Wolfeye

This is easily the last conversation I ever thought I'd see in my lifetime. Jedi vs Cthulhu.

I think the best way to answer is in the format of Rosh toward Jaden:

"You didn't stand a chance!"

Yep! Project is still going and is being actively worked on daily. ( https://discord.gg/rXuAeNm ).

"Remake" is an odd word for it. I prefer the term "revamp" in this context since it's basing everything off JK, but then making improvements everywhere improvements need made. 

As a Palemoon user, I can confirm Palemoon is trash. That's why I use Google Chrome for most things, or just go to tor personally. Palemoon is just emergency browser.

Might give Brave a shot though.

Have you tried just reskinning the Imperial miner guy who has a lemon-shaped head/helmet? 

Our team for OSP is working on exactly that (as the link above explains, we're looking for more staff to contribute right now) although SP is more of an afterthought than MP, as its main purpose is as a multiplayer combat game. But as the lore writer for the team, I can say that SP is definitely being kept in mind.

Though how you described it is essentially exactly what we're working on, so you might take some interest.

 

It's hard for me to understand how anyone could prefer soundtracks outside of the prequels. Maybe the original trilogy just for nostalgia but all the newer movies? Naaa. 

Prequels had the best music by far, and of the three, my vote goes to RotS. 

Hi!

So, welcome to JKA. First off, if you're still running on default 1.00 (from a less-than-legal copy or original disk), yes you will likely have trouble finding people as there are very few on that version. However, if you're running 1.01, your server list will look something like this:
https://jkhubservers.appspot.com/

There are quite a few servers that do have bots in them, yes. I would suggest sorting by player count in the server list. There are still a fair amount of people that do play, but there are also a fair amount of ghost servers as well. Generally you're going to be looking for clan servers, because the TFFA and duel servers are only active at certain times of the day (it also depends if you're EU or US). If you have discord, I'd welcome you over to the JKC Discord (https://discord.gg/gFKwH85 or https://discord.me/jediknight) where you can keep up to date on what clans are around and about and the servers people are frequenting, as well as any events going on in JKA.

You might also consider getting a clientside mod for ease-of-access tools as well as a server list that auto-sorts out bots vs humans (my personal recommendation is ETJK, though the most common clientsides are JA+ and OpenJK).

Congrats Art ^^

Actually, there are 4 official members of our development team and 3 contributors in our development chat. Of us all, Clyde is the only one who can realistically code anything important. The rest of us advise on detail work with the saber combat, create models and maps, write the lore, work on the UI layout, and other less essential functions. Yet OSP, in my opinion, is now further along in development from its one coder in an incredibly short period of time than most ordinary games would be. Circa's video is actually a much older version of the game, it's up to 0.0.0.3 now, with plenty more features including vastly better combat, more than one saber style, wallrunning, strafing, and better animations to name a few. Idk what he does, but it certainly seems like he works full time on it. Could've fooled me.

I say that to say this: A paid game needs a lot of people and gets done slowly because those people are just workers. But when a community has exceptional dedication to a game, every team member can easily be worth the value of five or six members in any other project. Heck, the guy who originally coded the combat system for all the JK games wasn't some highly trained super-professional like you seem to think, he was just a guy with dedication who made it his hobby to code games, and got picked up by raven.

That combat looks like MB2, in JK2, on a JKA map. O.o

MB2 definitely simplified saber combat with a manual block button. Idk if you're looking for block buttons or if you'd be interested in how blocking works as a standard in JKA base and/or JA+? I mean, the block system in the game by default is complex but very nice in my opinion, hence why I would not even think to go to something with a click-to-block sort of standard. Buuut there are mods out there that do that for people who clearly disagree with me there. (That said, as a side note, Mount & Blade style blocking would seem okay for that as opposed to a simplistic click-and-block one at least.)

 For a long time in MP, I had used Firebrand because I heard that it makes the blade slightly longer. Ha! Boy was I fooled

This may still be correct, I've seen more supportive evidence of it than evidence to the contrary thus far

I'm a teacher by heart, so proooobably the most fun I've had is teaching newbies.....


...and then killing them with medium DFA's because it's just far too entertaining

So I'm sure by now many of you know about us, but I wanted to put out a newer, more up-to-date advertisement to better explain what we're about!


Who are we?

The Jedi Knight Community Discord server (JKC) is a place where we aim to gather people from all over the JK community to be enthusiastic Jedi together. While this generally caters more to the JKA community, this is also an inclusive discord for people in the previous games as well. This spans all game mods and versions.

Where can we be found?

Right here: https://discord.gg/gFKwH85

What do we have to offer?

The JKC has a variety of things to offer to the community. We provide a platform for hundreds of people from across the community, which provides ample opportunities to:

-Converse with like-minded Jedi and Sith from all across the globe
-Have a common-ground location where many clans and teams can meet and organize events and share information
-Advertise your clan/team
-Find a clan or team you like and join it
-Advertise events you host
-Keep up-to-date and in-the-know about all things going on in the community
-Have access to knowledgeable members of the community who are willing to help with modding questions/techsupport/learning the game itself
-Enjoy music from everyone's favorite DJ, Reelo Baruk
-Tag Caelum until he finally loses his sanity, turns to the dark side, and destroys the planet with a massive weapon that has an incredibly obvious weakness that will be explained in a spin-off movie later
-Have a quick and easy way to call people for PUGs
-Give people disapproving Rosh emoji reactions to things they post, or a slightly more disapproving Jar Jar emoji

...And more! All with a team of staff who are always happy to hear feedback to shape the server to fit the needs and wants of the community.

Why should you care?

Because with hundreds of members on the server and more people and clans getting involved every day, this is THE #1 place on Discord to discuss anything Jedi-Knight.


*We are open 25 hours a day, 8 days a week. All free meme offers expire after 3000 days. JKC is not responsible for any injury caused by improper use of memes. Please consult your doctor if you experience dizziness, stomach pain, allergic reactions, destroyed childhood, sabers to the face, or death. Feel free to contact me for any information regarding the server, or just to say hi.

The video portion of that hurts me with how much button mashing is happening. But nice interview

That moment when a game is so old, you can have generations of modders. Impressive.

On that note, welcome!

The results were consistent in terms that the Katarn hilt was vastly lower than the Firebrand hilt as far as landing hits in every trial. I consider any variation from the very few hits that Katarn actually got to likely have been the result of unaccounted for variables, but there was a very strong lean in the evidence.

In this case visuals matter. If the saber tag is lower on one, of course the saber will actually be shorter. That said, the visual was just for the sake of checking it, we're vastly more concerned about the impact it actually has in combat. When one saber is scoring sufficiently higher than another, that has a strong implication. 

So we have:
1. Visual representation support
2. Saber tag support
3. Effective impact (higher hit ratio of longer vs shorter) support.

By no means was the slightly inconclusive test meant to serve as absolute fact, but I'd say the theory is very well supported right now. The goal was to provide some degree of physical evidence for the claim Circa made. The demos were meant to serve as information to show the results we were getting and how the test was conducted, so that people may run their own experiments or may suggest reasons why the results we got were not consistent.
 

Inconsistent results generally means an unreliable test. 

 
You'd be right to some degree. What it has to mean is that there is a variable unaccounted for somewhere. Which is why, since every important in-game variable was accounted for (all with centered view, same facing position, unmoving, same swing, same dummy position..) I would posit that the variable missing lies in JKA's netcode--that you and every other coder for the game would admit is horrible--which could cause oddities in how often the saber generates a successful hit. Most likely do to whether or not it lines up with a snapshot from the server, I'd assume.

Because the hits differ in quantity from saber to saber, I'd be tempted to argue that our dummy wasn't perfectly positioned completely out of range of the shorter saber (probably because the additional length is very minimal) and that both were technically hitting it, but the fact that one saber was hitting with slightly more of the blade increased the chance of it registering properly. It's likely that both were hitting, and the hits that weren't counted remained unregistered because of how little of the blade hit and for how short of a duration it was. The hits registering from the longer saber more often would make sense, because it held a slightly more significant impact.

That said, my alternative to fixing that variable would be to increase the sv_fps of the server to something much higher to try and force every hit, regardless of how small, to be registered. Then run a second test. 

This is all just a hypothesis, mind you. I'm not really a coder, so some of that could be wildly off, but to the extent of my understanding of the game, this would be my expectations.

Phantom Academy tested and can confirm there are varying degrees of impact from differing sabers. For purposes of testing, we compared the shortest (Katarn hilt) to one of the longest (Firebrand). We made sure to remove as many variables as we could (zero movement, centerview set, and a keybind for attack so that mouse movement wouldn't impact location of the hit). We also had testers of varying pings run the same test to see if that had a significant impact on it, which as far as we can tell, it did not.

First, we looked at the visual elements, which do support this:
https://jkhub.org/images/71cf77f78eb05d557a6a0b6e0c017643.jpg
https://jkhub.org/images/cebcbbec45c4d3168a2b0aed12ddc2d7.jpg
https://jkhub.org/images/12cf820f9da0c8a3fa151a47ebc80acc.jpg

All show a significant length difference in Katarn v. Firebrand.

Then, we took to our formal range testing. At the edge of range for the Firebrand, it was scoring about 6/15 swings. Each test differed in the number of hits though, it wasn't really a strictly consistent thing. (I did an unrecorded test with Defender which is approximately the same, and got 10/25).

For the same distance, Katarn was much less consistent. I believe there was a 3/15 one, but then we had at least one instance of 0/20. In most tests, Katarn proved to be almost incapable of landing a hit.

Demos provided here for reference:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/twvt48jzk93vnbe/Saber_Legnth_Test_%28Wolf%29.dm_26?dl=0  (My perspective)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/60o1zix0pai7p7h/Saber_Length_Test_%28Art%29.dm_26?dl=0 (Art's perspective)

We would conclude that this finding is accurate, though the consistency of the usefulness of the extended range is still up for debate. It is without a doubt that Firebrand/Defender scored better overall than Katarn did, but the hits still were not 100% every time. The only known variables that could impact this would be networking things (snapshots/packets/rate and such).

(Credit to everyone involved in testing where it is due, especially to Frost for being so patient in being our test dummy )

I mean, as far as beating Alora flawlessly, it's not hard at all. Most SP npcs aren't, to be fair. 

If you're a perfectionist for an easy battle with no damage, I'd suggest watching 40:00-40:13 in a JKA speedrun here:

If you're looking for an entertaining battle though, well... MP is really where the entertainment from fights come in if you want to learn all the best tactics in the game and be able to do basically what that guy does in the video (much harder in player v player). I'd say for just general SP entertainment value, you should do your own thing and just have fun with it. Once someone teaches you all the combat elements of the game, SP loses most of its value because its just too easy, and MP is the only great entertainment the game offers (don't mistake me-- MP is amazing for what it provides. But JKA's SP just can't hold up to what the engine itself can allow you to do).

I can't imagine why MP wouldn't be working o.O But if you decide you want that fixed, I'm sure there are plenty of people here on the Hub that can help (I might be able to too, but I'm not entirely sure I'll have the answer for whatever may be broken).

I'd strongly disagree with.. pretty much everything stated. Soresu is, conceptually, a maximized defense. While fast style (blue) has the best defense against blasters, it is absolutely useless against virtually everything else. What you're looking for is strong style (red) for the best available defense.

"There's no defense button and it has auto defense system but it is not useful." here if you want to read and get an idea of how complicated (and how effective) blocking can be. You'll mostly wanna look to sections 1-3 for all the essentials. Minimal of 1-2 for swing stage and defensive/offensive stances.

"Medium and Heavy are not fast enough to block and counter."
"With this, you can catch the opponent's weak points easier than before. You can slash enemy's weak points when he or she attacks while running."
"So I want to emphasis on dodging with the Force Jump." here for an explanation of how strafe jumping works or here for how it is realistically applied, I'd suggest the former since I haven't updated the latter in a while. Alternatively, there are fancy videos at the end of both those posts that show key presses and how it works so you don't have to read my wall of text.

"You have to switch from walking to running in order to avoid siege attacks" 

Hope some of that helps! I might have spent way too much time learning how JKA works so if you have questions about any of it I can probably answer. It could also help if you mentioned if this was for SP fighting or MP fighting because that makes a bit of a difference.

I'm fine with being tagged, but I'd just like to clarify that I am not a coder. I'm just a combat researcher and really, really bad mapper. so Idk why I was tagged o.o

First of all, thank you! I don't think you can even possibly begin to understand how much our community as a whole appreciates a developer taking time to come talk to us, let alone answer all our questions. 

On that note, you say you designed the saber combat. I'm actually a writer for a database archiving.. well, everything focused around saber combat. So, naturally, I have about a thousand questions about specific combat elements. I'll do my best to restrain myself and only ask one question for now though.

I know this isn't a specific code question, but I did want to ask a sort of overall:

Were things like poking (turning to keep the saber in someone longer for extended damage), wiggling (exiting & re-entering the hitbox multiple times to cause more damage) and delays (basically interrupts in a swing to force it into a later stage) all in the plan, or completely unexpected exploits? I know they were somewhat present in JKO which makes me wonder if they were just anticipated and considered part of JKA when developed. Obviously the mantra goes that all these things are exploits that were discovered and abused, but I was curious if they were really exploits, or if the dev team had any knowledge of it prior and let it go, since it also wasn't fixed in the 1.01 patch.

Always happy to see new people around. Let me be the first to say that the multiplayer of both JKO and JKA are a vastly different experience from their respective singleplayers. I think what Circa says is a pretty good way to go about it. I will say this though, and as a JKA MP player I may have a rather distinct bias: If you play JKA and you don't play the multiplayer, you're really missing out on pretty much all the good stuff the game actually has to offer. Not getting your money's worth if you don't go into MP. To be fair, the SP isn't really all to super amazing, but the MP is the kind of work that deserves the 13 years of life that the game has had. 

 

You definitely want to play through the SP first though so you still have that newbie experience. It's an exciting feeling, being a jedi in a game so free. Once you hit the MP, your whole view of the game will completely change (not in a bad way, but you wont be able to look at the game the same way anymore) so take your time and really enjoy it.

 

If and when you do get to that MP part, feel free to give me a poke here on the hub or discord as well. Or on steam. I have a really bad habit of friending basically anyone on steam who requests. Probably shouldn't, but curiosity always gets the better of me. But yes. I do a lot of teaching for JKA MP, so I'd always be happy to help if ever you have interest.

 

Oh and, definitely download all the things. If you've got a friend to go map-exploring with, that's probably one of the best parts of the game. Personal recommendation of Taspir Power Complex v3, easily my favorite map. 

@@Trunks If you're interested, I can personally give you a refresher course in JKA. I'm a huge fan of taking the game apart and putting it back together. I noticed you mentioned Axis-- I'm actually friends with several X-R members. I continued some of their work on the block/parry system (Lemonlime and Redleader taught me a fair amount, if you recognize either of those names maybe?). I also kinda/sorta run my own combat database if you're interested in taking a look at some point.

Really the differences aren't as vast as some claimed. The code patches were scoured to find what really changed and that's about it. It's not like 1.02 to 1.03/4 jk2.

Pretty much. I forgot to mention @@Trunks, theres no more sabergun in 1.01 and ship flight is weird but thats about it.