lil_binger

First of all, Thanks to IrocJeff again for helping me with a workaround for JK2's max shader error using _lightmapscale 2 (or variations thereof). Because of the workaround I am able to work on this map much more and have had quite an inspiration to expand this map to make it what it should be rather than settling for half a map running into a max shader error after 4000 brushes. Now the map is currently around 7000 brushes and have been on a mapping crusade to add a bunch of ideas I have had to the map. And to answer one question some of you may have, why another bespin map? If you check it out, you'll know why. Bespin Arena will not be the final name for this map. I am toying around with some names: Binger's Bespin is what I had intended. I am testing the map currently with the name. I once previously made "The Bing Station". And the name Binger associated with a map means "fun". I like to think I am good at gameplay and making fun and interesting things to do when I make a map. However, I am still a little if'y on the name. I've thought about Bespin 2014 and some others. If someone has a better name I'd be glad to hear it and possibly adapt it to the map. That being said, I have a playable version myself of the current progress but it's not quite ready for another beta release. I do however have a bunch of screenshots I'd like to post and get some feeedback. *Also on a side not: I do use a mod to replace the bespin Sky with one I like to use. Council room moved and expanded: It's is still on the same side of the map from the previous beta however it is located within another area now I previously deleted due to max shader error. It is also a little harder to get to as there is a secret trigger to open the door to get into this area. I am currently working on making another exit from the council room to move a player from that area to another utilizing a tram system. Another deleted max shader error area: This area has been transformed a couple times and barely resembles it's former self. Previously it was all walled in with a floor etc. Then I had a bit of inspiration to redesign the map just a tiny bit lol. This area is designed using a couple maps I made "The Bingstation" and a member's room from ":The Outhouse". The main area of the map has had a couple small additions, here's one.....2 rotating fans in opposite directions with metal grate: Expanded dojo: The dojo I had also wanted to expand but had to limit the design just to keep the map under the JK2 shader error. I've work on it quite a bit now and I have been very happy with the progress. I should have taken a couple more pictures of this area but this one will do for now. This used to be a small rectangular area but has been expanded to what you see now. A pic of a small ventilator shaft before some slime w/smoke, a forcefielded door for the wall cut-out and a couple other details. You can get from the main are to another area using this escape route. Access to the elevator shaft from below: A piic for a new transitional area which takes you from the main area to one of the side areas using the arrow jumps I made for "The search for Animal Jedi" and a piece from an unreleased ctf map "Rancor Rampage". Previously deleted area in place where it was intended but removed for the max shader error and now back again with a few improvements. I have only just begun work for this area (sort of). This area was taken from Bespin ruins (mostly). I've added a little to it in the last couple of days. The council room (pic above) overlooks the x-wing below. The pad supports were taken from a map I made called" Khomm from the Shroomduck Inc. map pack. The "Swingset of Death" comes from "The Outhouse". The statue on top of the oblisk and a little cricket noise came from "The Temple of Mechanism". Most of the redesign for this area has gone on in the last couple days and still is in the early stages of the redesign so should look a lot better soon. 2 new connections to this area have been made recently with another one in the works with the possibility of another shortly. Here's a before redesign picture of that area: I've been getting a lot of inspiration for this map recently adn hope to make many more improvements soon and get another beta out there to test. I'd love to hear any criticism or comments anyone has about the map and/or screens I posted.

Maybe to make them move to use a water type shader and convert it so it's noncolid. Or taking the parameters from a water shader that make water fluctuate as a wave and making a new shader for the banner?

Sounds good. The only problem I have with the workaround for shader limits is you've given me a whole lot more work to do to finish up a couple maps I am working on lol. The Bespin arena was close to being finished because of the restrictions but now I have much more work I can do to it and finish it the way I originally envisioned it. Should be a great addition for the map line up for JK2. The bespin arena map in wip section I'd like to see or hear your thoughts about it however I am adding more to it. I will get another WIP out for it when I can and give you a heads up. I think it's by far one of my best maps to date and only going to get better now that I can add more to the map without having to worry about shader restrictions. I've added one part back to the map I had to remove because of the max shader error and I had planned on making some more areas but had to bite my creative tongue just to finish it as it was because too much more and it would become unplayable. I'll be glad to take a look at the map for you. Just give me a holler.

Temple of Mechanism.....my old clan was called =LM= Leveling Mechanism, thus the name of the map. It was originally made to be a clan map. Our temple clan map. I don't know if you ever saw the map I made called the Outhouse but the dimensions of the very top of the temple and the height are the same as the outhouse however The Outhouse was more vertical and didn't have angles on the sides. It was a huge outhouse in the woods with multiple levels inside lol. My 2 best friends and I started the clan and our clan was the mechanism keeping us all as equal parts. The mechanism I guess stands for "fun" in it's context and was meant that we were all equal and nobody should fight over who's the best. I admit though, if you take away the clan, the name doesn't exactly make sense, I will look into doing something to substantiate the name a little more. The fire effect should be base jk2 fire. At least I thought it was. I'll check it out. I think some of the textures you describe might have been overlooked when I pk3'd the map. I didn't want to throw out the pk3 I use because it's around 70mb in size due to many extra sounds files I am working with and a bunch of textures I have in reserve. I deleted a bunch for that pk3 so I may have deleted a few too many. And I'll have to grab that curly texture which is in a different pk3 I also have in reserve I work from a little bit pulling textures out as I need them and I think there are around 200 or so custom textures in the separate pk3s. The wooden stone thing / room is brand new. No light sources yet. I do plan on keeping most of the lighting looking light natural light using fire. But retro fitted here and there with modern lighting. I plan on working some light sources in there. I am guessing you saw something in the sky maybe? Floating around? Currently it's on a continuous loop so I can test the map and check out the patch etc. I will eventually add a wait time for it so it can be seen less often. I've got a couple other ideas for it also but we'll see. Did you see anything looking back at you in the trees or growling at you from a bush? I am not sure why you would die going through the portals from time to time. I do have them target multiple target_teleporters so if someone follows you through they won't kill you by spawning in the same space. Maybe that could be a bug. It could be they might be too close to the ground? I'll look into it. I do like the area in spoiler #3 also. And yes I do intend to expand on that idea. Actually, I don't really indend for people to spend much time outside or in the middle where the wooden stone thing is, however the top of the map with all the spawn points is a great place for ffa style king of the hill stuff. I intend the map to be riddled with secret rooms and pathways kind of like forest house was. And thanks to you Jeff with the help with the max shader problem I won't have to worry about hitting that again and expand this map the way I want to. The picture with spoiler 3 will be mainly what the rest of the underground will be styled upon. I look forward to working more with it. As the fps goes, I can probably just use myself as the low end control cpu. If it lags for me it'll lag for anyone but most gamers nowadays are far beyond my gpu performance. I have a quad core laptop but graphics I would estimate are about the same as my old Windows Me computer I used to make maps with back in the day. I would estimate around a 256mb type performance for my laptop. Outside in the temple map my fps will drop down to the mid 40 fps if I am in a corner. If I do too much more with the terrain outside I would have problems playing my own map. I've tried a few things to reduce the tris my computer draws outside but there is only so much I can do. And thanks again Jeff for the help with the max shader problem. I never thought there was a way around that one. I never could find an answer for that. I used to use map-craft I think for mapping years ago. I guess I was using the wrong forum. If only I had a time machine to send me a message back then about that when I was mapping lol.

did you just look at the pics? Or try to load the map in JA or something? I'm really looking for input from you guys actually loading the map and looking around. Giving me some input on frame rate outside and any aesthetics that may not be very pleasing or something. There's something in there nobody has said anything about so if you don't say something about it I am sure you haven't loaded the map. ty though for the encouragement Circa. Also if you guys want me to convert the map to JA to test it because you won't check it out unless it fully works in JA let me know and I can work something out. As far as searching for max shader limits I normally use yahoo for my default search engine. I normally read a bunch of the news there day to day so I also use it to search for stuff I am looking for but I have a hard time finding stuff sometimes. I did a search on Google and found it right away. I've tried searching for q3map materials too for JO but never found a solution for that. I did finally get the shader program working and see all of the ones for JA but not for JO and because of the way GTk is installed on my computer may attribute to why it doesn't show me q3map materials for JO.

IrocJeff urock!!! I just tested this in the bespin arena map I was working on. I deleted an area I had in there for the JO version because of the max shader limit problem. The area was around 1100 brushes. I copied the entire map and pasted it into the same map increasing the brush count to around 7200 or so brushes threw in the _lightmapscale 2 and seemed to work very well. Looks good too. If only I had known that years ago. thanks a bunch for that. Back to the Temple of Mechanism. Nobody has posted here about anything regarding the temple of mechanism. I would really like some input.

The max shader limit error is what I was talking about. I always keep a few custom player models in base folder because of this. I must make sure at least a few custom player models can be used when using any maps I am testing even if I don't use them. Once the max shader limit is hit the player models will start to lose their detail turning their clothes etc into grey squares and their images from the selection screen will disappear or become a grey square also. Aren't the two the same though? Is there a shader limit in JK2 an JKA or Is the shader limit non-related to the max shader limit error?

Yes another temple lol. I think I got a head start on this one compared to newer ones being worked on currently. Started in 2005 I began reworking the map a couple of months ago. I do see many Sith temples however this one is a Jedi temple so I am thinking there are less Jedi temples than Sith ones so maybe that will help it out. I am going to try to keep this in a more older style with some modern additions with the thought that this was an ancient temple discovered by Jedi in recent times retro fitting some modern touches to adapt the temple to a modern society. Doing so, I won't have to over complicate the geometry hoping this will help me expand the map more for JO with it's limited map restrictions. I believe the brush count is around 2000 currently and for Jedi Outcast that's about 50% done or maybe a little more. I often hit the shader limit around 4000 brushes (give or take a few hundred brushes) in Jedi Outcast which really sucks compared to Jedi Academy which can max out at over 30000 brushes. I may look into trying to make ase models to increase the brush count by cheating a little bit but I have not tested that in JO against shader limits. I would love to figure out how to fix that but I might have to wait for JK2 HD maybe? If anyone knows how to extend the JO restrictions I'd love to know what I needed to do to make it work with a higher brush count. But maybe that's an issue I can bring up in modding assistance. This map has lots of sounds outside. Frogs, crickets, owls, hawks, jaguars, cougars, rattlesnakes, water, wind, fire and a few JO base creature sounds with more to come. All of those sounds combined with the fog give the exterior an eerie dark realistic feel. It's kinda like listening to a symphony of animals outside and it's all done using individual sounds without the use of global ambiance.

The Temple of Mechanism is a long lost Jedi temple located in a lush forest of (wherever ). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0wzU8JHlPkNVAxdzlHRTgxWkU/edit?usp=sharing I actually started making this map back in the day, during the year 2005 according to the time stamp on an old backup. The map was going to be a sequel to the infamous Outhouse map which was a clan map for my old clan Leveling Mechanism. I had made the main area and had made many members rooms and we played the map some but it never got very far in it's development. The main area was pretty effing big, too big in fact. It was a bit on the laggy side and lacked detail. I really liked the map and decided to work with it and suddenly got an inspiration to redesign the map after messing around with a few things. This map has been totally transformed into a much better and polished gem than it used to be. I spent a few days just making shaders for it. I've also put many hours manipulating new royalty free sound effects to create a very inviting forest ambience that makes you feel like you are deep in a secluded forest somewhere in Jediland. This map is no longer a clan map, and I am sure some will be glad to hear it. All the members rooms are gone. I am instead creating more of a Jedi temple themed map trying to work it more like the Forest House map with many secrets and surprises however, I have spent most of my time polishing the exterior of the map and I haven't added too many secrets just yet but I have a plethora of ideas written down and have designed a sound file to add a little something extra when I get around to it. I really like how this map is going and wanted to get a WIP posted here on JKHub once I felt it was ready for a test. The map is built currently for Jedi Outcast. In Jedi Academy, a few trees may not be visible if there is a _b tree somewhere. The jump targets around the temple that jump you to the top of the temple will not work correctly in JA. And there is another secret trigger in a tree that won't be usable in JA but no matter which JK game you use, you will have a very hard time finding it anyway. Everything else should be just dandy for testing the map in Jedi Academy. I will convert the map to work in Jedi Academy when I get closer to a final release. There are also some textures for JO that may not show up in JA but many are custom textures or if you have a JO texture pack you'll be fine. There are a few things to take note: All spawn points are on top of the temple. The Outhouse was done this way and makes for a lot of fun for ffa or "King of the Temple". There are 4 entrances to the temple. 2 of them on the sides that go down (indicated by a picture above them that looks like an egyptian guy with 2 lightsabers in his hands) go nowhere. Eventually they will go somewhere. The other 2 entrances go up into the temple that has only just been started and I plan on making some star wars memorabilia or some holocrons or some weapons or something. That area has only been started yesterday I think so I am unsure what it will become when I work on it some more. Underneath the top of the temple there are 4 top entrances. Inside there are 4 stone tablets with fire underneath. When you jump into the fire of 2 of the tables there are teleports to access other areas. The tablet with the cracked looking JK2 base texture is for the middle of the temple that can be accessed on the bottom level. The tablet with the egyptian Jedi will teleport you to another area that can only be accessed by that teleport or using no clip. I will be adding access to that without teleport eventually but I have not done so just yet. Also to get out of the bottom area just follow the corridor and jump into the glowing evil face to teleport back out to the top of the temple. There's lots of no damage shaders around so falling off the temple won't get you hurt. Sorry to the JA guys not being able to use the triggers for the jumps to the top of the temple which is really fun to do and for the JK2'ers using 1.02, you can use those jumps to jump up and over and land in the deep water and if you hold the jump button down you will be launched into the air able to land back on the temple. (it's a JK2 1.02 bug and is fun to do also like in Shroom's Country Academy map). There are a couple other bugs in 1.02 with rotating vultures and eagles and lilly pads in the map. I can't really get rid of those in 1.02 but I think the bugs are gone for 1.04 and JA where if you die they may stop rotating or moving for a short period of time but I have done whatever I know how to do to keep it from happening. If anyone knows how to fix those bugs please let me know. I hope you guys enjoy. I am still working on a couple other projects in my spare time, trying to finish up bespin arena also released as a wip here on the forums which has been slow going. Working on the Temple of Mechanism has been more satisfying lately so I've been making it more of a priority. Tell me what you guys think. I'd greatly appreciate any advice you can give me. =)

I used 1.4 for the longest time. I tried 1.5 but I had some problems with it and many at the time said that 1.4 was more stable than 1.5 even though 1.5 had some tools that weren't readily accessable in 1.4. Since coming back to editing maps again I've been really happy with 1.6 minus the texture editing using some patches which seem to distort the image more. I think there is an option or possibly a button for selecting vertices that will select only one or a column or row. If I want to select one vertex I usually select it in the 3d view then slide it around in the 2d view. Vertex editing has always had it's ups and downs. There are a few things to follow that help when editing vertexes to reduce some errors that occur but some times you just have to go with what GTK will allow assuming it fits closely (maybe not exactly) with what you want to do. I haven't had bobtools clean up many vertex edited brushes often because I try to work with the limitations rather than against them. Moving vertices around I will need to change the unit grid to move them around correctly without causing problem. Sometimes you need to visualize where you will need to move them and cutting the object on a grid corner is needed to prevent the brush from breaking. Best way I have found is always edit vertices on grid points or corners, if the vertices don't line up on these points it can cause some problems when trying to line up those points with another brush etc. 1.6 can be a little buggy sometimes though. Some problems I have may be due to my graphics card. I haven't had many crashes but I've had a few. Sometimes it's hard to edit anything because the brush won't show up when I zoom in in the 2d view but I can see it when I zoom out. Sometimes I see ghost images of an area in one section that doesn't have any objects in it. I am happy with 1.6 editing maps for JK2 even though JK2 isn't supported and only shows me stuff that works in JA in the entity window because I have the JA install point at JK2 gamedata. The biggest complaint I have is texturing some patchwork where no matter what I do the texture is all messed up and down right ugly.

To select inside maybe hide structural and detail brushes? Or hide everything but lights? Maybe that would help a little.

I guess you can possibly uninstall then reinstall gtk and point to the folder you want. I use gtk 1.6 but it doesn't support Jedi Outcast. It asked me where my Jedi Academy base folder was when I installed 1.6 but I told it where the JO base folder is so when I use it I edit using textures etc in Jedi Outcast however I did have to change a couple things like the shader list in the shaders folder. I will also say I wouldn't recommend doing that. I don't think anyone else has gtk installed to work that way. If you encounter any problems there aren't many who can help.

I haven't seen a reply here yet. So I'll reply to you. I extract the assets for a reference somewhere. I don't mod the extracted assets. If I want to find a texture or shader or something I'll look through the extracted assets to find what I need. Extract em wherever you want them. I would say you're best bet if you want to mod one version and keep another version untouched is to make a copy of the jedi academy folder and rename it to C\Program Files (x86)\LucasArts\Star Wars Jedi Knight Jedi Academy 2. You will have to make the copy on the desktop or somewhere or even make a backup of the original folder then copy it and paste it in the lucas arts directory. You can rename the folders to work with one or the other instead of redirecting radiant to a different directory. Installing gtk should unpack some things needed like map objects and shaders so they can be placed in your map.

I had some issues somewhat similar boot. When I got back to mapping a little bit I was using 1.4. When I downloaded 1.6, the progress I made in 1.4 didn't show up in 1.6. 1.4 would show the progress but when I opened the map in 1.6 I thought I had lost everything. In order to get the progress I made in 1.4 over to 1.6 I had both of them open. I selected everything (the entire map) in 1.4 then copied and pasted into 1.6. My problem was solved. Maybe you can look into that and see if it works for you. It's weird and no idea what is happening there. The files sizes would remain the same when I viewed the files in their respective folder. When I opened 1.4 and clicked open the file size would be of the edited version. I checked the paths etc. It was opening from the correct maps folder. I would open the file in 1.6 and it looked like no changes were made ever. Go back to 1.4 and the changes were there. Copy and pasting worked for me.

Hey buzz. Welcome. I for one have been back mainly making maps for JO but I've been converting them for JA also. I don't play either much but when I do it's usually JO.

Looks great man. I am doing a little something similar making a candle flame. You've got a few there I see. I would like to see a little variance with them. It would give it a little more realistic feel to them. With so many maybe having 3 shaders mixed around in there to make them look a little different I think would be awesome. I've been busy just testing shaders and fog and stuff for the last few days not getting much structural work done until today. It takes a lot of time to get a simple looking shader to look just perfect. Nice work!

Hey Buzz, u use a router? Have you opened a port on your router for jk2? 28070 I think it is. Router I think is blocking the 2 way traffic (don't know the specifics off hand). You should be able to search the web and find how to open a port for JK2. Doing this will also help rcon commands to find people in a slot so you can kick them. (Hosting the map yourself of course you probably won't get any errors with kicking people etc). The JK2 master server isn't getting a ping from your computer because of the port being closed I believe. JA might be a different story idk. There may be another way but that has happened to me in the past.

Well footsteps would be more complicated than just adding a sound to a shader. It just wouldn't work right because of how much more complex footsteps sounds are in JK. Also trying to track down sound sets for JK2....I think it's the same as the problem with footsteps having the soundset defined in the code. I have not tested this though. Could a sound set be used only if the key has the value? ex: key : soundset value: sound/movers/new_soundset then in the sound/movers folder place new_soundset_start.mp3, new_soundset_stop.mp3, new_soundset_move.mp3, new_soundset_move_lp.mp3 I kinda don't think that would work but I haven't tested it to know for sure. If anyone knows a solution I'd be glad to hear it. I think this can be done in GTK without using a soundset, I was just wondering if new soundsets can be added also. Yeah replacing footsteps in an added pk3 would replace the sounds but if that's the only option to make me happy I guess I would do it. A pk3 can always be removed. I mainly was thinking about JO footsteps and not JA, I am pretty happy with the JA footsteps and having the material parameter in the shader doesn't cause JK2 any problems but will still work in JA. And I can live without being able to add new soundsets lol. Gfx added to a shader wouldn't work either for footsteps to work correctly after contemplating a few things. It's more than just footsteps that is being determined, landing , walking and running....just wouldn't work. Too much info to tell JK2 what to do only using a shader and a sound file.

The parameters I found above were found by someone who found them in JKA uncompiled code. I omitted a couple i think were shatterglass and armor (maybe computer also.) It kind of looks like in the code some of the parameters may play the same sound. I am still unable to find JK2 specifics for materials exactly. Looking through some of the source code help a little bit. Looks like JK2 has sounds for default, metalsteps or(metal) and stonesteps (or stone). The water is for water walk run and wade. Part of what I found was this: + FOOTSTEP_NORMAL, + FOOTSTEP_METAL, + FOOTSTEP_SPLASH, + FOOTSTEP_WADE, + FOOTSTEP_SWIM, Also I see this in JK2 source code: Com_sprintf (name, sizeof(name), "sound/player/footsteps/stone_step%i.wav", i+1); + cgs.media.footsteps[FOOTSTEP_NORMAL] = cgi_S_RegisterSound (name); + + Com_sprintf (name, sizeof(name), "sound/player/footsteps/metal_step%i.wav", i+1); + cgs.media.footsteps[FOOTSTEP_METAL] = cgi_S_RegisterSound (name); + + Com_sprintf (name, sizeof(name), "sound/player/footsteps/water_run%i.wav", i+1); + cgs.media.footsteps[FOOTSTEP_SPLASH] = cgi_S_RegisterSound (name); + + Com_sprintf (name, sizeof(name), "sound/player/footsteps/water_walk%i.wav", i+1); + cgs.media.footsteps[FOOTSTEP_WADE] = cgi_S_RegisterSound (name); + + Com_sprintf (name, sizeof(name), "sound/player/footsteps/water_wade_0%i.wav", i+1); + cgs.media.footsteps[FOOTSTEP_SWIM] = cgi_S_RegisterSound (name); + I haven't checked them in game atm though. And you can't make new ones without recompiling code so that's not an option. Looks like the only way to make new ones is to supply new sounds to overwrite the old ones then assign them to the shaders material I want to assign. However JK2 looks quite limited in this respect compared to JKA. You can add gfx to a shader, I was also asking in my post if a sfx could be added to a shader other than having to stretch a trigger over the brush?

Yes I looked. I searched yahoo and google also. I couldn't find a definitive list of materials except for the one I posted above and I don't remember where I found it but they said it was a list from jamp.exe I think maybe from a source file or something. Looking at the footsteps directory it also isn't exactly clear on which one is what exactly. And I've seen nothing about making a new q3map_material to add to the game for use in shaders. JK2 has 4 materials it looks like that don't involve water but the materials in radiant aren't exactly spelled the same. JKA has a few. And I didn't see any info about adding a custom sound to a shader to work in the same way a q3map_material would.

First of all, I was working with a map I wanted to make footsteps sound different walking on different types of material/shaders. I tried to find info online about q3map_material "materials" and it was hard to find information about what parameters work with JK2 vs JKA. Such as : q3map_material solidmetal I searched this web site and many others looking for an answer. I did find one post somewhere where someone said they found some commands in the jamp.exe (I did not read how this was done). What they posted was this list: plaster, carpet, tiles, plastic ,rubber, rock, canvas, fabric, greenleaves, dryleaves, bpglass, mud, flesh, ice snow, water, marble, concrete, glass, gravel, sand, dirt, longgrass, shortgrass, hollowmetal, solidmetal, hollowwood, solidwood I was wondering if these were correct or work for JKA? A couple in JKA sound the same or similar. I have tried some in JK2 and looking inside JK2 some I can see the footsteps sound files are much less in JK2 compared to JKA. Also, am I missing something or are these options posted on jkhub? Different q3map_material types for JK2 and JK3? Is it possible to add new q3map_materials or is there a way to add sound to a shader file to make footsteps? If so what do I add to the shader file to make it work? I think I added sound to a shader a long time ago but I don't remember how I tried, if it worked or if I found a solution. I have looked many places online and JKHub but can't seem to find an answer.

It's like they have a different word for everything

I have found before that the func_group did create a problem for me before. When I turned them into worldspawn I was able to add more entities. This happened a long time ago. I don't exactly know what map I was working on. Maybe I was wrong. I put this in discussions to discuss this and not in a tutorial section. I was wanting to discuss this with some of you guys here but someone wants to edit my post calling it incorrect etc. (I understand why which is why I am leaving it that way). Maybe I should have been a little more clear asking you guys if I was correct in talking about func_groups rather than someone telling me to do fact checking......that's why I was posting this to begin with. What I posted was "I may have" meaning "I think this is correct but I am posting it here for discussion". Thank you Szico and others for a good answer for my discussion. Other people want to put others down to get their point across....ahumm.....Moondog (not pointing any fingers ) Please be helpful not hurtfull thank you.

Just kinda wondering it people hit the entity limit often making maps etc. Placing more entities in a map than a map can have and be played without errors? I've seen a tutorial about spawning npc's and in some maps you can only add one or 2 or not at all because of an entity limit. I may have a solution or 2 to help out with this. If you already know it great! If you don't, there are a couple things when making a map that can help reduce the amount of entities and free up some space. 1 - func_group reduction: When capping a cylinder, beveling a patching or thickening a patch, radiant by default turns these into a func_group. (There is a check box for creating a func_group which can be deselected) A func_group does nothing in itself (doesn't move or trigger anything etc). A func_group can be used to group multiple brushes or patches together for editing a map but as they are a func_group they become an entity themselves. Using the "L" key to bring up the entity window you can find all the func_groups in your map. Selecting them and ungrouping them in GTK under the selection menu will turn them back into a worldspawn brush or patch and it will no longer be a func_group entity. Sometimes these can slip by and you can have many of them in a map someone is creating. Each func_group counts as one entity, reducing these will free up some entity space. (Incorrect) 2 - triggers: Triggers can also count as 1 or more entities whether they are a trigger_multiple or a trigger_hurt and depending on their use. There is a way to reduce the amount of trigger entities you have when making a map. For example: Say you have made an elevator and for that elevator you have 2 triggers to make the elevator work. One trigger on the bottom floor and one on the top floor. If you make the triggers separately and create them individually and turn them into a trigger_multiple you will have 2 trigger entities for the same elevator. In order to create one trigger entity you must select both trigger brushes then turn them into a trigger_multiple. Selecting them both will create one entity and not 2 separate entities. Another way this can be done is making one brush and turning it into a trigger_multiple then cutting a piece of that trigger and separating the piece from the trigger brush that was cut. You will have 2 trigger brushes however they are grouped as one entity. The same can be said about a trigger_hurt. If you have many brushes that are a trigger_hurt, creating them separately will create multiple entities. Selecting all the trigger_hurt brushes and turning them all into one trigger hurt at the same time will create one entity and not several entities. And also cutting a trigger hurt will create 2 brushes however they will be considered as one entity. There may be some other ways to reduce entities in a map. I would like to know of any others if they exist. I thought about making a tutorial with illustrations etc. If you guys think this is useful I can create a tutorial when I have time. I have run into this entity limit before and using those methods described above I was able to add more entities to the map. I posted it in modding discussions to get others viewpoints on the subject.

can you give us a screenshot maybe? I might have an idea but I don't know exactly what you mean. An illustration would be great. I am thinking usables and relays or delays could get the effect you want.