eezstreet

@@ensiform / @@Raz0r

Check your server.cfg for any changes in fs_game.

Nope. I'm just saying it's super hypocritical that we treat models and maps differently from sounds, even though people have worked very hard to make them. I'm sure you could if you had enough $$$, which was my point. What about impressions and impersonators? There's a guy floating around on YouTube that can do a near-perfect Morgan Freeman impersonation, for example. So stealing and IP theft are not major crimes? You can get quite a hefty fine for doing this sorta thing. A C&D is just a warning. They weren't. The New Vegas model wasn't 100% ported, only the mesh was ported, the rest wasn't. The Maul model wasn't ported at all, it was original. Deviance's reskins of Maul (which wasn't ported) weren't 100% ported even if the mesh was. khameir openly ported the Savage Oppress model but the Maul model was made by him, if I understand correctly.

So where are the sounds going to be coming from?

I already brought it up in this thread: fully ported content (duel music packs, 100% ripped models with no new textures/sounds (NEW, -not- base), 100% ripped maps, etc) would be bad, wheras content with some ported content and some not (ie the New Vegas trooper, which had new textures, the multitude of models with ripped sounds, maps with SW music etc etc etc) would be okay. Fully ported content is okay with -written- permission from the copyright holder. All legal responsibility for content falls on the shoulders of the uploader; JKH cannot be responsible for 100% of its files because it might not know where they're ported from, same as how YouTube operates. Get rid of this "Acknowledged Rules" crap on files, it's annoying and makes no sense. Yep. why, you use ported assets in your Starkiller model I'm sure. (maybe not ported, but ripped, which is the same thing really) So let's assume for a minute that we're talking about sounds here, and not models. You might be right that there are some sounds which are directly taken from the movies, but there are some which are individual games' property, such as the Wookiee Bowcaster and Imperial Heavy Repeater sounds from JK2. There's also the subject of KotOR music and sounds, which have been used in a wide variety of models and maps out there, including several which are uploaded on this site. My question is, what's to stop BioWare from issuing a C&D, then? And, another thing. There can be standalone games made with the engine now. But the thing is, none of them can actually release Star Wars content since the license for Star Wars stuff falls to Disney. So what's the difference between a mod and a game, then? One of them relies on JKA to operate, and the other doesn't...so why is it that we're allowed to release content which might be compatible with said other games? Also...y'know...Disney owns LA now so the subject of fan contests and stuff like that might be entirely different now. We just have to wait and see how things go. JKH isn't in the wrong if someone does this - doesn't even matter if they're staff, as long as they don't represent doing so for JKH. This is a pretty good idea though for people that legitimately want these ported models. You know what else is "impossible" to replicate, and yet gets copies illegally distributed of? Pirated games, music, and software. What about all the expensive software used to make a model? What about all the expensive software used to make textures? What about all the expensive software used to write code? I mean sure, you have free alternatives, but you also need a fairly high-end computer in order to run these tools, do you not? Aren't these fairly expensive too? so what you're saying is that it's alright to do stuff illegally because there's no other way unless you pay money...also kinda like pirating movies, games, or y'know, armed robbery, breaking and entering, shoplifting, heists, grand theft auto, etc etc So you're perfectly okay with armed robbery, but not okay with ported models? WTF. so basically what I said before Yep. I totally agree here. Moderators shouldn't be able to delete stuff like that willy-nilly. Omicron was just pointing out that the hub had several models which were ported, and now we have lost access to these models... I knew I should have downloaded the New Vegas trooper.

But suddenly models aren't okay either? I fail to see what makes sounds so different from models in that regard.I'm not arguing that we shouldn't allow new mods with ported sounds, I'm just pointing out a bit of inconsistency.

--> Advertising income <-- Why play the game if you can just watch the movie? <- loss of profits from someone Wow, these guys made this awesome movie! <- taking credit from those who made the game

Well hey, you certainly had the best vision imo for this community.

Some members in this community feel that paying for code and models and making movies out of the JK assets is also fine. So that's kinda irrelevant. This is the best possible solution that I can think of, given the circumstances. In my opinion, many people look down upon porting due in part to the JKFiles nonsense (it really was nonsense how they handled it), and the opinion varies wildly between communities. oh god please don't start being like YouTube.

I'm sorry Caelum, plz don't smite me into oblivion

But how different are sounds and models from being ported? How is that any different? They're both created by people who worked hard to produce them. That's what I'm getting at here. You can't simply say "oh, sounds are okay but models are not okay to port". That doesn't make any sense to me. I think the line ought to be drawn pretty clear here - straight-up ports (without proper consent, i.e. the Grievous model) ought to be banned or heavily restricted, and stuff that uses ported/recorded (they ARE one and the same...just because something isn't directly ported doesn't change the principle) sounds or models ought to be alright. I don't agree with the idea of making this sound specific, I just think that stuff like duel music packs and things of that nature ought to be treated the same as a Grievous model being hosted on this site. What's the difference between a Kenobi/handmade model that uses ripped sounds and a Fallout New Vegas model that uses original sounds and new textures? There isn't one. Both of them use ripped/ported assets, so there ought to be no difference there.

also

Yeah, I agree. If the same sorta thing exists for sounds, I don't see why models are treated any differently. It's hypocrisy on behalf of the community. Now I'm not saying that ported models/sounds/whatever should be the basis of all future mods...I myself am guilty of using ported weapon sounds. But they're a great tool for someone in that particular situation, where they're already putting in the effort of making a map/TC and the only thing that exists to make is sounds...unfortunately it's pretty difficult to get quality sounds without expensive equipment.

Not illegal if you have permission from the original copyright holder. I'm not arguing that these downloads did, but it's ridiculous to use a blanketing principle like that as the basis for your judgment. And I'd like to point out that lots of large mods use ported content in some shape or another, and there is a large quantity of models which use ripped sounds. Why don't you clamp down on models with sounds whose audio is ripped from the movies, hm? It's the same principle at that point. No, it's not the same as a model where the model itself is completely ripped, that's a little bit different. Imo, if the textures themselves on the model are totally different, like they are on that New Vegas model, then I don't see it as a real problem. The problem with porting is that JKFiles went about the C&D received by BioWare completely wrong, they should have placed the burden of truth and legal responsibility upon uploader of the file, instead of dancing around and trying to hunt down files which appear to be ported. Like..the rule that dictates that you need photographic evidence for permission to go through. Not only is this type of thing easily forged (in MS paint no less), it's an unnecessary hassle on legitimate people, and it detriments the quality of the site when downloaders need to see "Oh, I got permission from them, don't worry" when this could be clearly not the case. Four weeks is a completely arbitrary amount of time, also. Files don't need readmes, that's just ridiculous and one of the things that Cael complained about specifically. Do I really need to include a file inside of my zip that tells who I am, what the file is called, what the version is, and possibly the file size and the date are? All of that is easily accessible from the site and bears no repeating.

Says nowhere in the rules that ports aren't permitted. And frankly the rules are kinda insane anyway. And a little birdie told me that Cael hates these rules. /me runs

It depends on how you bind Lua. I don't know about JA++ but JKG has per-map scripts, per-map entities (you specify the entities and what they do in Lua), per-NPC scripts which can also be map-based (it has several hooks such as onDeath, onSpawn, onAttack, etc)

not sure but try compiling on release, not debug What maps do you have in your base? What shaders?

could not find shader for siege class icon

Aha. Carry on. I read that as JACoders/OpenJK for some reason. My bad.

Credit where credit is due. Someone out there slaved away (exaggeration) making those maps, and I'm not sure it's fair for people to essentially rip them off and make a derivative work off of it. Anyone seen Saving Mr. Banks? That's kinda relevant here. It's the same principle as taking a book and making a movie out of it without the authors permission. Except in this case it's more like doing that and then adding the original book text as subtitles. Go through the proper channels, people.

For "something to be said about JA's simplistic nature" - I'm going to assume you meant the combination of fast paced movement and sabers + force. Saying that the game's simple nature is the key selling point is a bit of a stretch (or just flat out wrong). Most people don't play Q3 because it's "simple", after all. As for your JA++ argument: you're kinda assuming that a) JA++ won't grow in such a fashion you're describing with the changes you're mentioning and b) you're also assuming that your idea will bring about such people. I don't doubt the potential of such an idea (I don't honestly have much experience with this subset of the community), however I'm questioning how such a mode or whatever will be a detriment to your work. And think of it this way- if you go standalone, you also have to create your own assets, which involves a lot more than just programming. It's a lot more than you could possibly bargain for. Believe me on that one. You want to break off and generate your own community, and possibly bring in more people from the outside. However you're missing something important: most of the JK2/A community would be well-trained, leaving a significant learning curve. This is potentially very bad for a fledgling community as it risks alienating outsiders. My advice - start up a mod or a fork of JA++, and generate a metric fuckton of frag videos, hud mods, character models, customization through code, stuff like that. Put out as much content as you can, link to people where they can get the game through Steam, partner with ESL or other big leagues, and go that route. It's way less effort, you can produce a lot of REALLY good community content (I understand that this isn't what you're going for, but massive amounts of customization and personalization to the game can be a VERY good selling point; Q3 received lots of praise at the time for this very reason)

@@Raz0r...OpenJK isn't supposed to alter game play like that. Cvar please.

Congratulations on being a master porter. That model looks like garbage though compared to what's in base. Just sayin.

*cough* blade symphony *cough* nexuiz/xonotic/q3/any twitch shooter ever made Frankly JA++ is going to have more of a pull since you already have that community built. Why completely reinvent the wheel? If it's the best CTC/dueling experience ever made, then people will naturally flock to it. Plus you can't even make a new game and JA doesn't have Workshop support so your point is rather moot.

wait what