supposedly bombers, which are short range spacecraft without hyperdrive. We can also assume that there are no other capital ships around, because they would probably also fire on the dreadnaught, but no such thing can be seen. In other words, the attacking TIEs are the dreadnaught's own fighter squadrons, who, being short range spacecraft with minimal life support and rations, desperately need a carrier. So basically, the entire ship, along with its fighter and bomber escort just commits suicide because two Jedi are on board. 

 

[eezstreet]

Nice catch on both counts.

 

Kyle has Protect and Absorb despite us not having access to those powers in JK2. Continuity issue, perhaps?

 

It slightly bothers me that in JK2, Kyle says at the end (spoilers) "The rest of them blew up with your ship." Was that really the last of the Shadowtroopers though? After all, some of them appear in the Academy grounds. It's impossible for me to believe that they were completely wiped out also, especially since they seem to have been engineered in Cairn, which wasn't even catastrophically damaged by Kyle's actions.

 

And this in turn leads me to my main issue with Cairn. It makes absolutely no sense that Kyle wants to sneak out after carving a path through enemies. I think there should be an optional objective in cairn_dock to place charges, so that the installation can be destroyed. After destroying the installation, Shadowtroopers won't appear in Yavin.

[Spirit]

Nice catch on both counts.

 

Kyle has Protect and Absorb despite us not having access to those powers in JK2. Continuity issue, perhaps?

 

It slightly bothers me that in JK2, Kyle says at the end (spoilers) "The rest of them blew up with your ship." Was that really the last of the Shadowtroopers though? After all, some of them appear in the Academy grounds. It's impossible for me to believe that they were completely wiped out also, especially since they seem to have been engineered in Cairn, which wasn't even catastrophically damaged by Kyle's actions.

 

And this in turn leads me to my main issue with Cairn. It makes absolutely no sense that Kyle wants to sneak out after carving a path through enemies. I think there should be an optional objective in cairn_dock to place charges, so that the installation can be destroyed. After destroying the installation, Shadowtroopers won't appear in Yavin.

IIRC Force Protect and Absorb are also featured in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, so it's really a continuity error. Force Deadly Sight is also featured in the game. As for the Shadow Troopers: they are simple stormtroopers who were enhanced with the Force by Desann in the Valley of the Jedi. The Valley of the Jedi was recaptured and secured by the New Republic, cutting off the supply of fresh Shadow Troopers. Unlike Reborns who were deployed all over the galaxy, including places like Cloud City, Shadowtroopers were only present on the Doomgiver, the Cairn installation, and the Jedi Temple. Kyle mostly wiped out those on Cairn, sabotaged the Doomgiver, and the very few Shadowtroopers who survived the siege of the Jedi temple were captured.

[eezstreet]

IIRC Force Protect and Absorb are also featured in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, so it's really a continuity error. Force Deadly Sight is also featured in the game. As for the Shadow Troopers: they are simple stormtroopers who were enhanced with the Force by Desann in the Valley of the Jedi. The Valley of the Jedi was recaptured and secured by the New Republic, cutting off the supply of fresh Shadow Troopers. Unlike Reborns who were deployed all over the galaxy, including places like Cloud City, Shadowtroopers were only present on the Doomgiver, the Cairn installation, and the Jedi Temple. Kyle mostly wiped out those on Cairn, sabotaged the Doomgiver, and the very few Shadowtroopers who survived the siege of the Jedi temple were captured.

This is false. The Shadowtroopers are a totally different type of soldier. As explained on Kejim, the Remnant were using machines to artificially infuse the force into Shadowtroopers by using force crystals. They also gave them specialized Cortosis armor.

The Reborn on the other hand were simple stormtroopers/imperials/people who were given the power of the force via the Valley. The cultists of Ragnos on the other hand are just straight-up Sith. It's a bit depressing to me that we only ever actually fight maybe two true Sith characters in either JK2 or JKA (Alora and Tavion, who are both incidentally female). The cultists are so weak that they can be killed off in one blow.

 

Anyway, if that were the case, it still seems implausible to me that they would simply stop manufacturing Shadowtroopers altogether. While the Cairn installation was damaged, it wasn't destroyed, and there was no sign of them slowing down production. Since the Cairn Stockpile mission was cut from the game, we don't know the status of their supplies. There's also no guarantee that this is the only place they manufactured them. For all we know, they aren't even manufacturing them on Cairn, they could just be transporting them.

[Ramikad]

There's a continuity error of sorts between Taspir and Korriban: if Jaden came with the Raven's Claw, how is it that he lands on Korriban with his Z-95?

[Spirit]

This is false. The Shadowtroopers are a totally different type of soldier. As explained on Kejim, the Remnant were using machines to artificially infuse the force into Shadowtroopers by using force crystals. They also gave them specialized Cortosis armor.

The Reborn on the other hand were simple stormtroopers/imperials/people who were given the power of the force via the Valley. The cultists of Ragnos on the other hand are just straight-up Sith. It's a bit depressing to me that we only ever actually fight maybe two true Sith characters in either JK2 or JKA (Alora and Tavion, who are both incidentally female). The cultists are so weak that they can be killed off in one blow.

 

Anyway, if that were the case, it still seems implausible to me that they would simply stop manufacturing Shadowtroopers altogether. While the Cairn installation was damaged, it wasn't destroyed, and there was no sign of them slowing down production. Since the Cairn Stockpile mission was cut from the game, we don't know the status of their supplies. There's also no guarantee that this is the only place they manufactured them. For all we know, they aren't even manufacturing them on Cairn, they could just be transporting them.

 

From wookieepedia:

(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowtrooper):

Shadowtroopers were stormtrooper-Dark Jedi hybrid soldiers created by the DarkJedi Desann and Imperial Admiral Galak Fyyar on behalf of Lord Hethrir's Empire Reborn. Similar to the Reborn soldiers, Desann used the Valley of the Jedi to imbue stormtroopers with Force powers.

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Reborn

Hethrir had entrusted Desann with training a number of his loyal Empire Youths

 

The shadowtroopers were Imperial Stormtroopers artificially empowered with the Force. The Rebron were members of the Imperial Youth. Both groups of Dark Force users were made by utilising the power of the Valley of the Jedi. It is suggested that Reborn troopers were used widespreadly, while Shadowtroopers were only deployed during the siege of the Jedi Temple, this is why there are a bunch of Reborns left even after the new Republic secured Ruusan, but no Shadowtroopers. Note that Kyle and Jaden never fought against the Sith. Jerec was an Imperial Inquisitor, his followers, as well as Desann, Tavion Axmis, and Alora were Dark Jedi. Technically, when Ragnos posessed Tavion, Jaden had to fight a Sith Lord, but even then, Ragnos was limited by to the capabilities of Tavion's body. The cultists of Ragnos weren't Sith or Dark jedi, they were ordinary people infused with the Force using the Scepter of Ragnos, and Force power siphoned from various nexuses, and they lost their power when the scepter was destroyed.

[eezstreet]

Ok, that's true about Tavion and Alora. It doesn't really change my point about Shadowtroopers though.

[Spirit]

Ok, that's true about Tavion and Alora. It doesn't really change my point about Shadowtroopers though.

The Force Crystals were infused with the power of the Valley of the Jedi, and then they were used to empower stormtroopers.  (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Artusian_crystal). I think the reason why Shadowtroopers needed a crystal and Reborn didn't is that stormtroopers were not Force sensitive at all, while the members of the Empire Youth who were chosen for the Reborn program did possess some Force sensitivity to begin with. With the valley of the Jedi secured by the New Republic, there was no way to enhance any more crystals and make Shadowtroopers.

[eezstreet]

The crystals weren't infused with the Valley's power. They were trying to use these crystals on subjects from Artus on Kejim. My understanding is that the crystals were basically just lightsaber crystals. ("Those crystals you're holding are not much different from that of a Jedi's lightsaber...")

[Spirit]

The crystals weren't infused with the Valley's power. They were trying to use these crystals on subjects from Artus on Kejim. My understanding is that the crystals were basically just lightsaber crystals. ("Those crystals you're holding are not much different from that of a Jedi's lightsaber...")

Well, Wookieepedia is quite clear on the matter.

Artusian crystals were a substance found and mined on Artus Prime. They were the primary component in Admiral Galak Fyyar's plan to infuse Force powers into Human subjects with little Force-sensitivity. Initial attempts to do this in Kejim Outpost were unsuccessful, but the goal was finally achieved after the crystals themselves were infused with the power of the Valley of the Jedi. A small Artusian crystal was a vital part of the Shadowtrooper armor.^[1]

[ensiform]

But isn't there shadow troopers on the tram level too?

[eezstreet]

Yeah, that's on the Doomgiver.

 

And hmm. It seems that what happened at the Valley was never explicitly clear. I feel like this needs closure. Why didn't Tavion attempt to reclaim the Valley? What even happened there?

[Ramikad]

Yeah, that's on the Doomgiver.

 

And hmm. It seems that what happened at the Valley was never explicitly clear. I feel like this needs closure. Why didn't Tavion attempt to reclaim the Valley? What even happened there?

 

Luke mentions in Jedi Outcast he sealed the Valley.

 

Luke: Not anymore.  I managed to scatter Desann and his Reborn troops, and Rogue Squadron chased away their ships.  For now the Valley's effectively sealed off, but we have no idea how many troops Desann managed to empower before we got there.

 

It is possible that Tavion might have returned to the Valley after she found the Scepter, Luke mentions that he needs Kyle to check the Valley.

[Spirit]

Well, even if Tavion somehow recaptured the Valley of the Jedi, the mining operation on Artus Prime was ended by Kyle, and the planet itself was under NR control, so there would be no supply of Artusian Crystals. But it is indeed interesting that we never get to know if Tavion managed to steal the Force power from the Valley.

 

Damn, the more I dig into it the more I'm convinced that the "plot" of JKA just can't be salvaged. Dark Side Jaden had the right idea to keep the scepter and all the stolen Force power for him/herself instead of engaging in necromancy and distributing it to a bunch of incompetent morons in ninja suits like a certain Dark Jedi did. With all that power, Tavion could have become a living God, but noooo...

[eezstreet]

Or y'know, Tavion could've used the scepter to unseal the Valley like she uses it many times to destroy things in JKA.

 

I still think it's possible for Shadowtroopers to exist though. We don't know how many there are left.

Assuming that Tavion got the scepter (because let's be real for a second. This is just complete and utter BS reasoning to bring back an old boss) and I was in her shoes, here's what I would've done:

1. Stage a series of fights to distract the New Republic, primarily so that I can maneuver a stealthy and daring mission to steal the force from the Valley of the Jedi. Masquerade as some new type of enemy so that they are convinced that I no longer exist, and they are forced to move troops away from the Valley.

2. Now that I've got the Valley's power in a scepter, I can start to industrialize production of shadowtroopers on a grand scale. If the Artusian crystals are really like that of a lightsaber, it should be easy to find a similar material from some other planet.

3. Next is the Cortosis. In JK2, it's smuggled from Bespin. But where is this stuff normally found? How is it made? If it's only from Bespin, then I'm out of luck. At this point I still have the element of surprise. I'm lying low and building an army of super soldiers...

4. ...until Kyle Katarn on a monthly visit to the Valley discovers that all of its power is gone.

 

Now I'd we constructed a game based on this framework, ideally Jaden would be inspired by the tales of those who fought against the (fake) enemies, and s/he's discovered his/her way with the Force. After Desann ravaged the Temple, there are much more stringent entry guidelines in place. Naturally because of these restrictions, Rosh would not exist. Jaden impresses them by building a lightsaber, and becomes Kyle's student. Kyle is the perfect foil for Jaden because he's intuitive and savvy (yet somewhat impulsive to act on emotion) and Jaden is a calculating and judgmental pupil (yet they're a bit of a nerd). Jaden overall is a bit arrogant, but over the course of the plot, they grow humble by the experiences with Kyle...or into a complete asshole who feels held back by the training and wants a fast track to success. Overall, the stake for Jaden is an overwhelming fear of failure, which ironically is the same thing that Kyle dreads.

 

Anyway, the plot is simple. We have an intro where we don't actually play as Jaden in the present. We live out one of their fantasies as a Jedi. This draws the player in and we see what they want. Then they awaken from the dream as the ship pulls into the Academy, and we are wowed with the sights, etc. Then we see a few filler missions against generic evil baddies after some training. After that, we accompany Kyle on a trip to the Valley, and along the way we learn more about him as a Jedi Master. But we discover that the Valley's power is gone! And we fight our way out, Kyle and Jaden both kill a Shadowtrooper. On the way back, Kyle explains what a Shadowtrooper is. We need to figure out where Tavion is, because we need to stop her. And stuff. More filler. At the end, we raid a base with Kyle to discover the location of Tavion. At the end of said mission, a slightly hyped up fight between Kyle and Tavion ensues (I can play as Kyle?), and while they fight, Jaden places a tracker on Tavion's ship. Before Jaden returns, they are captured and placed aboard Tavion's ship. Kyle managed to elude Tavion before Shadowtroopers swarmed in. Tavion attempts to draw us into the dark side, blahblah, Kyle comes back, rescues us, and we have discovered the position of her base. Before we can strike, we need to take control of key positions, like mining camps, stuff like that to choke out Tavion's forces. In the end, a great battle ensues and Jaden chooses to either join Tavion in ruling the galaxy (and uses the control they have over the mining camps etc to assert dominance over Tavion. Tavion is once again someone's bitch) or crushing her once and for all.

[Spirit]

Or y'know, Tavion could've used the scepter to unseal the Valley like she uses it many times to destroy things in JKA.

 

 

I still think it's possible for Shadowtroopers to exist though. We don't know how many there are left.

Assuming that Tavion got the scepter (because let's be real for a second. This is just complete and utter BS reasoning to bring back an old boss) and I was in her shoes, here's what I would've done:

1. Stage a series of fights to distract the New Republic, primarily so that I can maneuver a stealthy and daring mission to steal the force from the Valley of the Jedi. Masquerade as some new type of enemy so that they are convinced that I no longer exist, and they are forced to move troops away from the Valley.

2. Now that I've got the Valley's power in a scepter, I can start to industrialize production of shadowtroopers on a grand scale. If the Artusian crystals are really like that of a lightsaber, it should be easy to find a similar material from some other planet.

3. Next is the Cortosis. In JK2, it's smuggled from Bespin. But where is this stuff normally found? How is it made? If it's only from Bespin, then I'm out of luck. At this point I still have the element of surprise. I'm lying low and building an army of super soldiers...

4. ...until Kyle Katarn on a monthly visit to the Valley discovers that all of its power is gone.

 

Now I'd we constructed a game based on this framework, ideally Jaden would be inspired by the tales of those who fought against the (fake) enemies, and s/he's discovered his/her way with the Force. After Desann ravaged the Temple, there are much more stringent entry guidelines in place. Naturally because of these restrictions, Rosh would not exist. Jaden impresses them by building a lightsaber, and becomes Kyle's student. Kyle is the perfect foil for Jaden because he's intuitive and savvy (yet somewhat impulsive to act on emotion) and Jaden is a calculating and judgmental pupil (yet they're a bit of a nerd). Jaden overall is a bit arrogant, but over the course of the plot, they grow humble by the experiences with Kyle...or into a complete asshole who feels held back by the training and wants a fast track to success. Overall, the stake for Jaden is an overwhelming fear of failure, which ironically is the same thing that Kyle dreads.

 

Anyway, the plot is simple. We have an intro where we don't actually play as Jaden in the present. We live out one of their fantasies as a Jedi. This draws the player in and we see what they want. Then they awaken from the dream as the ship pulls into the Academy, and we are wowed with the sights, etc. Then we see a few filler missions against generic evil baddies after some training. After that, we accompany Kyle on a trip to the Valley, and along the way we learn more about him as a Jedi Master. But we discover that the Valley's power is gone! And we fight our way out, Kyle and Jaden both kill a Shadowtrooper. On the way back, Kyle explains what a Shadowtrooper is. We need to figure out where Tavion is, because we need to stop her. And stuff. More filler. At the end, we raid a base with Kyle to discover the location of Tavion. At the end of said mission, a slightly hyped up fight between Kyle and Tavion ensues (I can play as Kyle?), and while they fight, Jaden places a tracker on Tavion's ship. Before Jaden returns, they are captured and placed aboard Tavion's ship. Kyle managed to elude Tavion before Shadowtroopers swarmed in. Tavion attempts to draw us into the dark side, blahblah, Kyle comes back, rescues us, and we have discovered the position of her base. Before we can strike, we need to take control of key positions, like mining camps, stuff like that to choke out Tavion's forces. In the end, a great battle ensues and Jaden chooses to either join Tavion in ruling the galaxy (and uses the control they have over the mining camps etc to assert dominance over Tavion. Tavion is once again someone's bitch) or crushing her once and for all.

 

 

I did some research on cortosis. It's mined on the following planets: Obredaan, Bal'demnic, Duro, Katanos VII. I kinda like your story, but I'd keep Rosh, he's the ultimate asshole, we need one in every game, however, I guess noone will miss him if Tavion kills him (or Jaden does). But there's one thing: how does Kyle know that it was Tavion who stole the Valley's power? She's not the only one to know its location, and draining the power of a Force nexus is beyond anyone's power, or at least that's what Kyle thinks until Luke finds info about the scepter. Sure, he might have a suspicion though. What I find really fascinating is that in this story, Kyle is present on all missions, and there might be a way to make the missions coop mode?

[ensiform]

The only problem with coop mode is that SP engine doesn't have multiplayer capabilities at all. 

 

TBH you wouldn't even need to have playable as Kyle.  Many games get away with just having 2 playable characters for CoOp but story wise there's only one.  Even Cod now?

[eezstreet]

I did some research on cortosis. It's mined on the following planets: Obredaan, Bal'demnic, Duro, Katanos VII. I kinda like your story, but I'd keep Rosh, he's the ultimate asshole, we need one in every game, however, I guess noone will miss him if Tavion kills him (or Jaden does). But there's one thing: how does Kyle know that it was Tavion who stole the Valley's power? She's not the only one to know its location, and draining the power of a Force nexus is beyond anyone's power, or at least that's what Kyle thinks until Luke finds info about the scepter. Sure, he might have a suspicion though. What I find really fascinating is that in this story, Kyle is present on all missions, and there might be a way to make the missions coop mode?

I think Rosh could be kept as an asshole character, sure. A good cast of supporting characters at the Academy with their own goals would be nice.

[Spirit]

I think Rosh could be kept as an asshole character, sure. A good cast of supporting characters at the Academy with their own goals would be nice.

Speaking of the characters of the Academy, am I the only one bothered by the way they are dressed? Especially the Zabrak and Twi'lek females. They would pass better as prostitutes than Jedi.

[MagSul]

Speaking of the characters of the Academy, am I the only one bothered by the way they are dressed?

 

No, you're definitely not!