What is constructive criticism?

[Cerez]

Seeing as there's quite a bit of confusion as to what criticism is and how to constructively criticise, I'm putting together a little information and advice using official sources as well as concrete examples.

 

It's understandable that there is confusion, and don't feel bad if you find that you've been acting under a mistaken assumption yourself because even the professional world gets it wrong from time to time, and just as people are complex, so is constructive criticism of their work.

 

I've been fortunate in life to study under a well thought-out educational system that taught us these principles in practice and clearly. I will try to pass on what I have learned here. It should help to guide you on your way, too, and allow you full freedom to express your thoughts without personally offending someone.

 

What is criticism:

 

The word "criticism" has two meanings, but we will be concentrating on the professional meaning of the word as it relates to constructive criticism:

 

"The analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work." > Oxford Dictionaries

 

The key thing here is that it is the artwork, not the artist that's being criticised. An objective standpoint is crucial to well-constructed criticism.

 

-- Examples: --

 

I can see you need to improve your angles. That right angle seems a little off. - constructive criticism

 

Your work generally fails to capture emotion. - criticism

 

This is way too dark to see anything on it. - criticism

 

What is not criticism:

 

Criticism used in the common form (first meaning) of the word that is defined to relate to the following words in a thesaurus is not the form of criticism we are talking about here, and it is not something that should be practiced on these forums (or anywhere in writing), especially not without paying the utmost respect towards the person who is being criticised:

 

"censure, reproval, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, captiousness, fault-finding, carping, cavilling; chastisement, castigation, upbraiding, berating, abuse, vituperation, scolding, chiding; reproofs, remonstrances, broadsides, strictures, admonishments, recriminations, aspersions, slurs, smears; nitpicking, knocking, panning, slamming, flak, a bad press, brickbats, knocks, raps, bad notices; stick, verbal, slagging off, slating; contumely; animadversion, objurgation, excoriation, reprobation, arraignment." > Oxford Thesaurus of English

 

If your criticism does not objectively analyse the artwork itself, or is too brief to present a logical argument, it's not proper criticism.

 

-- Examples: --

 

This sucks. - negative opinion

 

I don't like it. - negative opinion

 

I reckon you should quit while you're ahead. - discouraging remark

 

Awesome! - positive opinion

 

Blows my mind! - positive opinion

 

You should make it a full cast. - encouraging suggestion

 

----

 

 

There's an art to giving critical feedback that encourages someone to improve, rather than hurting his or her self esteem. Constructive criticism should be positive in tone with a focus on a clear, achievable objective. It's also important to choose a thoughtful time and place to deliver the critique, since any type of criticism can be hard to take in front of others.

 

WIP: Still working on the rest…

 

Never to be completed due to overwhelmingly positive feedback... >.<'

[JediBantha]

Constructive criticism = Addressing someone as an asshole, while holding them at gunpoint.

 

But on a more serious note, it can be addressing the flaws in someone's work, and then encouraging them to improve on their project (possibly in their free time), and to never stop trying.

[Ping]

Make sure to cite sources and give reasons as to why we should accept them.

[Cerez]

Make sure to cite sources and give reasons as to why we should accept them.

 

That's the plan, but I won't try to convince anyone. I'm just going to present what I've learned and how it can help to avoid hostilities and unnecessary arguments.

 

I want to use a few real life examples as well to illustrate, but I want to refrain from finger-pointing at anyone. We all deserve a second chance.

 

I'm hoping that this will help as a useful resource to turn to when in doubt. It has served me well all these years.

[Sithani]

I'm around modders (surprisingly a lot of them are still here) and modding communities for 9 years and it's really easy to observe who's gonna acomplish more when I look at their reactions in their W.I.P threads.

[Cerez]

I'm around modders (surprisingly a lot of them are still here) and modding communities for 9 years and it's really easy to observe who's gonna acomplish more when I look at their reactions in their W.I.P threads.

 

Aside from the point that I've been around for just as long (actually longer), how does this relate to criticism?

 

It's not right to test people's feelings for your own judgement -- if I am reading what you're saying right...

[Sithani]

Well, because every good modder I know is that good because they received critique with straight to the point flaws that needed to be fixed. Simple as that. That's what those people do here as well. I simply don't know what's wrong about it.

Testing people's feelings? I told you I don't want to be hostile towards anyone, it just gets on my nerves that people are making such a big deal over small (actually good) things. Again, wasn't trying to attack you, if you felt that way in both threads then my apologizes.

[Mandalorian]

This thread does seem patronizing. Most of us are adults here.Probably all of us. We have the perspectives and life experience to not be so sensitive. We don't need definitions.

We can take a bit of flak without getting gibbed. 

[Cerez]

It's worth noting that no artwork of mine has ever actually been seriously criticised on this board, and I haven't responded negatively to criticism so far. I've been involved in an immature debate over someone else's work, but that's it. My intention is not to cover for myself -- I have nothing to cover, really. And it would be absurd to go to all this length only to satisfy my own interests.

 

I'm writing this to share my views, invite new ideas, and help to make this community a more pleasant experience for all of us -- without compromising anything other than an attitude of selfish discrimination. I've seen other members suffer, and I don't want such hostilities to happen again. That's why I'm sharing my knowledge and experience here.

[Cerez]

This thread does seem patronizing. Most of us are adults here.Probably all of us. We have the perspectives and life experience to not be so sensitive. We don't need definitions.

 

Why is it patronising? Because it contains information on a difficult topic? Because it doesn't agree with certain views here? What's wrong with providing information on something that not everyone seems to be aware of or understand? How is that patronising? If anything it's showing care and respect for the community. It's the responsible thing to do.

 

I don't get you guys… 

[Cerez]

Well, because every good modder I know is that good because they received critique with straight to the point flaws that needed to be fixed. Simple as that. That's what those people do here as well. I simply don't know what's wrong about it.

Testing people's feelings? I told you I don't want to be hostile towards anyone, it just gets on my nerves that people are making such a big deal over small (actually good) things. Again, wasn't trying to attack you, if you felt that way in both threads then my apologizes.

 

Well, I will certainly need an apology after all this…

 

Can you explain what the "good thing" is here? Is it the ability to criticise? Because if that's what you're worried about then we don't really have anything to argue about in the first place. My objective with this thread is exactly to provide for a means to criticise well and criticise constructively. If that's what you've been doing, then that's perfectly fine. I'm not about to change anything in that regard. Even harsh criticism is fine by me.

 

I'm only writing this information/guide to show how to avoid personal entanglements like the one you and I seem to be hooked into now for I don't know what reason over the general response to someone else's artwork -- I presume. I'm not about to turn everyone into a nice puppy, LOL.

 

I don't know, is that the feeling that you're getting?

 

I'm coming from a professional art background and I'm just trying to teach you guys the proper way to criticism that encourages the artist, and doesn't interfere with their positive experience here and their work.

 

And that includes new people to the community, as well.

[JediBantha]

Why is it patronising? Because it contains information on a difficult topic? Because it doesn't agree with certain views here? What's wrong with providing information on something that not everyone seems to be aware of or understand? How is that patronising? If anything it's showing care and respect for the community. It's the responsible thing to do.

 

I don't get you guys… 

 

Not everyone has an open mind about these kinds of things... 

 

Some people are passive, others are aggressive - Both drastically affect how people express themselves towards others, and how they interpret the information given to them.

[Cerez]

That's exactly why I thought we need a guide. I know from experience that criticism easily leads into hostilities and dispute if it's not handled properly.

 

We all have egos and they are easily bruised.

[Cerez]

This seems like such a chore, I'm not even sure if it's worth the effort.

 

Am I the only one that feels something is not quite right here?

 

The poll responses showed quite a few people felt a similar way, and I know three people who do.

[Xycaleth]

When you make a post that reads like a lecture, some people may get the feeling that you're trying to be over-authoritative which obviously not everyone likes, or that you're assuming none of us already know what constructive criticism is. Especially in writing only, it's hard to get across the right tone that everyone will be fine with.

I don't doubt that you want what's best for the community, nor am I saying I don't disagree that the way people post their criticisms on these forums could be improved on the forums. Perhaps it should be looked at from both sides: improving constructive criticism and also learning to have some leniency where criticism isn't constructive as words alone are one half of communication and ask for the constructive bits if it's lacking.

 

EDIT: PS: Writing a post on a phone sucks

[Cerez]

When you make a post that reads like a lecture, some people may get the feeling that you're trying to be over-authoritative which obviously not everyone likes, or that you're assuming none of us already know what constructive criticism is. Especially in writing only, it's hard to get across the right tone that everyone will be fine with.

 

Well, this is the ideas forum, and what's wrong with presenting a lecture, anyway? Those who feel they know it should just move on. I'm not hammering this into anyone's mind. I'm certainly not a figure of authority in terms of how the board is run, even if I do have considerable experience in such matters.

 

I think the problem lies with people feeling oversensitive about this topic, but that's something that each individual needs to work out for themselves, and there's no use in lashing out at me about that.

 

Everyone needs to be clear with their own conscience. You (in a general sense) can hate me for pointing out any flaws you know you have, but a better action would be to love me for it because that means you can better yourself as a person. There's nothing worse then being one's own slave.

 

Again, if this reads like a lecture, it is because I've gotten to know quite a few people by now through these hostilities who I would like to speak to about this in more detail if I were given the chance.

 

We all need to cool down and look at things from a more objective standpoint. That helps to steer away from personal differences. And that goes quite right for criticism.

 

And every person should be respected for who they are. Ganging up is inappropriate teenage behaviour. We all deserve equal personal rights.

[Barricade24]

I have to admit this thread seems rather...controlling. Now I am all for treating each other with respect and for constructive criticism as well. But we have to understand that we can't control what people say. I think one's ability to handle criticism of any kind is important for any kind of creative work they go in to. Does this mean that members have to be totally cruel about how bad someone's work is? Not at all. But at the same time, criticism should be seen as a way to improve, even if the way someone says it is terrible.

 

Let's try and keep the debates rather clear in this thread.

[Boothand]

I'm not personally seeing that much un-constructive criticism on people's work, except a few recent occasions. Most quarrels seem a bit unrelated to WIP, in my eyes.

 

I'm a bit skeptical to the angle of this approach, mostly because I believe everyone knows what constructive and un-constructive criticism is. Perhaps a misunderstanding could make it seem otherwise, but yeah, I think that's very basic schooling. What Xycaleth said about text and communication is one of the most important factors, as I see it

 

I appreciate the good intentions though! But if this is not meant for everyone, perhaps it could be solved through PM with particular members who'd you like to speak to? I fear otherwise it's more likely to feel a bit lecturing when really it should be more about mutually agreeing to not be a jerk ^^.

 

 

As for criticism itself, I think stating our opinion and giving a proper reasoning for it, gets us a long way!

[Cerez]

Yes, everyone knows everything.

 

Honestly, I don't think I could make a difference even if I tried. Everyone's so dead-set on what they know and so unwilling to listen that there really is no point in me completing this resource anyway.

 

You all know everything. Why bother.

 

That's about as closed a mind as one can get.

 

Well, I speak from much experience when I say that you don't know what you're missing. If this kind of attitude is what you want, then that's what you'll get. I feel sorry for anyone who gets in your way.

 

And Sithani told me to grow up! Open your eyes. Take in the sunlight for a change. Don't be so stubborn in your ways. Don't be sheep.

 

"Never change a thing. Me and my boys are just fine the way we are."

 

Until here comes the landslide. The macho thing won't help you there; you'll need an open mind and wit to survive. And if there's only the four of you, that's hardly enough man-power… Oh wait, you've chased away the mountaineer who had the answer...

[Ping]

In the hope of clarity, there are two points made so far against this project: The first is that we do like to think of ourselves as people who have everything figured out, so when someone comes along and says "you're all acting on bad ideas but I can help fix that", it does seem patronizing and 'controlling'. So although writing a guide on how not to be a dick might be a perfectly fine idea, the way this was introduced in the first three paragraphs just rubs people the wrong way. Starting in the second paragraph by saying that we're all wrong and then saying in the third paragraph that you know it all thanks to your education and are now going to help us remedy our ignorance does remind me a bit of Jehova's Witnesses. This is highly ironic, since the purpose of the entire thing was to teach how to share thoughts without offending others.

 

The second point is that the entire thing is not necessary since whether or not you're going to become a skilled modder (or whathaveyou) depends largely on your own ability to deal with criticism, not so much on your ability to hand it out. In order to improve your craft, you need to correct mistakes, ones that others will have to point out. The modder who recognizes and works on correcting his own mistakes is going to improve in skill, whereas the one that doesn't is not going to improve. The point here is that if your work has flaw xyz and someone makes a statement with the content that your work has flaw xyz, then key to improving as a modder is to recognize and fix flaws xyz. Whether or not the statement is couched in positive or negative language should be irrelevant - if it's legit criticism, i.e. includes pointing out xyz, then this is all that matters. If a modder brushes aside a statement that includes pointing out xyz then he fails to take criticism seriously and so fails to recognize flaw xyz and therefore is going to continue sucking as a modder.

 

On the first point I tend to side with Cerez because I do believe we're all really wrong and really confused on basically everything, so I think it's great if someone wants to open a discussion to get clear on some idea or another (or at least get a bit clearer on it). I don't care about the patronizing tone because I think it's perfectly justified. I do however think that saying something that amounts to "I got it all figured out" is not a very good way to approach this, but I'm willing to look past that.

 

On the second point I do agree with @@Sithani and co. People should be given the opportunity to grow a spine. If someone gives negative feedback that is not devoid of content, then brushing it aside is a failure on your part (and there comes a point where you recognize that some people that are trying to give feedback have no idea what they are talking about, but getting there requires going through a bunch of feedback of varying quality on your own); and really, recognizing that one sucks really hard is a good first step in anyone's quest for improvement. Although I do think we should be nice to each other and that people tend to be very disregarding of feedback if they even so much as smell that you're saying something hurtful, I don't think it's necessary to be China on this topic, censoring people for saying mean things. It's what got us into all that drama last time.

[Sithani]

Does this mean that members have to be totally cruel about how bad someone's work is?

Have you ever seen such a situation on this forums? Well, I haven't. I don't really see a reason to post a lecture how it's done properly. There should be a thread with a lecture how to handle criticism, since not everyone has this ability.

[Cerez]

 

I'm done here. I won't wait around for the last minute insults. Eez or one of the staff will no doubt lock this thread.

 

But the closed attitude here, it's just astounding. So if someone says to you I've found a cure to cancer, you won't listen to what they have to say because you haven't seen any evidence they're a doctor or because they're talking in a patronising tone?

 

[Mandalorian]

When you make a post that reads like a lecture, some people may get the feeling that you're trying to be over-authoritative which obviously not everyone likes, or that you're assuming none of us already know what constructive criticism is. Especially in writing only, it's hard to get across the right tone that everyone will be fine with.

 

 

That's what I mean by patronizing.

[Boothand]

Not sure if your two last replies were in part directed at me, when I said I believe everyone knows what constructive criticism is. I could be wrong. Now I'll do my best to be objective and helpful, and if I fail to do that, please point it out.

 

Please don't end the thread yet. It would be helpful if you responded more precisely to what I said/suggested and what others have contributed with here. It's on topic after all. Don't disregard all of our responses when someone else is saying the thread sucks with no reasoning included.

 

Ok, so many of us have given reasons why we think another approach would be better. I hope you see nothing wrong with that. Now, one thing that objectively should be insulting, is to call people close-minded. I'm not sure which response made you say that, but it would be nice if you pointed it out as well, for clarity. To be clear myself: I don't think you shouldn't write about good and bad criticism, but be mindful of how you angle it and how you think others will read it.

 

If you do have something about constructive criticism that you think most of us are missing out on, I'd be grateful to see that. If it's only about a few people, I suggest PM again - would be nice with a response to that too.

[Onysfx]

The biggest problem in my opinion that applies to criticism (and humanity as a whole), has always been our animals instinct reactions. Actually, almost all of the time that is what causes any kind of flame war on the internet xD.

 

So the solution is simple: Remove the R complex of the brain, and everything will be fine .