WIP Fixing the dotXSI 3.0 Exporter for 3ds Max...

[Archangel35757]

@ contacted me about problems with the Max2012 64-bit dotXSI exporter not showing up after he installed it on his Windows 8 64-bit system.

 

https://jkhub.org/images/34J7BiT.png

 

Has anyone else ran into this issue? Anyone using Windows 8?

 

My thought is that Max2012 isn't compatible with Win8... and according to the Max2012 service packs & updates readme file-- it does not list Win8 as a supported OS.

 

@, are you successfully running 3dsMax 2012 in a Windows 7 compatibility mode? Do you have the latest service packs and updates from Autodesk installed?

 

3dsMax 2014 is the first version that officially supports Windows 8.

[Lamented]

I would think so.

 

P.S., sorry for not posting sooner. I would have. :|

[Archangel35757]

@ contacted me about problems with the Max2012 64-bit dotXSI exporter not showing up after he installed it on his Windows 8 64-bit system.https://jkhub.org/images/34J7BiT.png

Has anyone else ran into this issue? Anyone using Windows 8?

My thought is that Max2012 isn't compatible with Win8... and according to the Max2012 service packs & updates readme file-- it does not list Win8 as a supported OS.

@, are you successfully running 3dsMax 2012 in a Windows 7 compatibility mode? Do you have the latest service packs and updates from Autodesk installed?

3dsMax 2014 is the first version that officially supports Windows 8.

Problem solved by @@AshuraDX. Thanks! He caught that he had put it in a "plug-ins" folder-- rather than the "plugins" folder. So @, let me know if you have questions after reading the readme file on exporter usage.

[Lamented]

Definitely.

[Archangel35757]

@@Milamber, @@Scooper, @@DT85, @@Psyk0Sith:

 

According to Rich Whitehouse, "...GLM as a format only stores vertex normals... ...by default Noesis will only write per-vertex normals." "...Everything would be converted to vertex normals [from Noesis] when targeting GLM as the concept of smoothing groups doesn't exist in the [GLM] format itself."

 

So for now @@Milamber... use the vertex normals option. I honestly never looked into this area of the original source code-- as it didn't seem broken. @@DT85 (to my knowledge) has not had any issues with getting his models and normal maps looking proper in-game.

 

I will look into this area of the code to see what it is doing-- and if necessary... create an option to export vertex normals respecting smoothing groups (which it could be doing already and just mis-labeled).

 

Please post here to describe your issue, post screenshots of model and export options, etc. Thanks!!!

[AshuraDX]

@@Milamber, @@Scooper, @@DT85, @@Psyk0Sith:

 

According to Rich Whitehouse, "...GLM as a format only stores vertex normals... ...by default Noesis will only write per-vertex normals." "...Everything would be converted to vertex normals [from Noesis] when targeting GLM as the concept of smoothing groups doesn't exist in the [GLM] format itself."

 

So for now @@Milamber... use the vertex normals option. I honestly never looked into this area of the original source code-- as it didn't seem broken. @@DT85 (to my knowledge) has not had any issues with getting his models and normal maps looking proper in-game.

 

I will look into this area of the code to see what it is doing-- and if necessary... create an option to export vertex normals respecting smoothing groups (which it could be doing already and just mis-labeled).

 

Please post here to describe your issue, post screenshots of model and export options, etc. Thanks!!!

neither had I but I "explode" my smoothing groups before exporting , actually before rigging for Jedi Academy

[Milamber]

Aye I pretty much concluded that was the issue, and already talked with Ashura about how to solve it (exploding thingie)

 

 

and yeah vertex normals respecting smoothing groups would be nice ^^ Means I could actually use them.

 

(i'll add in the details of my issue in a lil while)

[Tempust85]

Just do your smooth groups, select them and detach to element.

[Milamber]

yes, that would be my solution  Thanks though

[Archangel35757]

@@Milamber -- so @@DT85's solution to select your smoothing group and detach to element preserves the behavior of your smoothing group when you then export using Vertex Normals option, yes? So your model now looks proper in-game?

[Milamber]

Haven't tried it yet I'll do it soon and give you feedback if it worked or not.

[Archangel35757]

I have just submitted a re-compile of the dotXSI 3.0 Exporter (1.8 Beta) for 3ds Max 2015 (64-bit)... this should also work in 3ds Max 2016.  I did not do a thorough testing-- only verified that the plugin successfully loads and launches in both Max 2015 and 2016.

 

Maybe @@AshuraDX or @@DT85 can give it a thorough test.

[Tempust85]

I don't have either of those versions.

[minilogoguy18]

Why not just download some 30 day trials to test?

[Tempust85]

Because it takes me ages to download large files - Aussie broadband speeds suck, thanks to our current government.

[Archangel35757]

Why not just download some 30 day trials to test?

It's not worthwhile to download a trial... and the downloads seem more bloated-- taking hours. I have both 2015/2016 installed due to my maintenance subscription... I was just too lazy to do a thorough test.

[Archangel35757]

Ok... so @@DT85 contacted me and shared the following quotes via Skype:

 

...here's the two .xsi files. one is exported from max (your plugin), the other from xsi mod tool:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jaukjyvhfuzwian/normals_test.zip?dl=0

 

...should help you diagnose hopefully.

 

YES! I exported the scene from xsi mod tool, converted to GLM via carcass and it retained the normals! so if you fix the normals export for your exporter, then it will work nicely

 

I know you have a few other projects, but i'd love it if you can get this fixed asap. I'm working on models for MB2 and i could really use custom normals

 

So I'm going to prioritize my fix-it "To Do" list on the dotXSI exporter plugins and recompile and release a v1.9 for Max6 to Max 2016.

 

One question I have (@@DT85, @@AshuraDX, @@Scooper) is that these custom normals require explicit use of an "Edit_Normals" modifier-- so how does this relate to @@Scooper's smoothing group snippet (where basically the code detaches the mesh to elements by smoothing groups (to preserve smooth groups-- which in essence is preserving the mesh element normals)... seems like both features are not needed, correct? Or are they both needed?

[AshuraDX]

Ok... so @@DT85 contacted me and shared the following quotes via Skype:

 

So I'm going to prioritize my fix-it "To Do" list on the dotXSI exporter plugins and recompile and release a v1.9 for Max6 to Max 2016.

 

One question I have (@@DT85, @@AshuraDX, @@Scooper) is that these custom normals require explicit use of an "Edit_Normals" modifier-- so how does this relate to @@Scooper's smoothing group snippet (where basically the code detaches the mesh to elements by smoothing groups (to preserve smooth groups-- which in essence is preserving the mesh element normals)... seems like both features are not needed, correct? Or are they both needed?

both would be great, as the edit normals modifier gives more control about meshnormals than plain smoothing groups do

smoothing groups are just a simple automated way to get averaged normals for areas of the mesh, while the edit normals modifier allows you to precisely edit single normals (or groups of them) and set thme to a specific direction

 

essentially they both do the same - so instead of pslitting by smoothing groups consider splitting vertices by vertex normals and both should work along fine

[Tempust85]

But will we be able to still export custom normals with your exporter (once you fix it) if we have collapsed the modifier stack?

[Archangel35757]

Leaving the EditNormals modifier on the stack would simplify checking for it and interfacing into it-- else use smooth groups.

 

I also found this on CGTalk forums:

 

…if you intend to venture into the sdk for your exporter the IGame wrapper will handle explicit normals right off the bat (it will also compute tangents and binormals for you too). The sample IGame exporter in the sdk is a good place to start.

So I intend to look at the IGame exporter source code for how they handle explicit normals versus normals computed from smooth groups. I'll report back after that...

[Archangel35757]

So here are the Type Normals export options I plan to add to the v1.9 dotXSI 3.0 Exporter (shown in red):

 

 

Thoughts (@@DT85, @@AshuraDX, @@Xycaleth, @@Psyk0Sith)?

[Tempust85]

Sounds good, but is there a need to keep face?

[Archangel35757]

Sounds good, but is there a need to keep face?

Yeah, I plan to keep it. Maybe someone will want to texture crystals or a disco ball.

[Archangel35757]

@@minilogoguy18, @@DT85, @@Psyk0Sith :

 

While I fix the vertex normals for the 3dsMax dotXSI exporter, we may still have an issue with the UV seams from the Carcass compiled model.

 

I understand the long-term historical problem of UV texture seems showing on models-- but I thought that was a result of the texture artist not painting perfectly blended textures across those seams. What DT85 and @@AshuraDX were describing is that Carcass appears to have non-uniform UV normals along the seam texture vertices.

 

@@minilogoguy18 - Does this happen with dotXSI models created and exported from Softimage/ModTool & Carcass?

 

EDIT: Here's a Maxscript tool to set customized vertex normals by weighting by both face angle and face area ( it should work in versions back to 3dsMax 6):

 

https://github.com/ByteHazard/wnormals

[minilogoguy18]

@@Archangel35757 I'd have to check but before I do I can tell you what really happens. The normals aren't exactly the problem, what happens is the edges along the UV boundaries are disconnected which then in turn alters the normals as that is what happens when you have a boundary edge. You need to get to the source as to why the edges along UV boundaries become disconnected, it seems to be something either with carcass or the MDX format itself.

 

EDIT: Well, seems that it is just limited to 3ds Max because Kain only shows different normals along mesh boundaries, UV seams do not appear to be split, or at least I couldn't see it.