Sith Enclave on Korriban

[Asgarath83]

I tested the map yesterday. Nice work! Congratulation for all the big job you make!

[Jeff]

Just tryed the map out, excellent job. You've done a great job of capturing the KOTOR feel and improving it. 10 out of 10.

[Darth Reborn]

You have so much plans for it...Space port, Valley of the Dark Lords,even the cave, you still work on it, or you have change you're mind?

[Oobah]

I haven't really changed my mind on more additions to the current map.  I just diverted my energy into other things.  As for the rest of the map related content, maybe after a little while.  Not like the map source is going anywhere anyway.

 

Just gotta be patient and wait.

 

I think the space port portion and into the dark valley might be the most needed for that part.  In depth caves sound great, in theory.  But for core usage I imagine might be a waste of energy in regards to usage of said areas ultimately going to waste.  Like the main cave before the dark valley, no real door on that and it would extend the area size for map portals and could cause some strange little headaches just due to what is rendered or potential fps drops.  I'm sure I can get the main central valley into the 4 core tombs to function fine fps wise.  Be big enough also I imagine.  See what happens when I get to that point.  These are just some ideas off the top of my head, nothing is set in stone as of yet.

[Darth Reborn]

I haven't really changed my mind on more additions to the current map.  I just diverted my energy into other things.  As for the rest of the map related content, maybe after a little while.  Not like the map source is going anywhere anyway.

 

Just gotta be patient and wait.

 

I think the space port portion and into the dark valley might be the most needed for that part.  In depth caves sound great, in theory.  But for core usage I imagine might be a waste of energy in regards to usage of said areas ultimately going to waste.  Like the main cave before the dark valley, no real door on that and it would extend the area size for map portals and could cause some strange little headaches just due to what is rendered or potential fps drops.  I'm sure I can get the main central valley into the 4 core tombs to function fine fps wise.  Be big enough also I imagine.  See what happens when I get to that point.  These are just some ideas off the top of my head, nothing is set in stone as of yet.

Well...all of the tombs was collapsed even in KOTOR2. You have good reason to not do them at all.

[minilogoguy18]

I would really like to see a valley of the dark lords map along with having some of the tombs being open to explore.

[DarthDementous]

Hell, I'm passionate for anything remotely related to KOTOR and just seeing those textures and beautiful lighting sent off nostalgia bells. Sith Academies have been done before, sure but the faith to the original KOTOR design is what really makes this special. In my opinion, to make it the truly best map and the absolute definitive Korriban the Valley of the Dark Lords and Dreshdae is most certainly needed. I'm fairly sure nothing in terms of Dreshdae has been publicly released so it'd be a real treat.

 

Keep up the fantastic work @@Oobah!

 

I swear I am not jealous at all...heh...heh

[Oobah]

There actually was one one pcgamemods.com years ago (Dreshdae) but like a lot of early maps it was a mixture of big open spaces mixed with a lot of empty sorta rooms.  Same with Telos and the jedi academy tied into the telo map.

 

I'm doing some ffa_deathstar cleanup then tests on my personal server, after that I might look at sith academy again.  Maybe not.  Regardless there is already a good core map people can use if they want to.  Don't get your hopes up for another version less I put out the screenshots or start updating this post some more with content related to that map itself.  Everything is either gonna be from here on out is "great map" or "needs more content" or "this needs fixed" sorta deal.  Spaceport and the the main valley itself will fit in fine with the map though, that I do already know in terms of the entity's and so forth.  Just takes a while to make aestetically pleasing content.

 

I was using comparisons from the actual models from kotor in 3ds max while mapping to get this as close as I could to kotor.  I thought of experimenting with using actual models in place of brush work but the problem I seen was you might hit LOD rendering issues and see gaps in the map itself at certain points as you walk around.

 

On an off note:

 

I think the major problem with sith stuff is, yes they've been done, but in terms of quality the jedi side tends to get a few that slip in that really are good/stand out.  While sith ones kinda either need fleshed out more or improved in ways such as lighting and general map flow.  Or outside of content and texture, could really replace jedi side ones.  They aren't distinct or individual.  Seem kinda like a cut and pasted job from things a jedi kinda temple/enclave map might have.  Lot like people who just take a skin, make the flesh pale, and give black robes and say "that's a sith".  Not a whole lot in terms of variety or distinct looks but takes more energy to create something looks cool/great yet kinda fits into the star wars theme.  Force Unleashed is a great example of distinct looks for robes on either side of the field on that I think.

 

Sith Council V2 is a great example of a map that rivals GCX in terms of what it offers content wise, but by todays standards with lot more people who've been doing it for years it needs touched up with lighting and such.  In general I feel more like leaving old works as they are just cause personally, if the people wanna really hammer out something new and great they will, but the communities general phobia of updating old content but having no problem map modding base content (cause Raven and Lucas are companies people can screw with there crap all the want but another player in the community is some kinda god that can't be touched?).  But I doubt anyone will come back to do that.

 

Same with personal community maps should just stay to the community itself since we got lot more content now than we used to.  Only content should be publicly hosted for any real community is either what is publicly released or made by you specificly or the community itself.  It's the same problem with personal skins/models (Feel sorry for hapslashes model these days being on the other end of the creative process now.  We're all guilty of this, doesn't matter what community you're in.).  People want distinct things that represent there communities or more specificly themselves but alot of people over reach and like what they see and using something else is easier than creating work up to that level at the same rate just shows lot more consumers of content than content creators in regards to the JK games themselves.  It's just akward more so these days I think from my stand point, people race around all over the place rather than smell the daisy's like when it was all new and fresh to them.  Not a whole lot in terms of remedy to this honestly beyond locking up your content and only handing out specific things to specific people and maybe getting people on the same page in mindset with perhaps cherishing created content, a locked down invite only community but that can have slower intake of new players so your stuck on old fashioned word of mouth.  But what really is cherishing the content?  Who knows, everyone has a different idea on that matter.  Either way, there is a very strange sense of a lack of respect in the community these days anyway coming from a lot of us in general.  It's where lot of the trouble makers/ddos comes from far as I'm concerned.  Lot of sore thumbs all over the place.

 

Takes more work sure to try and get things up to par to an original piece of work, doesn't matter if it's comics or other games.  I think people always had an expectation of high quality content.  But more so in regards to what they imagine than what they're actually given, since you actually give them something they have no real way of really knowing what to do with it cause they spent more time obsessed over the idea of this golden idol and less time with actual practical use.  The other problem you run into is people aren't as curious or into custom map hosting on more main stream places with lots of players so things turn more into sitting in the base folder ad not getting used like in the past.  People might say base maps help with activity but like usual tons of servers are using base maps and have similar rules, kinda narrow minded if you think you're gonna be a hot place to go to if you do same things as others.

 

[DarthDementous]

@@Oobah Hmm, you wouldn't happen to have that Dreshdae map would you? And take it as slow as you want, rushing into things and stressing just to please the denizens of JKHub is not as important as pacing yourself. If you were to go the whole mile and add in the tomb interiors as well, would it be modelled off KOTOR or by your own style to fit within the style a bit better.

 

I know exactly what you mean when you talk about half-assed Sith maps and skins, there's a much bigger dynamic than just desaturating and having black contrasts. I think what makes this map as well as others aesthetically pleasing is the new textures being used, just sets it apart from the base game. Anyway keep up the good work, I look forward to see what comes out of this.

[NumberWan]

This looks very good, well-planned and designed map. At first I couldn't believe this is actually JA.

 

I think, the chandeliers change the appearance a bit - they add the light to the ceiling, though in KOTOR that part remained quite dark. The light was coming through the holes near the walls, and through the space in the ceiling (you can actually see dust and daylight coming through).

 

But I guess the Academy could have gone through a redesign. Surely these walls have been removed by later Sith, when they constructed a large piramid, which included the Academy, made completely of metal walls and large hallways with lots of electronic lights. but I like the older variant more.

[Oobah]

But I guess the Academy could have gone through a redesign. Surely these walls have been removed by later Sith, when they constructed a large piramid, which included the Academy, made completely of metal walls and large hallways with lots of electronic lights. but I like the older variant more.

 

Basically what they did was ToR turning it into a full scale sith temple on korriban.  The problem isn't the fact it is more of a fusion of imperial with the sith.  The real problem is it turns to much into a Jedi off shoot.  I just think it's kinda lazy if sith have an archives and a big council room and such.  I think the sith academy as it is happens to be a bit more defineable to the sith instead of just a carbon copy.  Even the jedi enclave on dantooine had an underground area with training areas and archives where as with the sith academy it just had core things since it's more in line with survival of the fittest, I don't see sith having an archives because that means more information for everyone to have access to, a dark council kinda area is just a mimic of the regular jedi council where as the main center hub of the academy as it is can be used for a mixture of meetings and fights.  Kinda a lot more get to the point and cut the crap off.  Even a torture chamber area and jail cells make the place come off as more definable.  Kotors sith academy is iconic so it adds to the overall atmosphere.

 

As for lighting under under the floor, in the original model none of the hallways had a floor but due to the camera not being able to look all the way down or up you wouldn't see that.  Probably most likely just a plain diamond style light source like JA.  Even the central ceiling pillars had lights and would of most likely went up to a sky of some sort.  But the core focus here was on the academy itself, little things alter/change like in kotor 1 there was no corner rooms or the floor lights and ceiling skys simply due to the fact it wouldn't add to the map in any way.  Only way floor light would work is if there was some kinda light source down there but this is a place built into a cave, you have to literally look down into those areas to see what is making the light and I doubt anyone is gonna spend all day, like the sky in the ceiling, looking at these things.

 

The ceiling torches in a cave kind of area do make more sense honestly, still means some kinda oxygen source coming through not to mention the fire light and the kinda dim bleak lighting as it is now is more atmospheric but this is just my opinion.  Instead of just little ceiling cuts can just use your imagination and say there are vents cut through the temple all over the place to feed in oxygen.  I can also always change the texture of the ceiling torches if need be so they fit more in line with the academys built into a cave style look.

 

With any kind of exterior added onto the map as well kinda negates the need for those little things anyway just cause people have more breathing room/areas to visit or go to instead of just sitting in the academy all day long.  People wont focus as much on things like the torches in the academy anymore at that point cause they got more leg stretching room.

 

Be awesome if you made the cave. Its a bit of a symbolic thing, in reference to KOTOR 2 and the Temple within it.

 

Caves kinda get to the point like more specific RP sorta maps.  For example: someone could literally setup an entire empire ship with all the imperal computer based areas, but it would come off more like walking through a small corridor office kinda deal.  What would be the fun or interest in literally walking around an imperial equivalent of an office?  Outside of RP it would probably not get used or simply overlooked once the novelty of it wore off since most people want areas for solid ffas these days which the main sith academy centera does provide.  Maybe a corridor shooter but how many servers for specific ffa light end mods are using any sorta guns to do that kinda stuff?  None that I'm aware of.  Not to mention the caves were apart of sith tombs so that = traps and that means needing to add more light sources and traps to fit in with the tomb theme.  Problem is I don't see much use out of anyone using the caves beyond a specific amount of RPers and people who wanna explore.  It's like sith council v2 cave under the bar.  Novetly to it because it's new or no one knows how to get through.  But the magic wears off fast when people burn through the content in a matter of minutes and it can just end up like a dead weight.  Content I wanna setup has specific use or function.  Sure you could argue that point about any area for a map.  But my key focus is on things I see what will more likely to be used vs. things that would only speak to people on the fringes of the community who are into specific play styles.

 

With focus on the space port and at least having access to the main valley I think is more than enough on top of the current sith academy.  These areas would make more sense in regards to function and usage.  The caves are more like a stretching/blood from a stone when I get to that mapping point.  It would probably make a lot of people happy but in the long run its usage would dimish in comparison to the rest of the map.  But again it means higher map ents and more light sources and considering for the more specific cave I would have to do a lot of curved/specific brush work.  Sith tombs really only went to graves which from a gameplay stand point maybe for RP sure it would add to it, but for most players there really would be no point in the room usage.  Not like you get a magical achievement in an older game like this cause you found a sith tomb  Not like you can ransack the graves for loot like in games with item systems or actually make use of the other tomb with the star map either. 

 

I think in general it would be great to map out whole temples/cities for usage but even without the engine limitations what would really be the point?  You have a smaller limitation of people who can access a full server hosted, even with 64 player support, you would most likely end up with a lot of chat spam and people just sitting in hub kind of spots like people do in stormwind in WoW.  RPers and curious people would be the ones who wanna get more into the atmosphere and so forth but this is something that caters to a smaller group in the grand scheme of things.  As for being curious, it wears off once people go through everything which anything is new to people they will do everything in there power to see every little bit of content but in the end the curious folks will eventually evaporate anyway.  Like jedi's home v2, they aren't map secrets anymore, most everyone knows about them these days and more than likely most areas go dead empty now anyway beyond the usual break the walls to just open all the content up but at that point it's just a standard area anyone can use which again, no on really does.

 

Anything I've mapped out is stuff I know I would wanna use and test and get the full amount out of it.  I don't just make content to show off because that's really boring.  I find it stupid to make content I'm not gonna get life out of or enjoy or actually think ot myself about hosting on a server.  What would be the point in producing work like that?  Just feels dead and empty as a reflection on the creator who produced the piece of work as well.  Even on my server I got recently I've been doing plenty of live map testing because sometimes finding bugs that way works better than isolated tests cause it gets you in the mindset of being on a server with players and people who walk around to take in the view, what kinda bugs/issues are they going to see or run into?  Only one real way to find that out.  Creating content alone for looks and throwing it out there is just bland, no real fun in doing that.  I'd rather be a bit more practicle than that.

[Oobah]

Well, not trying to get into a debate here, but you made a point, so I feel compelled to answer.

 

 

Its not just Role-Players who would use it. Most maps have a bit of, tradition in them per say. By this, I would say, I am for certain, as well as other people are going to be using this map. The game is building up in popularity. Those areas, like in other maps, build things for people to use as activities, events. Clan things, besides RP, to build tradition, history, and the like. Of course, I completely understand the point you made, respect it, and once again, thank you for making this map. I will be using it exclusively in combination with my own map.

 

 

 

Thank you for all your hard work.

 

I do agree fully with the sense of it adds to the map.  But I feel for something like JA/JO/DF2 we aren't on the same level with the creation scale with an mmo hence why we offer tons of creations so each one is used for specific use because we can't put it all in one piece of creation.  I feel it is better to flesh out specific content rather than trying to make content be anything or everything to anyone.  I think it would do better to have a trial map for the sith tombs be specific to that.  Where as with the sith academy which is what I setup, it's better to tag on things that speak to the specific core of the map.  Things like the caves/tombs are like apendages can function and flow with the core map itself, they aren't always or necessarily needed.  It's all a matter of trying to keep more so in line with the core map and what will live/used for the core map vs. things that may add to a map but wont truly give the map more life.  It's optional level of content which in a sense I think would be great for a map, but since we're dealing with a core map idea, would do just as much justice on its own terms rather than trying ot sandwhich in the content into a map also.  Basically it's better that all content is givin the same level of life/work rather than wedging it in because wedged in content don't do as much justice as something fully fleshed out with proper level of bug fixes.  Wedged in level for things with the tomb comes with needing to setup traps and npc spawns which wont truly give more life to the map but might go unused and it can be painful for anyone to create content but people mgiht overlook the content depth or addition to it.  So my focus goes back to the 3 core basics to this map which I personally feel will be used or given life which are the spaceport/shops, academy, and the valley itself.

 

Now of course I did Massassi Temple with the yavin_trial addition despite lacking in some sense compared to the original SP variation, but I run into the same problem of trying to work into the hard cap game limits (which the tombs might border on with lights/ent usage), and that means people having to go out and use specific content to make full use of it provided I wish to stretch beyond the limits in place and I'd rather people use the core game over custom content because the core game alone is great regardless simply because JA hit a cap that people have greater breathing room vs. JOs.  My aim is to work within the core game limits more so rather than pushing the hard cap because adding more content to make use of game 1 specific basis of content being the priority might detract from what I'm trying to portray which is basically and overall picture which I think has more life to it than 1 thing being the pirority.  I hope that makes sense aka an overall picture instead of 1 thing being the core basis of the entire content given.

 

Also I'm glad you enjoy the hard work I put into the creation also.