Siege improvements?

[Raz0r]

What can be done to fix/improve Siege in OpenJK?

 

Will be adding suggestions to the issue tracker.

[eezstreet]

REMOVE THAT BUNNYHOPPING SHIT CODE IS BAD

[Mysterious Stranger]

Make it harder imo. Siege is quite easy >.<

[Raz0r]

I need specifics =p and probably not too many gameplay changing things. Maybe.

[h643]

Maybe the ability to bind keys for switching classes (It is already possible but not easy)

 

Like in ESM http://esm.jkhub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12

[eezstreet]

This might be a bit heavily biased, but...

Demolitions classes are fairly OP, especially on Hoth and Korriban. I think that the max trip mines should be cut down a little bit, and allow for some classes to restore ammo (probably Heavy I dunno?). Also, you should probably fix AMMO_ALL so it isn't silly looking/acting. Lightsabers aren't really highly used on any of the maps (force abuse is pretty crazy though). But that's my two cents.

 

Also fix the doors/bridge on Hoth. And the detpack-win bug on Korriban. Also there's various temp-spec bugs but I'm not aware of all of them.

[h643]

Demolitions classes are fairly OP, especially on Hoth and Korriban

I agree 100%. You can place 10 mines at the same time and on Hoth the defense demo also has 100 hp+armor. In Korriban though it's difficult to kill offense tech without a demo (heal + protect + team heal + mind trick   )

[Mysterious Stranger]

Okay you asked for it,

 

I haven't played Siege on OpenJK (or OpenJK for the matter!), though I'll assume we're talking about default Siege on mostly default settings (g_Forceregentime 200, g_friendlyfire 1, dmflags 0, maybe g_siegerespawn 10) here. I'll also assume you want to make Siege more difficult. The following observations are made in 8vs8 games. Disregard those that OpenJK already fixed.

 

Hoth: Defending is harder than attacking.

 

- So easy for AT-ST to cross the first stage. Just by walking through the mid and the turrets usually don't get enough time to stop it.

- E-web overpowered, can destroy turrets and shield generator.

- Dark Jedi can simply jump over hole (maybe that was devs' intention but it makes it too easy, everyone could go DJ & activate bridge) and cave/ ion control station paths are barely used.

- The famous force-field spamming by Defending team. Though usually mitigated by E-webs.

- Force pulls from Light Jedi gets everyone into hole but Dark Jedi during that passage from droid head area to dropoff point.

- Lift-spamming.

 

Bugs, aside from those already mentioned:
 

- AT-ST invisibility bug.

- Vehicle bugs after leaving AT-ST, small drone floating around, funky animations etc

- Stuck in your own Assault Sentry gun. (same for Desert)

- Droid head can be sabotaged to float up to the ceiling and never return.

- Cloak is buggy. (same for Desert)

- Staff/ Dual sabers, when switched to fast style leaves a invisible blade in the air that deflects blaster fire. (same for Desert)

- Probably not a 'bug' but proximity mines explode when allies go near.

- Also the detpack-win happens in Hoth too.

 

 

Desert: Defending is harder than attacking.

 

- E-web overpowered, breaks down walls fairly quick.

- Half of the Defending team dies from fall damage (assuming you have it on) cause taking the lift is too long.

- Swoop bikes can open doors from a looooooooong distance.

- Light Jedi can simply jump through windows to retrieve droid parts instead of using conventional ways, harder to defend.

- ^ Same for control tower...

 

Bugs:

 

- Team-less player. I've ever seen (been myself too) a Kyle running around with a Lightsaber, not on any team. Might not be Siege-only as I've had that happen in CTF.

- E-web visual bug (E-web stays in-game if someone has been using it and reconnects)

- Famous swoop bike bug if Spectating, player's screen spazzes like you're on drugs.

- Rancor invisibility bug via Force Rage or Protect. (Same for Korriban. Also a spectator bug where if someone spectates a player being eaten there's a Kyle inside the person being eaten as well)

- If you return 2 or more droid pieces at the same time or within a short time frame only one is registered. (I seem to recall a standalone fix somewhere)

- I've ever seen a team spawning in a previous stage's positions. No idea how it happened.

 

 

Korriban: Defense is again disadvantaged...

 

General: Most people don't place mines properly and it blows up in their faces killing themselves. And once Crystals are gotten they are near-impossible to get back especially if carrier is a Jedi Healer.

 

- As mentioned, Jedi Healer overpowered. Have 2 or 3 healing each other and they are unstoppable. Plus they have a REALLY quick run speed.

- Blue Crystal incredibly easy to get with Protect (assume it's mined), then Mind Trick and Absorb. Then roll to mitigate fall damage and lava stream. Also once the lava stream piece of land is pushed, most people can walk past with Absorb and not be pulled into lava.

- Green Crystal also easy to get, I can run into the corridor that has the crushing mechanism as Jedi Healer, stand IN one of the fires with Protect, wait for the thing to lift and run through. Everyone usually avoids the tunnel like a plague so it's clear. Or use Absorb and roll over the middle pushable land piece, assuming someone has pushed it. Or stand at the entrance of tunnel on the edge overlooking lava, then turn on Absorb and jump sky high or roll down to opposite area, clearing lava stream.

 

- Red Crystal hard to defend cause it's a big area.

- Past the Crystal collecting stage, the bridge leading to the Scepter room is barely used because people can just run by the sides.

 

- Dark Jedi 'medic' usually useless, cause you have to stand and point at a exact point in order to dispense ammo. And dispense ammo is all you can do cause Team Energize doesn't give much benefit to certain classes. And you can't heal yourself. It's easy to kill a Dark Jedi medic.

 

- Possible to do insanely long strafe jumps with Light Jedi Demolitions, bypassing mines.

 

 

Others:

 

- If I spectate the highest scorer and enter the game, I will begin with that person's score. It's damn annoying.

-Though may not be due to the gametype, sometimes map changes but player constantly 'falls through a hole' and sees a loading screen / last thing he sees while console shows that people are entering the game.

- Nothing to stop sabotage. I could carry the damn items and run round and round the map.

- Sound glitches. Don't know how it happens but it does.

 

 

As you can see someone obviously loves the Light Side, which is proven in ROTJ ending, SW books, default JKA ending...

[h643]

- E-web visual bug (E-web stays in-game if someone has been using it and reconnects)

- Famous swoop bike bug if Spectating, player's screen spazzes like you're on drugs.

These are fixed in OpenJK. Probably other bugs too but I don't know

 

g_friendlyfire 1

- Probably not a 'bug' but proximity mines explode when allies go near.

Friendly fire + siege is a bad idea      The maps and classes are not designed with friendly fire in mind

 

- Team-less player. I've ever seen (been myself too) a Kyle running around with a Lightsaber, not on any team. Might not be Siege-only as I've had that happen in CTF.

I've seen that too but not recently. No idea how that bug works or is it fixed in OpenJK :unsure:

 

- Sound glitches. Don't know how it happens but it does.

In Korriban it's common and I don't think there is a fix for that

[Mysterious Stranger]

Pfft what's a team game without friendly fire?    It'd be so easy then. I like how FF forces players to somewhat work together. Sucks when it's off and people run around with game objectives.

 

That weird bug that I had in CTF was 'fixed' when I changed model. Don't know about Siege...

[eezstreet]

Teamless player is caused by the same thing as it is in MB2. There's entirely too much data being shoved into configstrings that really doesn't belong there for the sake of siege. (For instance...why do we need to know a players model or force config? Both of those are easily available from the client, given a class index?)

[Jango40]

Teamless player is caused by the same thing as it is in MB2. There's entirely too much data being shoved into configstrings that really doesn't belong there for the sake of siege. (For instance...why do we need to know a players model or force config? Both of those are easily available from the client, given a class index?)

In MB2, it's looked on as an unintended easter egg. 

[eezstreet]

In MB2, it's looked on as an unintended easter egg.

 

Or, "we're very careful due to our extensive background in software development" (read: "we're too chicken to touch the code and everyone else sucks, so yeah")

[Yberion]

...

- Staff/ Dual sabers, when switched to fast style leaves a invisible blade in the air that deflects blaster fire. (same for Desert)

 

Something similar happen in base making saber to block when switching.

[Scorpion]

Korriban is far too easy to defend. Just abuse force push and anyone who isn't Jedi can't get near. If you ARE a Jedi, it's still pretty hard unless you have absorb, and absorb always runs out. Conclusion:Impossible.

[eezstreet]

Korriban is far too easy to defend. Just abuse force push and anyone who isn't Jedi can't get near. If you ARE a Jedi, it's still pretty hard unless you have absorb, and absorb always runs out. Conclusion:Impossible.

+ trip mines on defending team make it damn near impossible

[Mysterious Stranger]

I'd love to play siege with you guys and see how things are

 

I suppose a modified saber throw (less force cost, longer range maybe) might solve the mines...

[h643]

So I decided to create a list of improvements/problems

• Nerf spec-join
• You need to click/hold +attack after dying to ensure you don't miss next spawn
• You don't lose a point if you self-kill by switching class, but client predicts it will
• g_doWarmup is disabled in siege?
• Enter ATST with dropped saber -> call saber back -> leave ATST (maybe other vehicles too)
• Spawn timer should be always visible?
• Cloak / tech ammo can / jetpack fuel meter not removed after death

[ensiform]

Most of those would become moot if we decide to redo siege all together.

[Grab]

Hoth: Defending is harder than attacking.

Not easy after droid, when 5 demos spam mines in that one door. Raven should make second, bigger door.

Yup, and spamming mines on lifts. Is this possible to "remove" thrown mines on model?

 

- Lift-spamming.

Yup, and spamming mines on lifts. Is this possible to "remove" thrown mines on model?

 

- Light Jedi can simply jump through windows to retrieve droid parts instead of using conventional ways, harder to defend.

Yes, but Millennium Falcon is easy to defend, also droid parts are easy to defend from inside, when enemies don't have Jan.

 

- As mentioned, Jedi Healer overpowered. Have 2 or 3 healing each other and they are unstoppable. Plus they have a REALLY quick run speed.

It's okay, cuz Korriban is about mines and grenades spam.

 

- Blue Crystal incredibly easy to get with Protect (assume it's mined), then Mind Trick and Absorb. Then roll to mitigate fall damage and lava stream. Also once the lava stream piece of land is pushed, most people can walk past with Absorb and not be pulled into lava.

- Green Crystal also easy to get, I can run into the corridor that has the crushing mechanism as Jedi Healer, stand IN one of the fires with Protect, wait for the thing to lift and run through. Everyone usually avoids the tunnel like a plague so it's clear. Or use Absorb and roll over the middle pushable land piece, assuming someone has pushed it. Or stand at the entrance of tunnel on the edge overlooking lava, then turn on Absorb and jump sky high or roll down to opposite area, clearing lava stream.

What? Blue and Green are hard to get. Mines spaaam. In Blue room corridor is hard because of mines traps. When you are on top it's hard to jump to crystal because of push spam. Green is long as shit, spam again. But yea tunnel with ceiling trap should be fixed.

 

- Red Crystal hard to defend cause it's a big area.

Yes, defend buff needed.

 

 

- Dark Jedi 'medic' usually useless, cause you have to stand and point at a exact point in order to dispense ammo. And dispense ammo is all you can do cause Team Energize doesn't give much benefit to certain classes. And you can't heal yourself. It's easy to kill a Dark Jedi medic.

Yes, Dark Tech need buff.

 

 

- Sound glitches. Don't know how it happens but it does.

Annoying as fu*k.

 

Also Korriban Jedi Assault and both Scouts are useless. They need buff.

[afi]

Not sure why but most of the siege servers always lagged as hell. Not sure if that's bad optimization (net-code) or just the servers fault...

[Grab]

Most of the siege servers are USA, thats problem.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Fairly sure I could get Blue/Green crystal easy if I have two other medics with me and me being a medic.

 

Someone arrange a siege game! then we can all play