Problem with imported models in Blender

[Vitéz]

Hey! I have a serious problem with frankeinsteining models with Blender. I saw the same problem with models made by others, so I'm not sure this question has been answered in the past or not. I've uploaded a picture, showing 3 Palpatine models. The first one is a simple import of the model in Blender. As you see is painted a red circle to point to the problem. The 2nd one is the same as the first, I just smoothed the hips to focus the "buggy" (?) part in Blender. So, where you can see that "edge", there are double vertices, IMO this is what generates the bug, what can be seen ingame on the 3rd picture. There is a "breakpoint", what modifies the light effects on the body ingame, the back of Palpatine's hips is darker, but it'd have the same "brightness", as the front of the hips has. If I remove/merge the double vertices, the buggy part disappears (I mean its fixed), however I cant export the model back to glm, because it says "cant load surface, UV seam found, split the meshes at UV seams". My point is: I want to remove that buggy part, what is shown in the red circles, but I dont know how to do it without breaking the model and/or the UV map. If someone knows how to do this, please let me know how to do it. Its really important, because I have the same problem on almost every part, where there are double vertices, like there are on Palpatine's hips, and the models I frankeinsteined are basically useless because of this problem.

[mrwonko]

There's nothing you can do.

 

Ideally the exporter would split seams automatically and keep the proper normals so it looks smooth, but since it requires a cut the only way it will ever look smooth is if it is flat.

[Vitéz]

Meh, bad news, that means almost every model made by Blander is useless... unless we're lucky with the model of course. Thanks for the answer tho.

[Azatha]

I'm also having this issue. Is there really nothing possible? On my model the difference makes the head look 5x darker than the body under light, on an area that used to be a smooth transition:

 

Those 2 parts were already connected on the original model, I made no changes.

[mrwonko]

You can write a better exporter.

[Azatha]

Not sure why I recieved such a snappy reply. I was just looking for a solution outside the scope of altering the plugin. But maybe someone else who knows some python could chip in to add the part to make Blender retain Normals on import/export. I have no idea how to code. I did notice today that the issue seems to happen upon import, not just export, if that's of use to anyone trying to fix this.

[mrwonko]

Because I didn't feel like writing much; I just wanted to tell you that there is no solution as long as the exporter has the issues it currently has.

 

The problem is that Blender usually calculates normals automatically and JA models are split into multiple meshes, mostly because of UV seams and varying textures, but also due to dismemberment. Especially the latter is a difficult problem; seams at least could be automatically created while keeping normals intact, textures are somewhat more tricky... but for dismemberment you must split meshes, and that screws with your normals.

 

In short: in order to fully fix this problem you need to manually adjust the normals of your model; I believe there's a plugin/modifier for that? Though if it's a modifier then my exporter might currently ignore it.

[Azatha]

I tried the modifier for normal adjustment, but upon exporting the model defaulted back to the messed up normals. Seems it imports and strips them, then strips them again upon export. Out of curiosity do you have any intention of updating your plugin to fix this particular thing?

[mrwonko]

As I said, the exporter mostly ignores modifiers. I certainly have no intention of looking into this before September, if at all.

[Azatha]

You said 'might currently ignore', It was worth trying everything.

[mrwonko]

I wasn't quite sure since it's been years since I worked on the exporter, but you've confirmed it.

[Archangel35757]

Once you apply your normals modifier and adjust... can you collapse it back to a mesh or poly object and preserve your normal changes???

[Cerez]

On a side note it may be worth switching to 3DS Max. I love open source, but Blender plugins seem to be misbehaving quite a lot, depending on how they're written and how they've aged with the new releases of Blender.

 

In my personal experience working with 3DS Max is more stable. Don't kill me, just a thought.

[mrwonko]

If you have a couple grand to spare for 3DS Max, sure.

[Azatha]

I have used 3DS Max in the past. The trouble with that one is that it doesn't import weights the way the blender plugin does, meaning you have to know how to redo them. Even if you do know, it can be quite time consuming.

[Cerez]

If you have a couple grand to spare for 3DS Max, sure.

 

Not if you're related to Captain Jack Sparrow. Then you don't need the money, just your good looks.

 

I have used 3DS Max in the past. The trouble with that one is that it doesn't import weights the way the blender plugin does, meaning you have to know how to redo them. Even if you do know, it can be quite time consuming.

Fair enough. That sounds like a good reason to stick with Blender, in that case.

[mrwonko]

Fair enough. That sounds like a good reason to stick with Blender, in that case.

Well, that depends entirely on the plugin. Importing weights was one of my goals with the importer, but I'm sure it would be possible with 3DS as well.

[Azatha]

It is possible, but we'd need someone to code/release that plugin as we are not all so talented.

[Cerez]

Well, that depends entirely on the plugin. Importing weights was one of my goals with the importer, but I'm sure it would be possible with 3DS as well.

True, but I haven't found such a plugin for 3DS yet.

 

I've used Blender as well and (I think) your plugin to study the weights on Raven's and Haps' models. The plugin worked fine for me, though, with Blender v. 2.68. Before that I had downloaded a later version and there were bugs with that one.

 

Maybe try version 2.68, @@Azatha.

[Azatha]

I downgraded my Blender plugin to 2.68, imported the original model and exported it. Unfortunately the problem remains. From what I've read in other threads, some people get the issue and some don't. I don't know why, maybe just the way their model is made. But if the plugin itself isn't built to handle normals, it's probably not going to work regardless of version if that particular model gets the problem.

[mrwonko]

I downgraded my Blender plugin to 2.68, imported the original model and exported it. Unfortunately the problem remains.

Yes, as I already said, it's a problem with the plugin.

 

If you keep pestering I may look into fixing it and upgrading to a more recent Blender version in September.

[Azatha]

*pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester pester*

 

[Archangel35757]

It is possible, but we'd need someone to code/release that plugin as we are not all so talented.

I wrote a Max8 Maxscript dotXSI Importer script... it works just fine up to Max2012. It imports skin weights. Check it out.

 

To import a GLM and preserve skin weights-- use Noesis and then save as another 3D format you can import into your 3D app. Remember the models are scaled down 64%... do you'll need to rescale by 1.5625

[Azatha]

What is Noesis? A Google search brings up a few different things. Which of your files is the right one? I assume we also need dotXSI? I'd like to give it a try for the time being but might need a bit more explanation, as it's not as straight-forward as using just Blender. The good thing about the Blender plugin is that you don't need multiple programs and conversions to get the job done. Oh, and most important - does it preserve normals?

[Archangel35757]

Look in the Utilities section for a Noesis download link. It is a 3D model viewer and format converter supporting scores of formats.