Dusty's Patch: An SP mod for JA

[Dusty]

So, anyone have any feedback for the couple of mods so far?

[Dusty]

Some more NPC AI things I've been working on that I've yet to test, or that I plan to do and think I can do:

• NPCs shouldn't default to "Heavy Melee" now (the punches that do 25-30+ damage), but only Chewie, Class_Gran, and Class_Trandoshan get it now, and non-heavy melee users should punch faster now
• Grenadiers that have melee should try to punch you if you get really close to them now even if your saber is out
• Imperial commanders and class_rodian + e11 using alt-fire
• Allied NPCs don't get higher game difficulty bonuses to HP like enemies do now, only on lower difficulties
• NPCs that are "smarter" with surrendering and less awkward about it
• Allied NPCs that don't attack surrendering enemies
• Saber-wielders that semi-evade if they're saber is mid-flight or run for it if you've disarmed their saber
• blaster/melee npcs with class_reborn not doing cartwheels unless they have at least force jump 1
• melee force user NPCs using force push on throwables and auto-dodging sniper shots just like saber wielders

[katanamaru]

That all sounds fantastic! I really need to get back into JA soon.

[Archangel35757]

Would be awesome if there was a saber catch mechanism for when they throw a lightsaber at you. Then you could become a dual wielder.

[Rooxon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's kinda impossible, is it not? I think you couldn't make a thrown saber, spinning towards you, get caught in your hand. Well first off for obvious reasons, an all-cutting blade flying towards you, and you'd miraculously be ably to catch the hilt each time? Don't think so. Maybe this would be nice if JKA was a duel-fighting game. The other thing I thought about are the restrictions in the game itself, it would look either childish or unappealing anyway. Not to mention the mountain of bugs that could come with such an addon.

[Archangel35757]

On the contrary.... I think it would be quite foolish to throw your saber at a force-user opponent. It would simply play a different animation on the saber so that you catch the hilt (as if you had thrown it)-- assuming you successfully won the force fight over the "airborne" saber... and succeeded in "stealing" it. This would require coding changes of course to implement.

 

You can "force-pull" a (projectile) weapon to you now and switch to using it... can't you? Then why not sabers also? If it's too complicated to code stealing it out of the air while in flight... perhaps at least it can be stolen if you knock it to the ground... then it'd be up for grabs.

[Rooxon]

Well yes, a great deal of effort is needed. Though I do seem to recall playing a mod once in the old days, where you could pick up sabers from defeated opponents and use them, though after you ended the level, you were back to using your own one. Now with the source code I think pretty much everything is possible IN THEORY. 

I agree with the first part, though, now that I think about it. It would really be foolish to throw your saber against someone who can wield the force. Why haven't we thought about this sooner? I say something HAS to be done regarding this! It would also solve the pesky problem I'm coming to terms with my WeaponsHD, I've given return damage to some of my sabers and you're able to kill pretty much anyone in SP even on Master level because of this. It is clever, though there just has to be a way to counter this, otherwise, it's unfair. A saber-catching mechanism you proposed would solve it perfectly!

[Dusty]

^Interesting idea, but out of my own abilities to code. Sabers are sort of possessed by whoever it belongs to and act as the active weapon even mid-flight. That's why you can't really switch to melee in MP when your saber throw is disarmed. Unless the saber's possession could be "deactivated" code-wise and then the "pick up" code that g_saberpickupabledroppedsabers uses could be used to "grab it".

 

Saber throws are interesting though for duels but could use a little work. I feel like NPCs just need to not sit there dumbfounded when you knock their saber throws down or rush them after they throw it. Also, ideally the player shouldn't be able to be too cheap with it either.

 

Saber throws in JA/JK2 in general are more of the spammy sort. In BFII the throw was more realistic IMO where it was powerful but it had more a boomerang likeness and high-speed momentum but required more skill to aim. While I like it roughly how it is in the JK games, I feel like it should have a smidge more power and speed, but be less like "lulz eat saber" and act like a rebounding pinball, and therefore a little less quick and cheap. Just an idea. Not sure what it would really look like though. What you guys think?

 

On a side note, for return damage to be an allowable skill, I think NPCs would need to be able to cheat and be able to block it from behind except in maybe some special situations. Or perhaps return damage would be allowable if the saber throw was given more of a boomerang dynamic but wasn't so easy to aim nor has such a "rapid-fire" mechanic.

 

Idea: Maybe disarmed sabers could be "picked up" mid-fight. Like if you knock an enemy's saber out of their hand (from a saber throw, strong attack, parry etc.), you could grab it and use it for the remainder of the level? But then some enemies would become defenseless...

[Rooxon]

What's more, I've seen you do animation changes. If I take a good look at the saber throw animation, the player just kinda straightens it's arm, I don't see any throw really, yet the saber launches from you at quite the speed. A bit anoying I think, could you do something concerning that? Other than this, I plan on including a few script addons for JKA regarding sabers on my own for my WeaponsHD, concerning the saber throws also. We could talk a bit and work out our plans so that we don't both work on the same things! Also, I'm availible for help if you ever need something.

[Archangel35757]

On activating "force-catch/force-pull" on the in-flight saber... Maybe the code could be changed to cause the saber to stop in mid-flight, kinda like tumble in-place, while you versus the opponent fight like a saber lock over the airborne saber... like a force-tug-of-war.

 

Edit: If you're winning the force-fight then the hilt is toward you for catching... if you're losing... the saber blade is pointed at you... and perhaps jerking in your direction with each flip. So you could catch it or accelerate your death-- depending on whether you win the force fight.

 

Edit2: Depending on force powers and current force levels the "force-fight" could be immediately won or lost with only a slight hiccup in saber trajectory... which might even be provided by switching the ownership and saber animation.

 

@@DT85, @@eezstreet, @@Xycaleth @@Raz0r -- care to join the discussion?

[McGroose]

Well yes, a great deal of effort is needed. Though I do seem to recall playing a mod once in the old days, where you could pick up sabers from defeated opponents and use them, though after you ended the level, you were back to using your own one. Now with the source code I think pretty much everything is possible IN THEORY. 

 

Are you referring to the Escape Yavin IV mod?

http://jediknight3.filefront.com/file/Escape_Yavin_IV_The_Lost_Maps;58958

In this mod, you are able to pick up and use the saber of every enemy you kill, from Reborns to Desann to other bosses.

After you collected a new saber, your lightsaber inventory screen would add the additional optional of said saber to the list. When a new level started, you were free to choose a different saber that you've already discovered. It was both a great and innovative concept for a SP mod, but I remember having a difficult time trying to setup the saber system to work properly. Now, as for picking up sabers after someone throws one at you, that'll be a lot more trickier.

 

I have my own little request for your mod: is it possible that you could replace a few of the cultist NPCs with the Cultist Commandos?

They're a good and difficult challenge, but are never actually used in game, which is a waste of such a well programmed NPC. I think they would fit places like Coruscant and Tanaab well.

[Rooxon]

@@McGroose Yes, that was the mod I've played. Now I remember it a bit better! So this is also quite a nice idea, that players could make collections of picked-up sabers and than before each level choose which they want to use. For this, we could also use the standard saber selection screen, we'd just need to make the list of the sabers variable or better explained, the list would need to consist out of the 1 saber the player has chosen to play with and EVERY saber the player has picked up at least once. It would also be nice to add if a saber has been picked up 2 times, it would appear in the dual-wielding menu twice, else only once. As for the Commando, I've seen them during the SP, cultists using guns. If you meant that they schould appear more, well in that case your wish gets a much bigger picture. Maybe we could work on it for JK:Enhanced, though let's not forget this is still @ 's topic so you'll need to wait for his answer.

But maybe I'm a bit quick to think ahead like that, let's stay at the saber-catch mechanism. I like what @@Archangel35757 proposed, though we gotta take into account the real time in-game. We can't make such tug-of-wars too time consuming, it all needs to happen in like a second or two. Two is already a bit long, actually, because well, think. If two jedis really would mash the buttons longer, realistically speaking, anyone could shoot them to the forhead or in the case of another jedi enemy, cut them down where they stand WITH EASE.

@ I have another question. Would it be possible to add breathing animations for a standing player? I saw them being used in the cutscene before Rosh and Jaden fight, Jaden is clearly breathing there and I've been thinking about this because the game as it is feels a bit dead. Liveless. Just like a game from it's time, which is now quite old already, 11 years if I'm not mistaken. And on another account, a nicer, more realitic walking animation would be nice too, now from time to time it seems like the player does move his feet but is partially floating around. Kinda anoying for videos and such things.

[Dusty]

Let me just say, for me any sort of saber throw possession battle or saber catching mechanism is well out of my ability to code. It would have to be eezstreet or Razor or some other experienced coder if you want an idea how feasible it is. I already had help from @@redsaurus coding some more tricky things, like having to aim blaster deflections with the crosshair, save game screenshots, and saber force lightning block effects.

 

About the saber inventory thing, there's two commands in SP related to picking up sabers. One is g_saber. This is/are the saber(s) that are saved as belonging to the player. You can use "playermodel x" to change your saber, or the saber command, but I'm not sure if they actually change the value of g_saber (i.e. I know playermodel doesn't change the value of g_model so if you don't change that too when you load the game later you'll have an untextured model). Then there's g_pickupabledroppedsabers. I think the Yavin IV mod just turned that on then did some clever menu stuff to keep track of sabers so you could gather up an inventory of them. Either way pretty clever and cool.

 

For breathing animations I don't know what that would look like... maybe they could be ripped from the cutscene... as for the feet sliding and rollerblading in JA, I noticed in JK2 the run animations were more accurate, and in JA no matter what I did to the animation.cfg the animation speeds wouldn't change. What I found was a cvar in JA called cg_noFootSlide or something like that. If you turn it off the run (and walk?) animations are sped up. There's other cvars relating to this too but I'm not sure how they all work.

[Rooxon]

I see, so to sum it up, it's good that we all started talking about this, let's see what DT85, eezstreet and the others have to say first, maybe they see some possibilities of their own. 

@ I meant more like a constant animation rolling alongside the _humanoid.gla animations. So that no matter if you run, walk, stand still, the players chest moves a little bit up and down, just enough to make it seem like the character breathes. If I'm not mistaken the breathing graphics (hot air from mouth) are already built in, it'd need to be synced with that. Just tell me if that would be possible, I know that you'd need to change each and every animation frame by hand if we'd use the _humanoid.gla

[Dusty]

No one has really given me any feedback .

 

Next mods I will work on I think:

- Independent release for Reborn Apprentice skin

- Lightning visual effects

- Menu mods

[Archangel35757]

That's if they get the new skeleton finished. It hasn't been worked on in awhile I don't think. I can give you some stuff to work on if you'd like.

The new skeleton is still a work-in-progress... I'm working on the Jan Ors head which I will use for the new facial/lip-sync rig. I know DT has been working on the skeleton regarding the body-- but I have a suggestion:

 

@@DT85 @@eezstreet -- instead of adding cape/cloak bones directly into the base skeleton... maybe they could be bolted on as a cape_robe.gla like @@eezstreet plans to do the new face (where the face.gla inherits the head bone transforms). Maybe a cape_robe.gla would get transforms from upper spine, or neck?

[Tempust85]

You'd still need to animate the cape bones though.

[Archangel35757]

You'd still need to animate the cape bones though.

True... you'd have to animate it thru all of the animations (or let the cloak bones be clothFX driven) but I think it would be cleaner to have it be a cape_robe.gla, no?

 

@@DT85 is there a single bone from humanoid that serves as parent to your cape/robe bone hierarchy?

[Tempust85]

The thoracic.

[katanamaru]

I've added breathing to the stances before. You make a stance or take one of the default ones and make it three frames. Next you go to the middle frame and 1.raise the thoraic one unit, 2. lower the head one unit, 3. open the clavicals one unit. Then set the animation to loop and play at 1 fps in the animation.cfg. Now the character will breath while standing still. Adding it to other animations isn't possible or practical. 

 

As for the feet floating I've noticed that the animations for running are slower in JA than in JO. So you can speed up their animations in the animation.cfg. I was going to do this, but when I set my character to use g_speed 200 the animations linked up for the slower movement.

[Dusty]

I've added breathing to the stances before. You make a stance or take one of the default ones and make it three frames. Next you go to the middle frame and 1.raise the thoraic one unit, 2. lower the head one unit, 3. open the clavicals one unit. Then set the animation to loop and play at 1 fps in the animation.cfg. Now the character will breath while standing still. Adding it to other animations isn't possible or practical. 

 

As for the feet floating I've noticed that the animations for running are slower in JA than in JO. So you can speed up their animations in the animation.cfg. I was going to do this, but when I set my character to use g_speed 200 the animations linked up for the slower movement.

 

What Roxoon suggested is practical I think, you just need coding. It could be hard coded that at all/most times the player's bones will fluctuate by a unit or two for breathing, or at least I imagine that would be possible.

 

As for the running speeds, in JA they're hardcoded to match up with the run speed of the character or something. Changing the animation.cfg won't do anything by itself. Trying playing with the g_nofootslide and g_footslidescale cvars or whatever they're called. (or is it cg_? I can't remember off hand)

 

EDIT:

As for other updates, the saber system is nearing completion. Not bug-free though. I'm also making a little progress with some of the AI stuff. Figuring out why certain things don't work though is proving tricky.

[Dusty]

I like the melee idea. Be careful if you have them knock the player back. It would be a bad idea tactically to be close enough to punch a Jedi only to knock him out of attacking ranch, but have them able to be in range with their saber. 

On the flip side you don't want to knock the player down every time. So a variable or random number might be a good idea here.

 

Yeah, knockdown or stagger is probably better.

[Dusty]

So, I need some suggestions. I'm not quite sure how to handle saber staff in the new saber system or how to do special attacks. In base SP staff is pretty overpowered because it hits as hard as strong style. And special attacks are a little tricky in the new system. Also, on the whole, I'm trying to follow the motto of keeping things relatively simple and not too drastic as far as changes go from the default system.

 

What I have so far:

Staff

- Attack strength is properly tied to staff style now, as opposed to the saber hilt having the twoHanded property.

- Staff style is power level 4 (medium is 3, red/desann is 5, medium is your offense level + 0, red is +2 for example), I figure the wide two-handed palms-down motions of staff would add a little more gusto to the attacks

- Staff does damage during transitions like strong/desann

 

Special Attacks

- have power level 5 strength

- rather than adding to a break counter like standard attacks they act a little different

- if the attack is strong enough, it breaks their defense out right

- otherwise the attack is blocked

 

Maybe... special attacks cause a longer stagger than other moves. And they react to being blocked differently than a standard attack. Ideally I don't want them to be too cheap (I want regular slashes to be important), but I want them to still be useful. Any ideas?
 

[katanamaru]

Maybe if the special is blocked it could send the opponent flying backward and knock them down. That way they are a little vulnerable, but able to roll to avoid attacks.

Or set it that if the first couple of hits land this happens, but if the last few hits have more breakthrough defense power.

 

The idea being that if you special an opponent they have to do a hail-mary dodge to avoid it, but if they run into it they are in big trouble.

[Dusty]

Big-picture wise, I think I will keep specials roughly as they are (the it-breaks or it-doesn't type deal), and then later on play testing more differences can be ironed out.

 

Otherwise...

 

I think you're on to something with the multiple hit thing though. This would make sense for katas and moves like the staff and duals saber twirls. Perhaps blocking these attacks would act kind of like pseudo-blocking strong style in the normal saber system as in, the defender's guard would not be crushed and they would be able to technically parry/block, but the attacker would not actually be interrupted at all, so the defender only can completely defend glancing blows, but a solid hit still powers through.

 

Other thoughts:

Do special attacks need an extra advantage, or is the "offense level + 1" combined with a few small unique properties enough? (I think it is because you don't want normal swings to be too much weaker).

 

Should different special attacks act largely the same as each other like they do in base? Or should different attacks have different properties such as damage, guard-breaking ability, etc.?