How many SP players are there here?

[Futuza]

But I'm too weak! Oh, don't kill me, please....

Protip: timescale .2

[eezstreet]

It's because the physics are better, SP and MP are 2 different game engines. Problem is that no SP NPC will ever be as challenging as a real live person who is totally unpredictable.

Not really. The SP NPCs were shoddily converted to be in MP, but unfortunately there's various AI artifacts.

Also this is incorrect, the physics in SP aren't better by any means. If anything they're more responsive due to the lack of networking in SP. If you're referring to movement physics, this isn't exactly accurate either, since I've coded them into MP a while back (before the source code got released afaik)

I think the really cool, undervalued things in SP would be the way homing rockets move. Unfortunately they don't exactly move as cool as in SP due to the networking issues.

[Dusty]

^One reason I like SP is that the hit detection feels more smooth and a bit less dodgy IMO than in MP. This translates to better saber fights as it favors hit and run game play a bit less.

 

My least favorite things about MP were that they took out reliable blocking from JK2 and then as usual strong style is king among single saber.

 

Also, honestly, NPCs can be pretty tough IMO. The problem is they're easily outsmarted through cheap tactics. In JK2 NPCs, or at least gunners anyway, seemed smarter, as they were a lot less static. They'd run around and chase you/run away a lot more and they were scripted to use alt-fire much more often.

[eezstreet]

Just jump on their heads. Game = won.

[minilogoguy18]

My least favorite things about MP were that they took out reliable blocking from JK2 and then as usual strong style is king among single saber.

 

Not really, red is way too slow, you could use red vs me and I'll guarantee you that I'll win with yellow without you landing a single hit.

 

You just don't learn any real saber techniques in SP, the NPC's just aren't as aggressive and unpredictable as a person. You also should never rely on blocking ever, not even for a simple blaster shot, MP will teach you that.

[Dusty]

You just don't learn any real saber techniques in SP, the NPC's just aren't as aggressive and unpredictable as a person. You also should never rely on blocking ever, not even for a simple blaster shot, MP will teach you that.

 

Funny how in a star wars game its so much more difficult to deflect things with a saber then outright dodge them. Maybe I play MB2 too much, I dunno. You shouldn't be able to rely on auto-blocking, (this is where MB2 gets it right, you have to manually block). But it should block half-hearted attacks and what not for you consistently, especially with the player using the right angles and movements. Auto-block shouldn't do very much at all on it's own because it's just that, an auto-block.

 

This is one thing I like about SP at least. Blocks are consistent. You can "perfect-block" and aim your saber to block attacks (well they made it a bit difficult with some of the walk/run animations...). The auto-block can catch a few things out of the way on it's own but ofc it's not reliable. The only thing is blocking period in SP isn't reliable simply because 70% of attacks crush your guard.  

 

Same thing with blaster bolts. The auto-block is automated but you're responsible to direct it. You have to time dodges so you dodge during the cooldown and deflect in-between, and to this end you can deflect shots back into enemies. They have a similar counter system with saber slashes but it's difficult to use (you have to parry then do an autoaim slash, which if done fast enough rips through an NPCs guard).

 

In base MP its just stupidly random in saber v saber blocking at least (or it definately seems that way). A bot can slash at me the exact same way 5 times and the auto-block will only act 2-3 times for single saber medium style. That makes breaking/slipping through someone's guard have an element of luck and randomness. The reason I dislike strong style is it screws up saber duels IMO. They turn into hoppy wiggle-fests because of Strong and staff spam. I feel like it should've been tuned differently.

 

My 2 cents.

[Ping]

I think we can all agree that the sabering is a tad little bit broken in many respects.

[katanamaru]

I'm actually a fan of the idea of auto blocking. As a longsword fencer I can train my parries to get better at them and predict certain strikes from opponents, but when they attack I have to react quickly. My muscle memory has to be trained enough to pull off the block. There is no way to 'turn off offense and engage defense.'

 

Besides, having force heal is basically blocking after the fact.

[Dusty]

^My point in that was that an auto-block takes no skill unless it's partially manual/controlled by the player.

 

And to minilogoguy, yeah I agree Medium style if used carefully can wipe the floor with strong, I won't lie. But still strong wiggle and the ensuing baseball bat swinging duels always get on my nerves.

[eezstreet]

I'm actually a fan of the idea of auto blocking. As a longsword fencer I can train my parries to get better at them and predict certain strikes from opponents, but when they attack I have to react quickly. My muscle memory has to be trained enough to pull off the block. There is no way to 'turn off offense and engage defense.'

 

Besides, having force heal is basically blocking after the fact.

One could argue that if someone becomes good at a computer game, the response to block becomes automatic, similar to your muscle memory. After all, you don't manually think to press space bar to jump in JA, but you do so. It's not a mechanical process really.

On the other hand, autoblock would be the equivalent of you sword fighting and just magically parrying everything. It doesn't work like that.

[Syd0w]

I've always had the idea of having a button to toggle between offense/defense "styles" where the defense style would let you autoblock everything except very strong hits that count against a block "pool".  I think it could still take skill because I'd imagine there being a certain amount of time for you to switch bake to defense after making an offensive move, but something like that would need more discussion, testing, etc.  I'm certain that it would be a pain for the last animators/coders we have even if they did develop a system similar to this.

[Circa]

I've always had the idea of having a button to toggle between offense/defense "styles" where the defense style would let you autoblock everything except very strong hits that count against a block "pool".  I think it could still take skill because I'd imagine there being a certain amount of time for you to switch bake to defense after making an offensive move, but something like that would need more discussion, testing, etc.  I'm certain that it would be a pain for the last animators/coders we have even if they did develop a system similar to this.

I love this idea but it would take away from the JA and JO experience. That method is how saber combat is is every other Star Wars game, and though it works quite nicely, it's one of the main reasons people like JA: for the unique saber combat.

[Syd0w]

I don't know of any other SW game that has anything like I said, could you enlighten me?

[Circa]

I don't know of any other SW game that has anything like I said, could you enlighten me?

Maybe not EXACTLY like what you said but the Episode III game had something similar, and so did TFU. Similar, but I think your idea is definitely one to consider.

[katanamaru]

One could argue that if someone becomes good at a computer game, the response to block becomes automatic, similar to your muscle memory. After all, you don't manually think to press space bar to jump in JA, but you do so. It's not a mechanical process really.

On the other hand, autoblock would be the equivalent of you sword fighting and just magically parrying everything. It doesn't work like that.

I see the point you are making and agree with what you stated. I didn't go into great detail with my blocking example and it hurt my point.

 

The downside to parrying in a match is that even if I choose the correct parry, like left pflug, I may execute it incorrectly, or my opponent may wind around it. Either way I still get hit.

A block button makes the character block attacks gauranteed (not taking specific games or systems into account.) Imagine if both these were combined: the player sees an attack coming and pushes block, but still gets hit. People would rightly hate that.

 

And my parrying is magical!

 

I've always had the idea of having a button to toggle between offense/defense "styles" where the defense style would let you autoblock everything except very strong hits that count against a block "pool".  I think it could still take skill because I'd imagine there being a certain amount of time for you to switch bake to defense after making an offensive move, but something like that would need more discussion, testing, etc.  I'm certain that it would be a pain for the last animators/coders we have even if they did develop a system similar to this.

Raz0r thought about doing this before in a mod of his. Something like the character is in medium stance by default. If you hold the right mouse button you'd go into the blue stance. So if you wanted to be defensive you could switch to blue and attack or let go of the button and go more offensive.

[CaptainCrazy]

^My point in that was that an auto-block takes no skill unless it's partially manual/controlled by the player.

 

And to minilogoguy, yeah I agree Medium style if used carefully can wipe the floor with strong, I won't lie. But still strong wiggle and the ensuing baseball bat swinging duels always get on my nerves.

 

^My point in that was that an auto-block takes no skill unless it's partially manual/controlled by the player.

 

And to minilogoguy, yeah I agree Medium style if used carefully can wipe the floor with strong, I won't lie. But still strong wiggle and the ensuing baseball bat swinging duels always get on my nerves.

 

 

I do kinda agree but the dueling system in MB2 is kinda sluggish so it doesn't take an expert to evade an assault.  However i understand that they are making this better so we'll see 

[eezstreet]

Essentially the way JKG handles it is simple. You have a BP meter and Force Power, which acts as your offensive force. Left mouse attacks, right mouse blocks, and right mouse + left mouse projectile blocks. Blocking and moving a certain way affects how you lose BP for each hit. (You can completely negate attacks if done correctly) The process is visualized on the character and the only difference between stances is the speed of attacks and how much BP is drained.

Force power is drained for each swing. The less force power you have, the slower you swing. Regen rates aren't punishing, so the combat remains fast paced. Each style is also unique in how it handles, all things considered. Our currently tested style is Medium, which encourages a blend of defensive and offensive tactics (read: it isn't "specialized" one way or another...each style is feasible in both defense and offense, it's just how you use them that matters) It isn't so much about what style you use against what, but more like correctly utilizing your toolbelt of abilities. Katas are largely removed, some special moves exist, but they aren't able to be spammed for quick kills.

[Onysfx]

Interesting eezstreet. It seems your putting both OJP and MBII elements into the JKG saber system, plus the faster force regen so you don't lose all your FP from attacking like in OJP...nice!

[Futuza]

^^Yep, its by far my favorite saber system for JKA that I've ever used. 

[Stoiss]

and the Manuel Block system have a meaning when it is used not like it was going to be in MB2, i never seeing a video where it was used, i once tryed to master it in b18- and b19 but it was not working right at all

what eezstreet did to this system was realy somthing new that was makeing the gameplay alot more fun and hader to master but easy to use

[Onysfx]

Definitely looking forward to it. MBII's saber system is awful (Sorry developers). Slash, slap, slash slash, slap, is all I see. Really, when I began in the MBII saber system, I never slapped my opponent, and because of that I lost every duel, even if I PBed most attacks. It's not just that, but moving your saber into the opponents attacks? And the insane wiggling of your saber? Cmon.

 

Okay, so devising a saber system based around free movement in JKA isn't easy, but I will give MBII credit for one thing though, the sabertists vs gunner system is great!...except for the forward slash passthroughs. xD

[Daedra]

SINGLE PLAYER!!!! all day

I don't play MP. I tried it once, but got hacked the f*ck up lawl

 

I prefer single player mods, because I like the freedom to walk around slowly checking out the level and details and not be sniped in the back o tha head with a concussion rifle while doing so. I like storylines. I find MP games a bit too fast paced for me.

 

Ive only downloaded a few mods, and mainly to check out their shaders rofl seriously. So I'd say my favorite type os SP mod, would be the animations. Theres a lot of fun things you can do there. So probably @@katanamaru 's backhand saber style would be my fav =P

 

I would like to see some code mods for SP. Someone fix that damn "Ran out of transform space for Ghoul2 models: Adjust mini-heapsize in SV_Spawnserver"   or whatever that is when you have a character with a bit more tri's. That and More UI mods. Ive done amazing things with the Ui, I'd like to see someone take it to the next level and really destroy a nice new modern UI for JA

 

Did you ever find a fix to that error for miniheapsize?

[katanamaru]

I believe it was corrected in the OJK mod. 

[JediBantha]

I keep on playing the SP portion of the game because I like to work towards an objective with my chosen weapons/powers, rather than just kill/explode things aimlessly.

 

I prefer SP to MP, because weapons & Force powers aren't as restricted in Singleplayer, and like I said above, I like working towards an objective, with all my choices taken into account.

 

My favorite SP mod would have to be Eve of Redemption. It was unique in it's own right: Imperial Sewers (I think), the cantina, and the final map. Most other mods I've seen were mostly film re-enactments.

 

I'd like to see the DF2 mod that's still in development; Playing through JK1 and MotS made me realize what I missed out on, and I'd also like to see how JK2 and JKA would play out if Kyle really DID choose the Dark Side at the end of JK1.

 

(Late post lolol)

[katanamaru]

So after all this time it seems SP is still enjoyed by a large part of our community! Rock on peeps! \m/ \m/