Star Wars - The Clone Wars

[hleV]

I guess it depends on what you consider to be Star Wars.

Star Wars has to be good (OT) or at least mediocre (PT). TCW doesn't fall in those categories.

 

You may not feel good about the fact that the show you happened to like actually sucks balls (compared to good or mediocre stuff, if you're not following yet), but that's something you'll have to deal with.

The fact that in the first post you only pointed out the good aspects (according to you, I could easily argue that your points don't prove the show is good) of TCW to proclaim the show as "good" implies that you're actually blinded by your love for SW and can't see how bad it actually is.

[Circa]

As I've stated before in other threads, "good" is an opinion. You can't tell something they are wrong for their opinion. They think it's good. Sure you can be all scientific about it and say the majority of adults think the show isn't as good as the OT, but I bet you could get about the same amount of kids and others to say it's good or even better than the OT.

 

Also, saying that it's not Star Wars is a bit ignorant, at least to use in this argument. It is Star Wars. It's been labeled as official canon. You may hate that fact and establish your own set of canon, but you can't force others to.

 

Just because a general consensus of an opinion is the norm doesn't mean the opposing opinion is wrong. You say it's bad, Ceres says its good. Disagreement happens. Let's move on from this pointless debate on what good and bad is.

[CaptainCrazy]

 

Just because a general consensus of an opinion is the norm doesn't mean the opposing opinion is wrong. You say it's bad, Ceres says its good. Disagreement happens. Let's move on from this pointless debate on what good and bad (and ugly).

[CrimsonStrife]

And Expanded Universe did a similar thing, too. They're all Star Wars, and they are all new angles on essentially the same universe and ever-changing grand story.

 

Disney declared the EU to be non-cannon, and has officially relegated its stories to the "Legends" non-cannon. At this point all that matters are the films, TCW and now Rebels and any future films or spinoffs.

[Sithani]

Also, I don't like the word "sucks". Summing up and entire project that lasted many years to make by saying that it just "sucks" is not really helping anyone's understanding or showing respect for the artists/creators and their efforts on the work.

Lol, but it's perfectly okay to say that prequels suck? And I think a bit more work and effort was put in the making of EP 1-3.

Really the most of people like TCW because it's "Star Wars". Not because it's actually worth watching. It would be a good series if it was a seperate project, non-canon and preferably NOT STAR WARS. It's literally "oh look lightsaber fights, oh look - Anakin turned to the dark side! oh look - Maul is fucking alive and he conquered Mandalore! and again, lightsaber fights! But this time with Yoda/Emperor/Dooku/Stephen Hawking and there are explosions everywhere daaaaamn, I love this story!"

[eezstreet]

Lol, but it's perfectly okay to say that prequels suck? And I think a bit more work and effort was put in the making of EP 1-3.

Really the most of people like TCW because it's "Star Wars". Not because it's actually worth watching. It would be a good series if it was a seperate project, non-canon and preferably NOT STAR WARS. It's literally "oh look lightsaber fights, oh look - Anakin turned to the dark side! oh look - Maul is fucking alive and he conquered Mandalore! and again, lightsaber fights! But this time with Yoda/Emperor/Dooku/Stephen Hawking and there are explosions everywhere daaaaamn, I love this story!"

So basically it's just like the prequels?

I don't think the prequels took as much effort at all. Took more money, sure, but not as much effort. They had to struggle with shooting in very difficult climates (Deserts and blizzard conditions) and actually build the rigs/costumes and transport them across multiple continents. Stormtroopers in the desert were difficult to film in particular due to the heat + being in a costume. Lucas himself had nasty health problems during the filming of Ep4, including severe panic attacks.

 

Now compare that to the prequels, which were all shot in studio with stupidly large budgets and Lucas sitting in a chair the entire time.

 

I can appreciate the art style of Episode 1, but that's about it.

[Sithani]

So basically it's just like the prequels?

I don't think the prequels took as much effort at all. Took more money, sure, but not as much effort. They had to struggle with shooting in very difficult climates (Deserts and blizzard conditions) and actually build the rigs/costumes and transport them across multiple continents. Stormtroopers in the desert were difficult to film in particular due to the heat + being in a costume. Lucas himself had nasty health problems during the filming of Ep4, including severe panic attacks.

 

Now compare that to the prequels, which were all shot in studio with stupidly large budgets and Lucas sitting in a chair the entire time.

 

I can appreciate the art style of Episode 1, but that's about it.

Oh you can see on the documentaries how much work and how many people it involved, especially ROTS. Just watch the process of making Battle of Heroes scene, it's incredible.

[Cerez]

Lol, but it's perfectly okay to say that prequels suck? And I think a bit more work and effort was put in the making of EP 1-3.

@@Sithani, I never said the prequels "suck". I only said that I don't consider them to follow the feelings/themes/concepts of the original trilogy closely enough. They change what was Star Wars, the same way that the Clone Wars series changes it. That doesn't mean that either production can not be enjoyed or loved if the new themes/concepts are closer to one's own experiences and views. That's why expressing things like "everyone who follows this show is a loser" is not a considerate opinion. Everyone has a reason to like as well.

 

Really the most of people like TCW because it's "Star Wars". Not because it's actually worth watching.

That's a very strong opinion, and I happen to disagree; in my personal life I know quite a few adults who love this show and they consider it to be very much Star Wars in every sense. Sure there are weak points -- just like in any other TV series -- but we're willing to overlook these if the rest of the episodes are good. And I find Season 3 onwards really good. Especially Seasons 4 and 5.

 

It's worth noting that Season 6 was not finished / meant to be released. It was released due to popular demand from the fans.

 

In my original post I was mentioning the positive aspects in order to emphasise the good in the series because of the general negative consensus arising from the childish start. Personally, while highly entertaining, I found the plot elements of Darth Maul's survival and the Force beings weak, but the Darth Maul plot didn't impact the story of the films too much (which was good), and he (and Savage) served well to demonstrate the power of Darth Sidious, not as a passive man, but as a cunning, revengeful, hateful, and powerful Sith who trains in secret, and how he deals with those who oppose him. That I liked. It added to all the movies' vision of him as a frightful villain.

 

Also, Ahsoka fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin, tainted and empowered by the Dark Side, in the Force beings episodes was highly entertaining to watch.

 

Disney declared the EU to be non-cannon, and has officially relegated its stories to the "Legends" non-cannon. At this point all that matters are the films, TCW and now Rebels and any future films or spinoffs.

I think that was a rather senseless decision from the Disney management. By what authority are they declaring years of fiction work to be not what it represents? It just goes to show that they have no respect for the fans or moral responsibility for integrity. I stand by and support all those who continue to consider the EU to be official Star Wars as well, and I just can't see why it wouldn't be. No management can take away the stories in our hearts, and them declaring this or that does not change the fact that the EU was based around the themes of Star Wars and its world and characters.

 

Star Wars has to be good (OT) or at least mediocre (PT). TCW doesn't fall in those categories.

 

You may not feel good about the fact that the show you happened to like actually sucks balls (compared to good or mediocre stuff, if you're not following yet), but that's something you'll have to deal with.

The fact that in the first post you only pointed out the good aspects (according to you, I could easily argue that your points don't prove the show is good) of TCW to proclaim the show as "good" implies that you're actually blinded by your love for SW and can't see how bad it actually is.

@@hleV, your intention seems to be to insult and offend me with almost every post you make here. If you have something against me personally, then let's discuss this in a civil manner in private. Otherwise please refrain from insulting anyone who happens to like these series. Your opinion and thoughts are welcome here as long as you don't deliberately offend people.

 

Direct your criticism towards the show, not towards the people who enjoy it. And don't finger-point and insult.

[eezstreet]

I honestly felt like that fight dragged on and on to the point of ridiculousness. All I can remember from ROTS were scenes of that fight, scenes of that fight between Obi Wan and uh that big scary robot dude, scenes of Yoda fighting some people, scenes of that one dogfight in the beginning, and Anakin saying NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the end. I think the whole movie was about fight scenes? I dunno, they really crammed that shit in there.

 

I mean, I guess I can kinda see why people were into fight scenes I guess. I just wasn't emotionally invested in these fights. I know what eventually happens to Obi Wan, I know what eventually happens to Anakin, having watched those movies first. Even if I hadn't though, I didn't find a real grounding with the characters. A lot (and I do mean a lot) of the characters seem like they're bait for back story. Why do we have a cast of characters that recur but don't contribute to the storyline? Mace Windu, Ki-Adu Mundi, and so forth are just..random people tbh.

 

But perhaps I'm rambling.

[Cerez]

I think so too. What's interesting is that CW fills in a lot of these gaps, and tells more about the personalities, backgrounds, and stories of these brief characters who die to soon in the prequels.

 

Granted, the action sequences are a lot better, but the story execution feels like it was just glanced over in the prequels and I find it actually quite immature (the relationships have no realistic development/binding; they are too brief), even more so than in the CW series -- which I find quite mature compared to ROTS, for example.

 

That's what surprised me about the CW series. I didn't like the prequels because of the lack of emotional investment, and the series actually really drew me in towards the last 3-4 seasons.

 

I felt they were much more in line with the original trilogy in this sense.

[CrimsonStrife]

I think that was a rather senseless decision from the Disney management. By what authority are they declaring years of fiction work to be not what it represents? It just goes to show that they have no respect for the fans or moral responsibility for integrity. I stand by and support all those who continue to consider the EU to be official Star Wars as well, and I just can't see why it wouldn't be. No management can take away the stories in our hearts, and them declaring this or that does not change the fact that the EU was based around the themes of Star Wars and its world and characters.

 

 

Well considering they own it, they have the authority to do whatever they want with it.  Like it or not, they could reboot the entire universe and we could do nothing but protest.  And technically speaking, Lucas never officially declared a large portion of the EU to be "cannon" he just never called it "non-cannon" either, so really the odds are they aren't evening getting much protest from the man himself.  All the EU authors did was license the content to work with, which unfortunately doesn't give them the legal creative rights to make their stories matter in the continuity.

 

Now my understanding is, they aren't outright throwing the content away, but are instead establishing a "Legends" timeline, that will essentially be a separate cannon, that runs parallel to whatever they declare to be the true, primary story.

[therfiles]

Personally, I wasn't a big fan of the decision to do away with the EU, but from a story telling standpoint: it's essential. In order to give Disney the storytelling freedom and power that it really needed to "reboot" the franchise, it needed to have no constraints on it, whatsoever. Once I understood that, I saw it as a sad event, but a necessary one that cleared the path for a new epic installment in the franchise.

 

I never had a chance to see Star Wars in theaters. I can't wait to see 7 on the big screen. It just wouldn't be the same, even with excellent source material, such as Zahn's work.

[Lamented]

Watch Mr. Plinkett's review of Episodes I & II--funny and totally agreeable.

 

I thought Revenge of the Sith was great, though.

[Cerez]

Well considering they own it, they have the authority to do whatever they want with it.  Like it or not, they could reboot the entire universe and we could do nothing but protest. 

 

Oh, pish posh! They can't make a story invalid in a believer's heart. That's the magic of fiction. They can say this is official, and that's not, but it doesn't really mean anything. In the end it is all very closely based on Star Wars and as such it is an authentic Star Wars experience -- whether official or not.

[NumberWan]

I couldn't find a topic about the Clone Wars series (it's over after all). But I think people might find it interesting, that there is some material regarding the unrelated episodes of Seasons 6 (or 7).

Click here to see concept art and videos here

 

The already known story about Ventress and Vos is depicted in a video as well as pictures. The arc with them seems to be taking place on Pantora, a planet seen earlier in previous seasons.

 

It also features Cad Bane and Boba, also a rumored story. 

 

Personally I like th digital painting done there, and concept art.

[Cerez]

I knew it!!! I knew they had intended to continue Ahsoka's story in Coruscant's underworld! I had actually started writing a piece of fan-fiction called "Ahsoka's Adventures in the Underworld," that deals with the 5 months she had spent living and surviving in what I'd call Coruscant's less than shiny districts, on her own. Love the new outfit, too!

 

Also, that new Quinlan Vos outfit looks great!

 

Man, why did they have to kill the show??! No fair!

 

Edit: Hahaha! The Ventress/Vos scene is awesome, too! Wow, thanks for sharing this, @@NumberWan! This made my day!

[NumberWan]

@Cerez

I did like the idea of seeing Pantora streets, the old forgotten Sith temple on Coruscant (deep below the surface, almost under the current Jedi Temple) and other things. The scene with Dooku and Boba Fett was a good one. I do know, why Boba and Bane travelled to Tatooine, that was strange, to tell the truth. I mean, tusken raiders wanted an outsider in their deeds? Phhhhh...

 

As for Yuzhan Vong - the most disputed creatures in Star Wars. I've never treated them anyhow as anything important to SW, though they caused much trouble. But seeing the Yuzhan Vong drone in the Clone Wars, where their spy was gathering info on the Galaxy and the Jedi... Well, it was a nice move, but somehow I am glad, they Yuzhan Vong don't mean much any longer.

[Onysfx]

@@NumberWan

 

Oh my god, so much content, WHY DIDN'T THEY FINISH THIS .

[Cerez]

@@Onysfx

Money money money... makes the world go round...

 

The new execs wanted a new story. It's a crying shame. I just love it how they are ensuring the success of Rebels by tempting us with fragments from the Clone Wars characters and their stories included in the new series...

 

I have nothing against Rebels, but it didn't have to be this way... And it's a big loss...

 

I do [not] know, why Boba and Bane travelled to Tatooine, that was strange, to tell the truth. I mean, tusken raiders wanted an outsider in their deeds? Phhhhh...

 

Knowing Bane, it would have been a part of one of his unconventional and complex plans. He would have tempted them for a specific purpose, and probably going after a way bigger prize in the big picture.

 

Pantora, Ventress, Quinlan, Boba, Ahsoka... there is so much content and creative ideas here. This show was ended way too prematurely. One of their best seasons was their last season completed (5).

 

Rebels may be its own fun, but unfortunately it's not a replacement for The Clone Wars experience...

[NumberWan]

@Onysfx

I would agree with Cerez, the era of Clone Wars and the prequels ended, it's now the classic trilogy rules time. Look at the games for instance. The mobile ones are mostly about the Civil War. New Battlefront will cover the same epoch (including Jakku). It's not that surprising: when Episode I was released, they "juiced" the new era the way could: TPM video game, Obi Wan video game, Racer, Battle for Naboo, Galactic Battlegrounds (1) among many others. This is happening now, besides Star Wars have been very quite regarding games in the last 5+ years.

 

@Cerez

I also think, they've started to understand, what was essential in the story. I mean not the principal plot, but rather important details. For the most episodes you can read quite a legend of what is seen in the background for instance. In Ahsoka Tano's arc there is a large brown monument right in front of the Republic base, with large clone troopers statues. It is interesting, that it's part of a Geonosian rock, cut on the planet after the first battle - it was used to create a memorial to those, who perished at the battle of Geonosis three years prior.

 

They've added Selkath, which ties the original Star Wars and KOTOR - that they actually took place in one Galaxy. Seeing a Lutrillian was quite a good move towards the Original Trilogy. And for the R2 arc they even re-created an Aqualish, known prior as a Walrus man and an action figure by Kenner in 1970-1980s. KOTOR also followed this path by the way, adding both original images (Tatooine, radians, droids) and new ones (Manaan, Paaerduag, Rakatas).

 

As for Cad Bane - they actually told us why he was traveling to Tatooine.

 

Tusken raiders were looking for a strong bounty hunter to hunt a Jedi, who killed the dwellers of one of the tribes three years prior. The new leader of tuskens wants revenge and seeks a bounty hunter who would be capable to capture this Jedi. Bane and Boba join other mercs, as they pass the trials of tusken raiders. Surely they refer to Anakin here, but it doesn't minimize, why Tuskens would contact outlanders at all!

 

[Cerez]

I'm guessing the plot was still in development, or it could have been a weaker episode. We all know The Clone Wars had those, too -- I'm looking at you, Mortis episodes.

 

I'm sure Rebels will get better as time goes on, but I still feel it will never truly replace The Clone Wars. The ironic thing here is that I didn't actually like the prequel movies, and therefore wasn't interested in The Clone Wars series at first, yet what Dave's team did was true creative magic in that it captured my heart despite the fact that I didn't like the prequel plot and characters at all to begin with. I think it takes a rare gift and chance -- creative genius -- to achieve that.

 

Personally, I won't miss the prequel era so much, but I will miss the themes and stories of The Clone Wars for a long time to come, I believe. A fan forever.

[NumberWan]

@@Cerez

I couldn't agree more on Mortis. It's one of the episodes arc I always skipped, if I rewatched TCW. I would have changed the concept of Son and Daughter. While he looks more or less like a Force deity of sort, his sister reminds constantly of some doll, anime school girl or even Cameron Diaz from Being John Malkovich. Why would such a being use these strange garments?

 

Meanwhile they published even more episodes from the cancelled seasons. Bad Watch, featuring new characters and the operation Anaxes. I see Wat Tambor there, so he must have left the prison on Coruscant somehow!

[Cerez]

 http://www.starwars.com/video/the-bad-batch-star-wars-the-clone-wars-story-reel

 

What a great episode! I can't believe it got canned...

[NumberWan]

I got a bit confused as which episode was the first to watch. So it seems, that the right order is

-The Bad Batch

-A Distant Echo

-On the Wings of Keeradaks

-Unfinished Business

 

This story arc takes place after the Big Bang episode. It's a wonder the new clones here look different due to genetic enhancements. To me they are just very new beings, like the clones from other subjects, as it was stated in the EU previously.

 

These episodes also introduce yet another character to wear glasses/goggles in Star Wars Universe.

 

This new team of clones 99 remind me of the troopers, created for later stages, when the clones would become useless for the Empire as well. After the fall of the Empire these would eliminate the former loyal troopers of the Republic.

[Lamented]

The Tusken Raiders want to hunt Anakin for murdering their kin.